vpFREE2 Forums

makes you wonder.....(3 royals day)

#1

Have you ever heard people say (or said yourself) - "gee, it seems like I do
better on machines with bad payouts?"

Sometimes it does make you wonder about how machines are set and the truth
(or nice white lie) that all VP machines deal a random deck.

At the Palms I've spent many hours playing 9/6 DDB and NSU (alternating a
bit between them usually) on their 5-play machines, with hardly a royal to show
for it. In fact, 2007 was a really bad year for me, with a total of only 4
royals all year long (at any property - not just the Palms where I got 1 of
them).

So when I got a 4x points coupon yesterday at the Palms during their swipe,
I thought, gee, I think I will look somewhere else in the casino to play
(since I've had such bad luck). So I headed to some 3/5 play machines that back
up to the high roller area (outside it). I've only played there once,
because instead of NSU, they have that lower pay table deuces (75 for 5 of a kind,
45 for a SF, 20 for a FH though, etc).

So I start playing 9/6 DDB and pretty soon I'm hitting Aces without a kicker
and other quads, so I go from quarters to $1. Then, bingo, a royal -
holding one lonely King of Clubs. I wait for my money (and ugh W2G) and sit at the
machine next to it to play the ugly deuces for a change. Bingo, a few
minutes later up come 4 deuces. I go back to machine #1 and play for about an
hour, and well...a 2nd Royal! (holding 2 to a royal for a surprise hit)

Now I start plowing a lot of money back as quads suddenly completely vanish.
I'm well past the 10,000 points that get quadrupled for the coupon, but I'm
having fun, so I play and play. I'm sick of DDB, so I switch to bad deuces
on this machine, and quickly hit 4 deuces! But the $ is going really fast
when I go back to DDB as quads vanish for at least an hour or more.
Stubbornly I hang in there, since I'd never hit any quads with a kicker. I'm losing a
whole royal's worth of money! Argh! Why didn't I leave?

And then, about 4 or more hours into play - a 3rd royal appears! (held 3 to
a royal)

Of course I'm a nut, so I keep playing. I cannot believe it is easier to
get royals than a quad with a kicker. In fact, I'm still not getting any
quads.

Finally Aces with a kicker show up, along with Aces without the kicker all
in one hand (another W2G - darn it).

Now you might think I'm crazy, but I'm thinking - "gee, are these machines
better than the ones on the other side of the casino that have NSU?"

Perhaps I am crazy. But here's one more thing. A man sits down 2 machines
over and after awhile he hits a royal at quarters. And then, about half an
hour later on the next machine down, he hits a 2nd royal!

I just can't help but wonder when I think of the hours spent on the Palms
NSU 5-plays without a single set of deuces or a royal, let alone both. And
here I've gotten 2 sets of deuces and 3 royals all in one long session!
Admittedly, I was playing for close to 8 hours by the time I'd finished. That's a
lot longer than my usual 2-hour session. And admittedly, it could be dumb
luck for me (and the guy next to me).

But last year - 4 royals total everywhere. And now, a 3 royals-in-one-day.

Hmmmmm.....

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

misscraps wrote:

Have you ever heard people say (or said yourself) - "gee, it seems
like I do better on machines with bad payouts?"

Sometimes it does make you wonder about how machines are set and the
truth (or nice white lie) that all VP machines deal a random deck.

I just can't help but wonder when I think of the hours spent on the
Palms NSU 5-plays without a single set of deuces or a royal, let
alone both. And here I've gotten 2 sets of deuces and 3 royals all
in one long session! <playing an inferior game>
Admittedly, I was playing for close to 8 hours by the time I'd
finished. That's a lot longer than my usual 2-hour session. And
admittedly, it could be dumb luck for me (and the guy next to me).

Experiences like this to set your mind to wondering - particularly
after coming after a year like that of yours last year. However, I'm
sure that as one of the most active player with whom I'm familiar that
the intense volatility that you've experienced from time to time makes
it easy to set aside any notion that something other than a normally
random set of machines is at work here.

I had a loosely analogous experience -- a few years ago the strongest
machine in AC was a $1 10/7 DB machine at Trump Plaza. This was at a
time when otherwise there was a dearth of good vp in town. I played
the machine fairly aggressively over an 18-month period and saw no
royals. I estimate I played through roughly 5 cycles.

The frequent speculation by players as to why the Plaza would
inventory such a strong paytable when otherwise its vp offerings were
weak, combined with their reported experience that they seldom saw a
royal hit on the machine, were sufficient for me to ultimately have
some grave doubts about the money I had sunk into a "good" game.

Those doubts ultimately were allayed by a good friend. She came into
the Plaza for some casual play on the machine over the course of a
weekend. In her 3 individual machine sessions, she hit a RF 3
separate times!

She sheepishly told me of the experience the next weekend, modestly
fearful that my frustration might be vented toward her in some
(innocuous) manner. I assured her that if anything I was
extraordinarily appreciative, for it affirmed that the machine could
pay out -- and, of course, I was excited for her good fortune.

- Harry

#3

Very well stated. Apparently the VP machines control
the game done by very good programmers. I noticed that
you play for a long periods of time that you get dealt
many full houses that you don't have to draw for. You
keep playing and you are gradually "weaned out" to
receiving even money return hands and your bank roll
diminishes over time. You will not be receiving any
royals and no one else is receiving any. This will go
one for over hundred thousand hands and still no
royals. Then all of a sudden you receive a dealt royal
that you can not mess up. Seems that they want to keep
you interest to provide a predictable return for your
play where they can tweak your comp and etc.
This has been happening since 2002 for some reason.
Some players "blow lots of wind" about their winning
years, maybe they are counting their gross winnings or
have another source of some related revenue from VP.
Let's face it the casinos put video poker with slots
and that's where it belongs.
Vet

Have you ever heard people say (or said yourself) -
"gee, it seems like I do
better on machines with bad payouts?"

Sometimes it does make you wonder about how machines
are set and the truth
(or nice white lie) that all VP machines deal a
random deck.

At the Palms I've spent many hours playing 9/6 DDB
and NSU (alternating a
bit between them usually) on their 5-play machines,
with hardly a royal to show
for it. In fact, 2007 was a really bad year for me,
with a total of only 4
royals all year long (at any property - not just the
Palms where I got 1 of
them).

So when I got a 4x points coupon yesterday at the
Palms during their swipe,
I thought, gee, I think I will look somewhere else
in the casino to play
(since I've had such bad luck). So I headed to some
3/5 play machines that back
up to the high roller area (outside it). I've only
played there once,
because instead of NSU, they have that lower pay
table deuces (75 for 5 of a kind,
45 for a SF, 20 for a FH though, etc).

So I start playing 9/6 DDB and pretty soon I'm
hitting Aces without a kicker
and other quads, so I go from quarters to $1. Then,
bingo, a royal -
holding one lonely King of Clubs. I wait for my
money (and ugh W2G) and sit at the
machine next to it to play the ugly deuces for a
change. Bingo, a few
minutes later up come 4 deuces. I go back to
machine #1 and play for about an
hour, and well...a 2nd Royal! (holding 2 to a royal
for a surprise hit)

Now I start plowing a lot of money back as quads
suddenly completely vanish.
I'm well past the 10,000 points that get quadrupled
for the coupon, but I'm
having fun, so I play and play. I'm sick of DDB, so
I switch to bad deuces
on this machine, and quickly hit 4 deuces! But the
$ is going really fast
when I go back to DDB as quads vanish for at least
an hour or more.
Stubbornly I hang in there, since I'd never hit any
quads with a kicker. I'm losing a
whole royal's worth of money! Argh! Why didn't I
leave?

And then, about 4 or more hours into play - a 3rd
royal appears! (held 3 to
a royal)

Of course I'm a nut, so I keep playing. I cannot
believe it is easier to
get royals than a quad with a kicker. In fact, I'm
still not getting any
quads.

Finally Aces with a kicker show up, along with Aces
without the kicker all
in one hand (another W2G - darn it).

Now you might think I'm crazy, but I'm thinking -
"gee, are these machines
better than the ones on the other side of the casino
that have NSU?"

Perhaps I am crazy. But here's one more thing. A
man sits down 2 machines
over and after awhile he hits a royal at quarters.
And then, about half an
hour later on the next machine down, he hits a 2nd
royal!

I just can't help but wonder when I think of the
hours spent on the Palms
NSU 5-plays without a single set of deuces or a
royal, let alone both. And
here I've gotten 2 sets of deuces and 3 royals all
in one long session!
Admittedly, I was playing for close to 8 hours by
the time I'd finished. That's a
lot longer than my usual 2-hour session. And
admittedly, it could be dumb
luck for me (and the guy next to me).

But last year - 4 royals total everywhere. And now,
a 3 royals-in-one-day.

Hmmmmm.....

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways
to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

···

--- misscraps@aol.com wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

#4

Just keep playing the poor paytables. The rest of us appreciate it
when the good machines are vacant.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, vet <vet611@...> wrote:

Very well stated. Apparently the VP machines control
the game done by very good programmers. I noticed that
you play for a long periods of time that you get dealt
many full houses that you don't have to draw for. You
keep playing and you are gradually "weaned out" to
receiving even money return hands and your bank roll
diminishes over time. You will not be receiving any
royals and no one else is receiving any. This will go
one for over hundred thousand hands and still no
royals. Then all of a sudden you receive a dealt royal
that you can not mess up. Seems that they want to keep
you interest to provide a predictable return for your
play where they can tweak your comp and etc.
This has been happening since 2002 for some reason.
Some players "blow lots of wind" about their winning
years, maybe they are counting their gross winnings or
have another source of some related revenue from VP.
Let's face it the casinos put video poker with slots
and that's where it belongs.
Vet

--- misscraps@... wrote:

> Have you ever heard people say (or said yourself) -
> "gee, it seems like I do
> better on machines with bad payouts?"
>
> Sometimes it does make you wonder about how machines
> are set and the truth
> (or nice white lie) that all VP machines deal a
> random deck.
>
> At the Palms I've spent many hours playing 9/6 DDB
> and NSU (alternating a
> bit between them usually) on their 5-play machines,
> with hardly a royal to show
> for it. In fact, 2007 was a really bad year for me,
> with a total of only 4
> royals all year long (at any property - not just the
> Palms where I got 1 of
> them).
>
> So when I got a 4x points coupon yesterday at the
> Palms during their swipe,
> I thought, gee, I think I will look somewhere else
> in the casino to play
> (since I've had such bad luck). So I headed to some
> 3/5 play machines that back
> up to the high roller area (outside it). I've only
> played there once,
> because instead of NSU, they have that lower pay
> table deuces (75 for 5 of a kind,
> 45 for a SF, 20 for a FH though, etc).
>
> So I start playing 9/6 DDB and pretty soon I'm
> hitting Aces without a kicker
> and other quads, so I go from quarters to $1. Then,
> bingo, a royal -
> holding one lonely King of Clubs. I wait for my
> money (and ugh W2G) and sit at the
> machine next to it to play the ugly deuces for a
> change. Bingo, a few
> minutes later up come 4 deuces. I go back to
> machine #1 and play for about an
> hour, and well...a 2nd Royal! (holding 2 to a royal
> for a surprise hit)
>
> Now I start plowing a lot of money back as quads
> suddenly completely vanish.
> I'm well past the 10,000 points that get quadrupled
> for the coupon, but I'm
> having fun, so I play and play. I'm sick of DDB, so
> I switch to bad deuces
> on this machine, and quickly hit 4 deuces! But the
> $ is going really fast
> when I go back to DDB as quads vanish for at least
> an hour or more.
> Stubbornly I hang in there, since I'd never hit any
> quads with a kicker. I'm losing a
> whole royal's worth of money! Argh! Why didn't I
> leave?
>
> And then, about 4 or more hours into play - a 3rd
> royal appears! (held 3 to
> a royal)
>
> Of course I'm a nut, so I keep playing. I cannot
> believe it is easier to
> get royals than a quad with a kicker. In fact, I'm
> still not getting any
> quads.
>
> Finally Aces with a kicker show up, along with Aces
> without the kicker all
> in one hand (another W2G - darn it).
>
> Now you might think I'm crazy, but I'm thinking -
> "gee, are these machines
> better than the ones on the other side of the casino
> that have NSU?"
>
> Perhaps I am crazy. But here's one more thing. A
> man sits down 2 machines
> over and after awhile he hits a royal at quarters.
> And then, about half an
> hour later on the next machine down, he hits a 2nd
> royal!
>
> I just can't help but wonder when I think of the
> hours spent on the Palms
> NSU 5-plays without a single set of deuces or a
> royal, let alone both. And
> here I've gotten 2 sets of deuces and 3 royals all
> in one long session!
> Admittedly, I was playing for close to 8 hours by
> the time I'd finished. That's a
> lot longer than my usual 2-hour session. And
> admittedly, it could be dumb
> luck for me (and the guy next to me).
>
> But last year - 4 royals total everywhere. And now,
> a 3 royals-in-one-day.
>
> Hmmmmm.....

#5

"Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

the intense volatility that you've experienced from time to time
makes it easy to set aside any notion that something other than a
normally random set of machines is at work here.

A fascinating thing about these human minds we're wired with... is
that we always see patterns in everything, even when they don't
exist! I heard a cool example of this. A poker buddy of mine used to
manage a bar. To make things livelier, he got this machine that would
flash colored lights, completely at random, whenever the juke box
played a song. And many of his patrons came up to him and said it was
so great how the lights so perfectly matched whatever music was
playing.

And there's always the classic example: play the Wizard of Oz on DVD
(without the sound) while simultaneously playing a CD of Dark Side of
the Moon. They fit together perfectly! (Medicinal herbs may be
necessary for this to work.) I hear it also works for Fargo.

Stuart (RandomStu)
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

#6

What do the poor pay tables have to do with royals or
dealt full houses and etc. The rest of you must spend
20 hours, seven days a week in a casino. Inhaling the
smoke and watching the VP monitor with blazing
flashing lights ruining your eyes for a .1% return. It
must be fun do this for a living that won't pay your
rent for one week a month. Maybe you can trade your
comp for cash to be a "professional player?".
Vet.

···

--- mroejacks <rgmustain@aol.com> wrote:

Just keep playing the poor paytables. The rest of us
appreciate it
when the good machines are vacant.

Dick

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, vet <vet611@...>
wrote:
>
> Very well stated. Apparently the VP machines
control
> the game done by very good programmers. I noticed
that
> you play for a long periods of time that you get
dealt
> many full houses that you don't have to draw for.
You
> keep playing and you are gradually "weaned out" to
> receiving even money return hands and your bank
roll
> diminishes over time. You will not be receiving
any
> royals and no one else is receiving any. This will
go
> one for over hundred thousand hands and still no
> royals. Then all of a sudden you receive a dealt
royal
> that you can not mess up. Seems that they want to
keep
> you interest to provide a predictable return for
your
> play where they can tweak your comp and etc.
> This has been happening since 2002 for some
reason.
> Some players "blow lots of wind" about their
winning
> years, maybe they are counting their gross
winnings or
> have another source of some related revenue from
VP.
> Let's face it the casinos put video poker with
slots
> and that's where it belongs.
> Vet
>
> --- misscraps@... wrote:
>
> > Have you ever heard people say (or said
yourself) -
> > "gee, it seems like I do
> > better on machines with bad payouts?"
> >
> > Sometimes it does make you wonder about how
machines
> > are set and the truth
> > (or nice white lie) that all VP machines deal a
> > random deck.
> >
> > At the Palms I've spent many hours playing 9/6
DDB
> > and NSU (alternating a
> > bit between them usually) on their 5-play
machines,
> > with hardly a royal to show
> > for it. In fact, 2007 was a really bad year for
me,
> > with a total of only 4
> > royals all year long (at any property - not just
the
> > Palms where I got 1 of
> > them).
> >
> > So when I got a 4x points coupon yesterday at
the
> > Palms during their swipe,
> > I thought, gee, I think I will look somewhere
else
> > in the casino to play
> > (since I've had such bad luck). So I headed to
some
> > 3/5 play machines that back
> > up to the high roller area (outside it). I've
only
> > played there once,
> > because instead of NSU, they have that lower pay
> > table deuces (75 for 5 of a kind,
> > 45 for a SF, 20 for a FH though, etc).
> >
> > So I start playing 9/6 DDB and pretty soon I'm
> > hitting Aces without a kicker
> > and other quads, so I go from quarters to $1.
Then,
> > bingo, a royal -
> > holding one lonely King of Clubs. I wait for my
> > money (and ugh W2G) and sit at the
> > machine next to it to play the ugly deuces for a

> > change. Bingo, a few
> > minutes later up come 4 deuces. I go back to
> > machine #1 and play for about an
> > hour, and well...a 2nd Royal! (holding 2 to a
royal
> > for a surprise hit)
> >
> > Now I start plowing a lot of money back as quads
> > suddenly completely vanish.
> > I'm well past the 10,000 points that get
quadrupled
> > for the coupon, but I'm
> > having fun, so I play and play. I'm sick of
DDB, so
> > I switch to bad deuces
> > on this machine, and quickly hit 4 deuces! But
the
> > $ is going really fast
> > when I go back to DDB as quads vanish for at
least
> > an hour or more.
> > Stubbornly I hang in there, since I'd never hit
any
> > quads with a kicker. I'm losing a
> > whole royal's worth of money! Argh! Why
didn't I
> > leave?
> >
> > And then, about 4 or more hours into play - a
3rd
> > royal appears! (held 3 to
> > a royal)
> >
> > Of course I'm a nut, so I keep playing. I
cannot
> > believe it is easier to
> > get royals than a quad with a kicker. In fact,
I'm
> > still not getting any
> > quads.
> >
> > Finally Aces with a kicker show up, along with
Aces
> > without the kicker all
> > in one hand (another W2G - darn it).
> >
> > Now you might think I'm crazy, but I'm thinking
-
> > "gee, are these machines
> > better than the ones on the other side of the
casino
> > that have NSU?"
> >
> > Perhaps I am crazy. But here's one more thing.
A
> > man sits down 2 machines
> > over and after awhile he hits a royal at
quarters.
> > And then, about half an
> > hour later on the next machine down, he hits a
2nd
> > royal!
> >
> > I just can't help but wonder when I think of the
> > hours spent on the Palms
> > NSU 5-plays without a single set of deuces or a
> > royal, let alone both. And
> > here I've gotten 2 sets of deuces and 3 royals
all
> > in one long session!
> > Admittedly, I was playing for close to 8 hours
by
> > the time I'd finished. That's a
> > lot longer than my usual 2-hour session. And
> > admittedly, it could be dumb
> > luck for me (and the guy next to me).
> >
> > But last year - 4 royals total everywhere. And
now,
> > a 3 royals-in-one-day.
> >
> > Hmmmmm.....

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

#7

I would never play with a .1% edge. I often play with 2-3%. And, many
people here don't play anywhere near those hours and don't consider
themselves pros ... just recreational players looking to reduce the
cost of their entertainment or make a little extra spending cash. That
isn't going to happen if we play poor paytables, at least it never did
for me until I learned to be a little more intelligent about it.

Looks like you went to the Rob Singer school of misinformation.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, vet <vet611@...> wrote:

What do the poor pay tables have to do with royals or
dealt full houses and etc. The rest of you must spend
20 hours, seven days a week in a casino. Inhaling the
smoke and watching the VP monitor with blazing
flashing lights ruining your eyes for a .1% return. It
must be fun do this for a living that won't pay your
rent for one week a month. Maybe you can trade your
comp for cash to be a "professional player?".
Vet.

#8

Just keep playing you don't have to explain your vices
to me. I have the same problem. The good pay tables
have disappeared and the results fo these poor pay
tables are questionable. In order to prove this to non
believers I am not going to keep record of the hands I
play and the card dealt to prove that I am right. I
play for enjoyment and accommodations, etc and let
them have their "reasonable? profits.Enjoy it.
Vet

···

--- mroejacks <rgmustain@aol.com> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, vet <vet611@...>
wrote:
>
> What do the poor pay tables have to do with royals
or
> dealt full houses and etc. The rest of you must
spend
> 20 hours, seven days a week in a casino. Inhaling
the
> smoke and watching the VP monitor with blazing
> flashing lights ruining your eyes for a .1%
return. It
> must be fun do this for a living that won't pay
your
> rent for one week a month. Maybe you can trade
your
> comp for cash to be a "professional player?".
> Vet.

I would never play with a .1% edge. I often play
with 2-3%. And, many
people here don't play anywhere near those hours and
don't consider
themselves pros ... just recreational players
looking to reduce the
cost of their entertainment or make a little extra
spending cash. That
isn't going to happen if we play poor paytables, at
least it never did
for me until I learned to be a little more
intelligent about it.

Looks like you went to the Rob Singer school of
misinformation.

Dick

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping