vpFREE2 Forums

Mickey Crimm

#1

I watched the video of Shack talking about slot machines. It wasn't very clear--did I miss something? He states that as soon as you hit the bet button (or pull the handle) the RNG selects the outcome for each reel and the corresponding symbols appear on the screen. However, he repeatedly says that the machine's EPROM chip determines what payback % the machine is set at, and the Casino Manager can change that chip at will.

So, if a machine is set to pay back at a 96% rate for instance, how then can there also be a true RNG at work that randomly selects numbers with corresponding symbols? It's either a RNG or it isn't.

···

----- Reply message -----
From: "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Mickey Crimm
Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2012 12:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCf79SyXVHw

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

His stories are "OK", but I would be interested in a book about 'current'

advantage slots ( not historical or burned out plays ). There

is an AS subculture that keeps real quiet about whats happening and what to

look for.

my 2 cents...Tom

----- Original Message -----

From: "Luke Fuller" <kungalooosh@...>

document.write(""); var YWATracker = YWA.getTracker("10001615631662");YWATracker.submit(); TODAY(Beta) •

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#2

Best video poker question I have ever seen. And I am no fan of Singer.

···

On 8/19/2012 6:40 PM, rob.singer1111@yahoo.com wrote:

I watched the video of Shack talking about slot machines. It wasn't very clear--did I miss something? He states that as soon as you hit the bet button (or pull the handle) the RNG selects the outcome for each reel and the corresponding symbols appear on the screen. However, he repeatedly says that the machine's EPROM chip determines what payback % the machine is set at, and the Casino Manager can change that chip at will.

So, if a machine is set to pay back at a 96% rate for instance, how then can there also be a true RNG at work that randomly selects numbers with corresponding symbols? It's either a RNG or it isn't.

#3

The way that I believe it works is as follows for an example.
Lets say you have a machine with 2 possible outcomes
1. get nothing .
2. get $100.
Now let us assume that we want a payback of 95%.
We set the chip to have 105 positions.
1 position is the $100
104 positions have $0.
The random number generator will pump out any number between 1 and 105.
If all positions are hit once the machine will hold $5.

I hope this explains it.

Regards

A.P.

···

________________________________
From: "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com" <rob.singer1111@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 6:40:27 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Mickey Crimm

I watched the video of Shack talking about slot machines. It wasn't very clear--did I miss something? He states that as soon as you hit the bet button (or pull the handle) the RNG selects the outcome for each reel and the corresponding symbols appear on the screen. However, he repeatedly says that the machine's EPROM chip determines what payback % the machine is set at, and the Casino Manager can change that chip at will.

So, if a machine is set to pay back at a 96% rate for instance, how then can there also be a true RNG at work that randomly selects numbers with corresponding symbols? It's either a RNG or it isn't.

#4

The payback and hold are theoretical until we sit down and
start putting coin in and playing.

The real return to the casino can be different than the
expected return, but 'in the long run', it's going to be
pretty close, sometimes better if people make 'mistakes'.

···

--- On Sun, 8/19/12, Albert Pearson <ehpee@rogers.com> wrote:

From: Albert Pearson <ehpee@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Mickey Crimm
To: "vpFREE@yahoogroups.com" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, August 19, 2012, 5:01 PM

The way that I believe it works is as follows for an example.
Lets say you have a machine with 2 possible outcomes
1. get nothing .
2. get $100.
Now let us assume that we want a payback of 95%.
We set the chip to have 105 positions.
1 position is the $100
104 positions have $0.
The random number generator will pump out any number between 1 and 105.
If all positions are hit once the machine will hold $5.

I hope this explains it.

Regards

A.P.

________________________________
From: "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com" <rob.singer1111@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 6:40:27 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Mickey Crimm

I watched the video of Shack talking about slot machines. It wasn't very clear--did I miss something? He states that as soon as you hit the bet button (or pull the handle) the RNG selects the outcome for each reel and the corresponding symbols appear on the screen. However, he repeatedly says that the machine's EPROM chip determines what payback % the machine is set at, and the Casino Manager can change that chip at will.

So, if a machine is set to pay back at a 96% rate for instance, how then can there also be a true RNG at work that randomly selects numbers with corresponding symbols? It's either a RNG or it isn't.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

Here is how to design a single reel slot machine
with only two outcomes and with payback = 95%.

Let L and W represent the # of losing and winning symbols respectively.

We need to solve the two following simultaneous equations to
determine the values for L and W.

1) L + W = 100
2) L - W = 5 or L = W + 5

substituting W + 5 into equation 1) in place of L gives:
  W + 5 + W = 100
which simplifies to:
  2W = 95 or W = 47.5
and therefore L = 52.5

Since you physically can't have 47.5 or 52.5
symbols on a reel, double those values to 95
and 105 respectively.

In Albert's example below the payback is actually
100/105 or 95.238%.

G'luck all,
Gamb00ler

Albert Pearson wrote:

···

The way that I believe it works is as follows for an example.
Lets say you have a machine with 2 possible outcomes
1. get nothing .
2. get $100.
Now let us assume that we want a payback of 95%.
We set the chip to have 105 positions.
1 position is the $100
104 positions have $0.
The random number generator will pump out any number between 1 and 105.
If all positions are hit once the machine will hold $5.

I hope this explains it.

Regards

A.P.

________________________________
From: "rob.singer1111@..." <rob.singer1111@...>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 6:40:27 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Mickey Crimm

I watched the video of Shack talking about slot machines. It wasn't very clear--did I miss something? He states that as soon as you hit the bet button (or pull the handle) the RNG selects the outcome for each reel and the corresponding symbols appear on the screen. However, he repeatedly says that the machine's EPROM chip determines what payback % the machine is set at, and the Casino Manager can change that chip at will.

So, if a machine is set to pay back at a 96% rate for instance, how then can there also be a true RNG at work that randomly selects numbers with corresponding symbols? It's either a RNG or it isn't.

#6

I used 105 positions in my example.

Regards

A.P.

···

________________________________
From: gamb00ler <gamb00ler@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 9:19:42 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Mickey Crimm

Here is how to design a single reel slot machine
with only two outcomes and with payback = 95%.

Let L and W represent the # of losing and winning symbols respectively.

We need to solve the two following simultaneous equations to
determine the values for L and W.

1) L + W = 100
2) L - W = 5 or L = W + 5

substituting W + 5 into equation 1) in place of L gives:
W + 5 + W = 100
which simplifies to:
2W = 95 or W = 47.5
and therefore L = 52.5

Since you physically can't have 47.5 or 52.5
symbols on a reel, double those values to 95
and 105 respectively.

In Albert's example below the payback is actually
100/105 or 95.238%.

G'luck all,
Gamb00ler

Albert Pearson wrote:

The way that I believe it works is as follows for an example.
Lets say you have a machine with 2 possible outcomes
1. get nothing .
2. get $100.
Now let us assume that we want a payback of 95%.
We set the chip to have 105 positions.
1 position is the $100
104 positions have $0.
The random number generator will pump out any number between 1 and 105.
If all positions are hit once the machine will hold $5.

I hope this explains it.

Regards

A.P.

________________________________
From: "rob.singer1111@..." <rob.singer1111@...>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 6:40:27 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Mickey Crimm

I watched the video of Shack talking about slot machines. It wasn't very clear--did I miss something? He states that as soon as you hit the bet button (or pull the handle) the RNG selects the outcome for each reel and the corresponding symbols appear on the screen. However, he repeatedly says that the machine's EPROM chip determines what payback % the machine is set at, and the Casino Manager can change that chip at will.

So, if a machine is set to pay back at a 96% rate for instance, how then can there also be a true RNG at work that randomly selects numbers with corresponding symbols? It's either a RNG or it isn't.

#7

So if I changed my example to 100 positions and made the payout $95 on the 1 winning position then you would have the
95% payback. The idea for the example was to show how a machine can have a set hold, but still be completely random.

Regards

A.P.

···

________________________________
From: gamb00ler <gamb00ler@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 9:19:42 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Mickey Crimm

Here is how to design a single reel slot machine
with only two outcomes and with payback = 95%.

Let L and W represent the # of losing and winning symbols respectively.

We need to solve the two following simultaneous equations to
determine the values for L and W.

1) L + W = 100
2) L - W = 5 or L = W + 5

substituting W + 5 into equation 1) in place of L gives:
W + 5 + W = 100
which simplifies to:
2W = 95 or W = 47.5
and therefore L = 52.5

Since you physically can't have 47.5 or 52.5
symbols on a reel, double those values to 95
and 105 respectively.

In Albert's example below the payback is actually
100/105 or 95.238%.

G'luck all,
Gamb00ler

Albert Pearson wrote:

The way that I believe it works is as follows for an example.
Lets say you have a machine with 2 possible outcomes
1. get nothing .
2. get $100.
Now let us assume that we want a payback of 95%.
We set the chip to have 105 positions.
1 position is the $100
104 positions have $0.
The random number generator will pump out any number between 1 and 105.
If all positions are hit once the machine will hold $5.

I hope this explains it.

Regards

A.P.

________________________________
From: "rob.singer1111@..." <rob.singer1111@...>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 6:40:27 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Mickey Crimm

I watched the video of Shack talking about slot machines. It wasn't very clear--did I miss something? He states that as soon as you hit the bet button (or pull the handle) the RNG selects the outcome for each reel and the corresponding symbols appear on the screen. However, he repeatedly says that the machine's EPROM chip determines what payback % the machine is set at, and the Casino Manager can change that chip at will.

So, if a machine is set to pay back at a 96% rate for instance, how then can there also be a true RNG at work that randomly selects numbers with corresponding symbols? It's either a RNG or it isn't.

#8

There was actually a three-reel slot machine along these lines. It was called "Sevens or Nothing." You either hit the three red sevens and got paid 100 for 1, or you lost.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

Here is how to design a single reel slot machine
with only two outcomes and with payback = 95%.

Let L and W represent the # of losing and winning symbols respectively.

We need to solve the two following simultaneous equations to
determine the values for L and W.

1) L + W = 100
2) L - W = 5 or L = W + 5

substituting W + 5 into equation 1) in place of L gives:
W + 5 + W = 100
which simplifies to:
2W = 95 or W = 47.5
and therefore L = 52.5

Since you physically can't have 47.5 or 52.5
symbols on a reel, double those values to 95
and 105 respectively.

#9

It's actually called "Hundred or Nothing". They are still pretty common in LV and CA.

>
There was actually a three-reel slot machine along these lines. It was called "Sevens or Nothing." You either hit the three red sevens and got paid 100 for 1, or you lost.

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