vpFREE2 Forums

Moving to Shangri-La, er, hell on earth: it's been interesting

I got a kick out of the firestorm my post(s) started. I certainly
didn't have any intention of changing anybody's opinion about Las
Vegas; how likely was that to happen? The people who have moved here-
-especially if that involved a major commitment of some kind--aren't
likely to admit (even to themselves) that the Land Of Free Money and
Endless Fun hasn't turned out to be all it was cracked up to be.
Anyone else--visitors of one stripe or another--doesn't count, as
many of the Vegas negatives I relate: corrupt politics, bad schools,
inadequate services and infrastructure, don't come into play until
you actually LIVE here.

I will reiterate my opinion--and of COURSE it's only my opinion--
that living here carries insidious negatives that may not be
apparent to anyone who doesn't live here (hell--they're not apparent
to many people who DO live here). These were merely the sort of
things I would tell a friend who was thinking of moving here. If I
sounded negative, it's because I didn't NEED to act Chamber-Of-
Commerce and repeat all the reasons, real and illusory, of why Vegas
is such a wonderful place to be. I actually agree with some of those
rationales; for instance, I am a night person, and in that regard I
find it easier to live here than elsewhere. The trouble is, there
are too many associated costs.

The bottom line is that Vegas allows you to discard inhibitions; to
act like a child; to be irresponsible (at least as long as the
pension checks keep coming). In that regard it's useful as the adult
Disneyland; a place to blow off steam. But no one should spend their
entire LIVES in Disneyland.

It's telling when you read the post from (I forget whom) earlier on
this thread that they intended to play VP every day and spend their
kid's inheritance, nyahh, nyahh. It's their money, they can do what
they want with it. I totally agree with that. You can do what you
want with what's yours. Selfishness and self-absorption are far from
against the law. There is nothing wrong with sending this message to
the world in general, and your children in particular. Hopefully,
you can time things so that when you die, all that your children
inherit is a stack of unpaid utility bills and all your old slot
cards. Now, THAT'S a Vegas attitude! If you think that way, then
there's no better place for you to be than here!

And BTW, anybody who thinks they can play VP twenty or more hours a
week without being a potential addict, is fooling themselves.
EVERYBODY thinks they can simply play as much as they want, or as
little as they want. But then--you start putting aside other
activities to play VP. You truncate your social life. You stay and
play longer than you had intended. It's insidious.....

Kevin,

You are making an assumption that is completely unwarranted. One of the reasons it is difficult to simply move here and get a job is that many employers won't consider hiring someone who has not lived here for at least a year or two. The reason is simple -- a very large percentage of people who move here leave within the first two years. The reasons are many including separation from family, the climate in the summer, insane and drunk drivers, temptations of the casinos, low salaries and many more. So in fact a significant portion of "the people who have moved here" (I believe it is somewhere around 40 - 50%) are quite likely to admit that LV hasn't turned out to be all it was cracked up to be. Unlike you, they then leave.

···

At 04:16 AM 08/29/2003 +0000, you wrote:

I got a kick out of the firestorm my post(s) started. I certainly
didn't have any intention of changing anybody's opinion about Las
Vegas; how likely was that to happen? The people who have moved here-
-especially if that involved a major commitment of some kind--aren't
likely to admit (even to themselves) that the Land Of Free Money and
Endless Fun hasn't turned out to be all it was cracked up to be.
Anyone else--visitors of one stripe or another--doesn't count, as
many of the Vegas negatives I relate: corrupt politics, bad schools,
inadequate services and infrastructure, don't come into play until
you actually LIVE here.

You are making an assumption that is completely unwarranted. One of
the reasons it is difficult to simply move here and get a job is
that many employers won't consider hiring someone who has not lived
here for at least a year or two.

It has been my experience that ANYBODY can get a job in this town
with comparatively minimal effort. Granted, it may not carry instant
major medical benefits, three weeks of vacation time, and day care
for all the kids--but it WILL keep the boat afloat until our hero
(ine) finds something better. Yes, if you hold out for CEO and are
unwilling to hire on as file clerk, you may starve. Just like
anywhere else.

The reason is simple -- a very large percentage of people who move
here leave within the first two years. The reasons are many
including separation from family, the climate in the summer, insane
and drunk drivers, temptations of the casinos, low salaries and many
more. So in fact a significant portion of "the people who have
moved here" (I believe it is somewhere around 40 - 50%) are quite
likely to admit that LV
hasn't turned out to be all it was cracked up to be.

Reread your statement---as long as we take your "percentage" to be
less than 50%, you are actually agreeing with me (horrors).

Unlike you, they then leave.

I actually DID leave in 1988. I can also see how a given person
might not have been ABLE to leave. Moving costs several thousand
dollars. Whatever reserves existed may have been used on getting to
Vegas in the first place. There are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people
who are "stuck" here (i.e., they would like to leave, but they
can't). Those are the people you see giving bad service in
restaurants, banks, government offices, etc. Why? Because they feel
they were lied to about what Vegas was, and about the opportunities
it offered.

And as I'm sure you're aware, there are those who relocate here with
ample funds, but after the casinos get through with them, they don't
have enough spare cash to buy a dozen doughnuts. I don't know what's
sadder in this case--the people who are crushed and broken, but
can't leave, or the people who believe they were just "unlucky" and
want to STAY to build up enough cash to take another crack at the
casinos.

I made my stash in the late 90s while it was still possible to do
so. It is now not possible any longer. It would be a great
disservice--a crime IMHO--for me to write a book implying this still
could be done. Advantage VP playing is like card counting--a thing
of the past.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby@c...> wrote:

Kevin,

<<It would be a great
disservice--a crime IMHO--for me to write a book implying this still
could be done. Advantage VP playing is like card counting--a thing
of the past.>>

Gee, should I tell the people who are successfully doing this to stop? I would have a hard time finding them all since many keep a low profile. However some I could spot pretty quickly since they would be the ones smiling in the bank line with a deposit slip in hand.

But don't stop posting. You could probably single-handedly help advantage VP more than my books since the more people that decide it isn't for them, the more likely there will be more machines left for the rest of us.

I now make a vow to never post on this subject ever again. God, I hope I can keep this vow.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can NOW
be ordered, autographed, at a pre-pub
discount, at http://www.FrugalGambler.biz

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...>
wrote:

<<It would be a great
disservice--a crime IMHO--for me to write a book implying this

still

could be done. Advantage VP playing is like card counting--a thing
of the past.>>

Gee, should I tell the people who are successfully doing this to

stop? I would have a hard time finding them all since many keep a
low profile.

  However some I could spot pretty quickly since they would be the
ones smiling in the bank line with a deposit slip in hand.

Ha. I know more "pros" than you do. Most of them are standing in
welfare lines, not bank lines. They got stretched too thin playing
marginal EV games when the 103% .25 games were no longer possible.

OK, I amend my statement. It is possible, by playing PERFECTLY on
one of the few .25 FPDW machines remaining, to THEORETICALLY earn
$7/hour (based on a high speed of 800 hands/hour, and, once again,
NO errors). The only time one can even approach breakeven at higher
denominations is to play something like 10/7 DB, NSUD, etc. and rely
on cashback or promos to provide a (slim) profit. And even the
abovementioned possibilities are disappearing rapidly; they will be
gone within a year, I predict.

And BTW, is anybody going to admit to you, "Yeah, Jean, I've been
getting the crap kicked out of me; my bankroll's shot," when they
had heretofore regaled friends and family about how they were a
brilliant studly genius who beat the helpless casinos out of tens of
thousands by the sheer brilliance of his/her mind? Not bloody likely!

mk1 I have to think that you're being a bit cynical; sure, none of us
can play like a robot and get everything right all of the time, but
even I (who's no expert) can consistently play at a 100.5% return
level on FPDW at a really good clip. Is it a way to earn a living?
No, certainly not for me, but if the casinos can pay me over the long
haul (and yes, I know all about the variance issues, and seen them in
action) to have a good time I'm not complaining. Even games like
10/7 DB can be played to at least some advantage without absolute
perfection, especially with cashback and the right comps. So even
though it might not be a way to make a living for most, advantage VP
does exist for those of us who have realistic expectations about
the "advantage" :slight_smile:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...>
wrote:
> <<It would be a great
> disservice--a crime IMHO--for me to write a book implying this
still
> could be done. Advantage VP playing is like card counting--a

thing

> of the past.>>
>
> Gee, should I tell the people who are successfully doing this to
stop? I would have a hard time finding them all since many keep a
low profile.

  However some I could spot pretty quickly since they would be the
ones smiling in the bank line with a deposit slip in hand.

Ha. I know more "pros" than you do. Most of them are standing in
welfare lines, not bank lines. They got stretched too thin playing
marginal EV games when the 103% .25 games were no longer possible.

OK, I amend my statement. It is possible, by playing PERFECTLY on
one of the few .25 FPDW machines remaining, to THEORETICALLY earn
$7/hour (based on a high speed of 800 hands/hour, and, once again,
NO errors). The only time one can even approach breakeven at higher
denominations is to play something like 10/7 DB, NSUD, etc. and

rely

on cashback or promos to provide a (slim) profit. And even the
abovementioned possibilities are disappearing rapidly; they will be
gone within a year, I predict.

And BTW, is anybody going to admit to you, "Yeah, Jean, I've been
getting the crap kicked out of me; my bankroll's shot," when they
had heretofore regaled friends and family about how they were a
brilliant studly genius who beat the helpless casinos out of tens

of

thousands by the sheer brilliance of his/her mind? Not bloody

likely!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mkl54321" <mkl54321@y...> wrote: