vpFREE2 Forums

math question

Merry Christmas All,
   
  If I am playing FP DDB (100.1% ) and playing perfectly, I can expect a .1% positive return over the long long term, right? If say I am playing at 99% accuracy, is that 1% subtracted from the 100.1% in terms of expected long long term returns thereby giving me an expected return of 99.1%. I don't even know if that question makes sense. It does in my head but I don't know if I asked it correctly. I really like the feature on Bob Dance's software that tells me my accuracy but I'll be darned if I have been able to score perfect 100% play over 1000+ hands. Thanks.
  Robert

···

---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'll let someone more familiar with the software that you're using
comment on the precise meaning of "accuracy" in your context.

Be aware that the edge in DDB is so razor-thin that without something
"extra" (cash back...) thrown in the mix the notion of "long term" is
impractically long. If I have my numbers right (source: wizard of odds
and vpFree glossary) 10/6 DDB has an edge of 0.067%, and a variance of
42.2. Putting those numbers together, it takes 82 years (240 days per
year, 8 hours per day, 600 hands per hour) for the expected gain to be
1 standard deviation (to put it another way, after a lifetime of
perfect play you still have approximately a 16% chance of being in the
red).

JBQ

···

On Dec 25, 2007 10:08 AM, Robert Pickett <robert.pickett70@yahoo.com> wrote:

Merry Christmas All,

  If I am playing FP DDB (100.1% ) and playing perfectly, I can expect a .1% positive return over the long long term, right? If say I am playing at 99% accuracy, is that 1% subtracted from the 100.1% in terms of expected long long term returns thereby giving me an expected return of 99.1%. I don't even know if that question makes sense. It does in my head but I don't know if I asked it correctly. I really like the feature on Bob Dance's software that tells me my accuracy but I'll be darned if I have been able to score perfect 100% play over 1000+ hands. Thanks.
  Robert

---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

You can't expect a .1% return over the long term, even with perfect
play. Over many lifetime samples, that would be the average result.
But the measure for you personally is N0. N0 = variance/(edge^2) hands
of play. If my memory is right, FPDDB variance is 43. So for FPDDB N0
= 43/(.001^2) = 43 million hands. At N0 hands your results will be
(approximately) 84% of the time positive and 16% negative, for a
positive expectation game (reverse for a negative expectation game).
So, bottom line, if you grind out 43 million hands of FPDDB with
perfect play, you can expect to come out ahead 84% of the time but to
lose 16% of the time, assuming you have the bankroll to play all those
hands and that the casino will allow you to play all those hands. For
less than 43 million hands, your results will be less, for example for
one hand your results are 55% nothing and 33% push, which leaves you
just 12% chance of winning one hand.
http://wizardofodds.com/videopoker/tables/doubledoublebonus.html
For a breakeven game, your longterm results are not to expect to
breakeven, rather your results will be 50% chance of winning and 50%
chance of losing. A breakeven game is a game of bankrolls, someone
will quit first, either you or the casino, either you will run out of
money or the casino will cut you off for winning too much. The ratio
of those limits determines the probable outcome. For example, if your
stop loss is $50,000 and the casino will kick you out if you win
$20,000 , the longterm results are 5 out of 7 you win $20,000 , 2 out
of 7 you lose $50,000 . For you personally there is nothing breakeven
about this result.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Robert Pickett <robert.pickett70@...>
wrote:

Merry Christmas All,
   
  If I am playing FP DDB (100.1% ) and playing perfectly, I can

expect a .1% positive return over the long long term, right? If say I
am playing at 99% accuracy, is that 1% subtracted from the 100.1% in
terms of expected long long term returns thereby giving me an expected
return of 99.1%. I don't even know if that question makes sense. It
does in my head but I don't know if I asked it correctly. I really
like the feature on Bob Dance's software that tells me my accuracy but
I'll be darned if I have been able to score perfect 100% play over
1000+ hands. Thanks.

  Robert

---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!

Search.

···

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<You can't expect a .1% return over the long term, even with perfect
play. >>

This is why most wise gamblers who want to be sure of profit do not play with razor-thin edges. Most want a minimum of at least a .5% edge and many have much higher requirements. The lower your edge the bigger the bankroll you need, the longer you need to plan to play, and the less certainty you have of making a profit.

···

________________
Jean $�ott
The much-expanded new edition of my tax book,
including a new chapter on poker, is now available
to order at my Web site, http://queenofcomps.com/.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Robert Pickett <robert.pickett70@...>
wrote:

Merry Christmas All,
   
  If I am playing FP DDB (100.1% ) and playing perfectly, I can

And the simple math answer, I believe, is x times y
if x is your accuracy on perfect play (not against the strategy), and y
is the machines ER, then in your case it would be:

(.99)(100.1) = 99.099% = the percentage you're looking for = accuracy
probability * expected return percentage.

I do agree that this edge is a bit thin.
hope this helps,

perro
happy holidays!

Hi Jean,
   
  Thanks for the info. I hope you don't mind if I chat with you about my questions. I'm not new to VP but I am new to looking for only full pay games.
   
  As I see it there are only a couple of common VP games that pay more than .5%. They are FPDW (100.7%) and 20/7 JW (100.6%). But I can't find any of those that are more than 25 cents or any of those that are 3/5/10/50/100 play. Although, there appears to be a 25c/50c/$1 20/7 JW at El Cortez. I wasn't planning on going downtown but maybe I will. Do you know of any FP VP games > .5% that are worth considering? May I ask what game you prefer? Thanks.
   
  Robert

···

Jean Scott <queenofcomps@cox.net> wrote:
          <<You can't expect a .1% return over the long term, even with perfect
play. >>

This is why most wise gamblers who want to be sure of profit do not play
with razor-thin edges. Most want a minimum of at least a .5% edge and many
have much higher requirements. The lower your edge the bigger the bankroll
you need, the longer you need to plan to play, and the less certainty you
have of making a profit.
________________
Jean $¢ott
The much-expanded new edition of my tax book,
including a new chapter on poker, is now available
to order at my Web site, http://queenofcomps.com/.

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<Do you know of any FP VP games > .5% that are worth considering? May I ask what game you prefer?>>

When I talk about a .5% edge, I am not talking about just a VP game. Actually the term one should use would be "play." Actually we rarely play even a positive game anymore - as you mentioned there are few positive games above the quarter level. We mostly play 9/6 JoB and NSUD - occasionally 8/5 Bonus. But advantage players have to become experts in adding EV - for us that means slot club benefits, tournament equity, bonus point periods, bounce-back cash or free play, drawing equity, etc.

···

________________
Jean $�ott
The much-expanded new edition of my tax book,
including a new chapter on poker, is now available
to order at my Web site, http://queenofcomps.com/.