Memory recall of hands played

[marksalot300]

That's correct, the memory shows all 5 cards after the deal, then shows the 5
cards after the draw directly below. I got burned by a sticky button while
playing the 9/7 DB progressives at MGM Detroit, held three 3's but one un-held
itself just as I hit the draw. Sure enough, the fourth 3 popped up. I
stopped playing immediately and corralled a slot tech, who called over some Suit.
The Suit stood there while the tech confirmed my story by opening up the
machine and looking at the memory display. The bottom line was that the tech told
the Suit that there was nothing wrong with the button, so the Suit politely
told me that I was outta luck, they wouldn't make good on it.

- Brian in MI

In a message dated 1/5/2006 11:51:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
deuceswild1000@yahoo.com writes:

>>When a machine tech recalls the hands played on a machine, what
shows
>>up? Is it the first five cards dealt or the final five cards
played
>>or what?
>
>Whenever I've seen this, it has been both. The first five cards
are
>above the last five cards.

He was flipping through them so fast and I did not know what to look
for, but now that you mention it, that could have been what I was
seeing. Thanks.

DWK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[deuceswild1000]

The bottom line was that the tech told

the Suit that there was nothing wrong with the button, so the Suit

politely

told me that I was outta luck, they wouldn't make good on it.

Well, I guess that I was not the only one to get that kind of an
answer. Obviously it is not uncommon.

I hope someone would chime in as to cause. Obviously when they check
the buttons they always show ok (after all, I believe all they are,
are a momentary contact switch). My best guess is "point bounce" due
to possibly some random vibration or possibly hitting the draw button
to hard or something.

If we had likely cause, we might have some ammo for future situations.
DWK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Marksalot300@a... wrote:

[Tom_Robertson1]

This is the first I've ever heard of a casino not paying the customer
when a button that should have been held wasn't held, even if there's
no reason to suspect that the customer wasn't just careless.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Marksalot300@a... wrote:
The bottom line was that the tech told

the Suit that there was nothing wrong with the button, so the Suit

politely

told me that I was outta luck, they wouldn't make good on it.

Well, I guess that I was not the only one to get that kind of an
answer. Obviously it is not uncommon.

[Cielaszyk]

The bottom line was that the tech told

the Suit that there was nothing wrong with the button, so the Suit
   

politely

told me that I was outta luck, they wouldn't make good on it.
   
Well, I guess that I was not the only one to get that kind of an
answer. Obviously it is not uncommon.

I hope someone would chime in as to cause. Obviously when they check
the buttons they always show ok (after all, I believe all they are,
are a momentary contact switch). My best guess is "point bounce" due
to possibly some random vibration or possibly hitting the draw button
to hard or something.

If we had likely cause, we might have some ammo for future situations.
DWK

On my machine, there are no internal test of the buttons. There are all
sorts of other test available tho. So, I'm not sure the tech can state
that there is nothing wrong with the button switch. The button that you
see is separate from the actual switch. Inside the button is the little
light bulb and the button presses on the actual switch. The actual
switch is held in place by a plastic snap fitting.

I suspect that some button malfunction is due to sticky buttons from
drinks being spilled on them. I can imagine that a sticky button could
change the result as it slowly releases from the close position. The
machine probably scans the keys so that key bounce from a sticky button
could change the response. Also, the switches which are momentary
contact just get wore out. One of mine had to be pushed fairly hard to
work. This was due to a broken switch housing that holds the actual
switch. The store that I bought the machine from gave me a replacement
switch. This works fine now.

Dennis
vp-connoisseur

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Marksalot300@a... wrote:

[deuceswild1000]

>

On my machine, there are no internal test of the buttons. There

are all

sorts of other test available tho. So, I'm not sure the tech can

state

that there is nothing wrong with the button switch.

Well what I have seen is they bring up the button test screen. They
then press the button and it changes from a zero to a one (or vice a
versa, not sure)on the screen. This tells them that the machine is
making momentary contact. As long as the number changes they then
assume that there is no problem with the switch. As I figure it,
the momentary is made and the computer stores that contact was
made. A tech told me that the switches are only momentary (assuming
he knew) and that there is not an on and off position, just contact
or no contact. Re-hitting the switch changes the state in the
computer.

Not to belabor this, but I had hoped that possibly a machine tech
might respond, because I am sure that this is not a totally isolated
instance.

DWK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Cielaszyk <cacti@1...> wrote:

[tomflush1]

No single switch( button ) is 100.0% accurate. When new resuting holds may be 99.999% bounce-noise free. The initial testing and manufacturer certification is done using brand new switches which may pass a 99.999% test. The anti-noise circuit which converts the on/off analog switch signal to digital is a J/K flip flop or equivalent. These are very reliable if done with new high quality switches such as those that IGT use. Over time, and with abuse from coffee, gum, sweat, and player banging's they become noisy - often to the point where they have to be replaced. Such switches often pass a test of 10 presses. You ( not the tech ) really have to give it 100 tries to determine a bounce problem, using your cadence, your pressure and hold time, for results can vary from individual to individual. No tech is willing to put in that kind of effort nor let you take control ! The bottom screen does not show your "intent" but the final hold as seen by the computer.
There is a local advantage player nick-named 'karate-chop' ( plays at station casinos) because he does not press the buttons, but karate-chops at them. I have played at banks where he was playing on end for hours, and literally every machine in the bank would have certain buttons with maybe a 97% reliability. You keep scratching your head and noticing at least 3 "mis-holds" per hour because of this. Cutting your speed back to 300 hands/ hour often clears up your woe's. At Palace Station one machine was so bad, I had to use the touch screen to avoid bounce. Be aware, the screen gui can be a problematic also , if its not calibrated.

regards...Tom

[deuceswild1000]

No single switch( button ) is 100.0% accurate. When new resuting

holds may

be 99.999% bounce-noise free. The initial testing and manufacturer
certification is done using brand new switches which may pass a

99.999%

test. The anti-noise circuit which converts the on/off analog

switch signal

to digital is a J/K flip flop or equivalent. These are very

reliable if done

with new high quality switches such as those that IGT use. Over

time, and

with abuse from coffee, gum, sweat, and player banging's they

become

noisy - often to the point where they have to be replaced. Such

switches

often pass a test of 10 presses. You ( not the tech ) really have

to give it

100 tries to determine a bounce problem, using your cadence, your

pressure

and hold time, for results can vary from individual to

individual. No tech

is willing to put in that kind of effort nor let you take

control ! The

bottom screen does not show your "intent" but the final hold as

seen by the

computer.
There is a local advantage player nick-named 'karate-chop' ( plays

at

station casinos) because he does not press the buttons, but

karate-chops at

them. I have played at banks where he was playing on end for

hours, and

literally every machine in the bank would have certain buttons

with maybe a

97% reliability. You keep scratching your head and noticing at

least 3

"mis-holds" per hour because of this. Cutting your speed back to

300 hands/

hour often clears up your woe's. At Palace Station one machine

was so bad,

I had to use the touch screen to avoid bounce. Be aware, the

screen gui can

be a problematic also , if its not calibrated.

regards...Tom

Good answer, Thanks

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@n...> wrote: