vpFREE2 Forums

Majestic blackjack tournament

No, I will not be there tomorrow.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: jaydavidson118
To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 9/17/2004 10:27:39 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] Re: Majestic blackjack tournament

so, I take that is a no?

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern"
<howard.w.stern@e...> wrote:

I played in the last one (on a comp) and it was ran awfully! They

stopped drawing for position (against their rules) which with the
rules they have it is critical for the last hand of any round and I
had the worst of it in the first round and the rebuy round. The
dealer did not know that insurance was not supposed to be offered. In
the first round, I was in position 4 at a 4 handed table (three
advanced). Betting first on hand 20 is the worst! In the first 17
hands I was dealt 13 stiffs, 3 pat hands and 1 count of 8 which
became a stiff on the first draw. I won all ins on hands 18, 19 and
20 and on hand 20 one of the other players made a bad bet. If she had
lost and I won I would have advanced. She stood on a stiff against
dealer's 3. I had 20. If dealer had made 17, 18 or 19 I would have
advanced by $50. Dealer broke. During the rebuy round one of the pit
people commented on the girl to the left of me making a good
tournament play by standing on hard eight with a minimum bet out.
Unfortunately for me, I was out of position on hand 20. She made the
wrong bet behind me letting me tie for third (three of five moved
on). No redraw for position in the five hand playoff and she made 20
or 21 on three of the four hands we played. She won three and I won
none and was forced all in on hand four so I was tapped out. She
eventually made the final table.

----- Original Message -----
From: jaydavidson118
To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 9/17/2004 1:02:12 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] Majestic blackjack tournament

Is anyone else playing in this Sat's blackjack tournament?

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm astonished to hear you guys even considering blackjack
tournaments. Given the nature of blackjack how could you possibly
devise a tournament that rewards skill while being equitable to all
players? In Bridge there are events where all participants play the
same hands, but this doesn't seem to be the format of blackjack
events. I used to be a serious blackjack player but gave it up years
ago. Casinos have gone to great extremes to make blackjack a poor
gambling proposition and it no longer enjoys the top spot as best
casino offering (positive vp and Pai Gow are clearly better, Baccarat
and Craps may be marginally better). Even if your entry is free it
still costs you money to commute and isn't your time worth something?

Speaking of tournaments I strongly advise against the NL HoldEm events
held at Trumps on Wednesdays. These events have a format strictly for
the benefit of the organizers. Players don't get enough chips, rounds
are too short, and blinds are ratcheted up too steeply. The event
always degenerates into an all-in lottery. I reached the final 2
tables on 2 occasions and noticed that even the chip leaders were
vulnerable to the blinds. That simply shouldn't happen. If you're
interested in tournaments that give players a chance to play real
poker look for events that feature Tex's TEARS format
(http://www.pokerpages.com/pokerinfo/texstears/index.htm).

Although I've railed against Internet poker recently I've tried a new
site with which I've been favorably impressed so far: PokerStars. It
could simply be a case of having to weed through the bad sites before
you find a good one. I haven't played long enough to form a sound
opinion, but all aspects of PokerStars have left me quite impressed.
In particular they've taken significant steps to safeguard fairness
and integrity via hardware based RNG and excellent software design.
Their support is superb in responsiveness and technical knowledge.
Their players seem of higher caliber in both playing and people
skills. So far so good, stay tuned.

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern"
<howard.w.stern@e...> wrote:

···

No, I will not be there tomorrow.

----- Original Message -----
From: jaydavidson118
To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 9/17/2004 10:27:39 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] Re: Majestic blackjack tournament

so, I take that is a no?

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern"
<howard.w.stern@e...> wrote:
> I played in the last one (on a comp) and it was ran awfully! They
stopped drawing for position (against their rules) which with the
rules they have it is critical for the last hand of any round and I
had the worst of it in the first round and the rebuy round. The
dealer did not know that insurance was not supposed to be offered. In
the first round, I was in position 4 at a 4 handed table (three
advanced). Betting first on hand 20 is the worst! In the first 17
hands I was dealt 13 stiffs, 3 pat hands and 1 count of 8 which
became a stiff on the first draw. I won all ins on hands 18, 19 and
20 and on hand 20 one of the other players made a bad bet. If she had
lost and I won I would have advanced. She stood on a stiff against
dealer's 3. I had 20. If dealer had made 17, 18 or 19 I would have
advanced by $50. Dealer broke. During the rebuy round one of the pit
people commented on the girl to the left of me making a good
tournament play by standing on hard eight with a minimum bet out.
Unfortunately for me, I was out of position on hand 20. She made the
wrong bet behind me letting me tie for third (three of five moved
on). No redraw for position in the five hand playoff and she made 20
or 21 on three of the four hands we played. She won three and I won
none and was forced all in on hand four so I was tapped out. She
eventually made the final table.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jaydavidson118
> To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 9/17/2004 1:02:12 AM
> Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] Majestic blackjack tournament
>
>
> Is anyone else playing in this Sat's blackjack tournament?
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE_Chicago/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vpFREE_Chicago-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Even though it may not be run perfectly...alright far from perfectly,
it was still fun! plus with $10,000 prize pool and less than 100
people playing it was still a positive play if you had to pay $100,
even with zero skill factor ie. even if it were a lottery. But skill
does play a roll, skill is much more on the betting side than on the
playing side, but luck is a Big factor. I made it to the third round,
unfortunately the fourth was the money round. A key factor to my
winning the second round was a hand I lost, so did everyone else, I
had min bet the chip leaders were max'd out...lucky for me!

I say reconsider, have some fun!

I'm astonished to hear you guys even considering blackjack
tournaments. Given the nature of blackjack how could you possibly
devise a tournament that rewards skill while being equitable to all
players? In Bridge there are events where all participants play the
same hands, but this doesn't seem to be the format of blackjack
events. I used to be a serious blackjack player but gave it up years
ago. Casinos have gone to great extremes to make blackjack a poor
gambling proposition and it no longer enjoys the top spot as best
casino offering (positive vp and Pai Gow are clearly better,

Baccarat

and Craps may be marginally better). Even if your entry is free it
still costs you money to commute and isn't your time worth

something?

Speaking of tournaments I strongly advise against the NL HoldEm

events

held at Trumps on Wednesdays. These events have a format strictly

for

the benefit of the organizers. Players don't get enough chips,

rounds

are too short, and blinds are ratcheted up too steeply. The event
always degenerates into an all-in lottery. I reached the final 2
tables on 2 occasions and noticed that even the chip leaders were
vulnerable to the blinds. That simply shouldn't happen. If you're
interested in tournaments that give players a chance to play real
poker look for events that feature Tex's TEARS format
(http://www.pokerpages.com/pokerinfo/texstears/index.htm).

Although I've railed against Internet poker recently I've tried a

new

site with which I've been favorably impressed so far: PokerStars. It
could simply be a case of having to weed through the bad sites

before

you find a good one. I haven't played long enough to form a sound
opinion, but all aspects of PokerStars have left me quite impressed.
In particular they've taken significant steps to safeguard fairness
and integrity via hardware based RNG and excellent software design.
Their support is superb in responsiveness and technical knowledge.
Their players seem of higher caliber in both playing and people
skills. So far so good, stay tuned.

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern"
<howard.w.stern@e...> wrote:
> No, I will not be there tomorrow.
>
>
> From: jaydavidson118
> To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 9/17/2004 10:27:39 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] Re: Majestic blackjack tournament
>
>
> so, I take that is a no?
>
> --- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern"
> <howard.w.stern@e...> wrote:
> > I played in the last one (on a comp) and it was ran awfully!

They

> stopped drawing for position (against their rules) which with the
> rules they have it is critical for the last hand of any round and

I

> had the worst of it in the first round and the rebuy round. The
> dealer did not know that insurance was not supposed to be

offered. In

> the first round, I was in position 4 at a 4 handed table (three
> advanced). Betting first on hand 20 is the worst! In the first 17
> hands I was dealt 13 stiffs, 3 pat hands and 1 count of 8 which
> became a stiff on the first draw. I won all ins on hands 18, 19

and

> 20 and on hand 20 one of the other players made a bad bet. If she

had

> lost and I won I would have advanced. She stood on a stiff

against

> dealer's 3. I had 20. If dealer had made 17, 18 or 19 I would

have

> advanced by $50. Dealer broke. During the rebuy round one of the

pit

> people commented on the girl to the left of me making a good
> tournament play by standing on hard eight with a minimum bet out.
> Unfortunately for me, I was out of position on hand 20. She made

the

> wrong bet behind me letting me tie for third (three of five moved
> on). No redraw for position in the five hand playoff and she made

20

> or 21 on three of the four hands we played. She won three and I

won

> none and was forced all in on hand four so I was tapped out. She
> eventually made the final table.
> >
> >
> > From: jaydavidson118
> > To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: 9/17/2004 1:02:12 AM
> > Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] Majestic blackjack tournament
> >
> >
> > Is anyone else playing in this Sat's blackjack tournament?
> >
> >
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE_Chicago/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vpFREE_Chicago-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE_Chicago/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vpFREE_Chicago-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

···

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@w...> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm astonished to hear you guys even considering blackjack
tournaments.

I'm astonished that you're astonished;-)

Given the nature of blackjack how could you possibly
devise a tournament that rewards skill while being equitable to all
players?

Are you saying tournament blackjack does not reward skill?

Even if your entry is free it
still costs you money to commute and isn't your time worth something?

Well, let's see... If I consider my total gambling earnings this year vs. total hours spent playing/studying/travelling, my time is worth maybe a dollar an hour. :wink: I suspect most of us do it because it is fun.

···

At 05:38 PM 9/20/2004, you wrote:

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, Chandler <omnibibulous1@c...>
wrote:

>I'm astonished to hear you guys even considering blackjack
>tournaments.

I'm astonished that you're astonished;-)

> Given the nature of blackjack how could you possibly
>devise a tournament that rewards skill while being equitable to all
>players?

Are you saying tournament blackjack does not reward skill?

Yes, if it has a poor format. But that's true for many tournaments
organized by casinos. They predominantly have formats for the benefit
of the organizers not the players. Discrete events like a dealt
blackjack are a huge factor in very short blackjack tournaments. The
only ways to overcome inequities is to either have everyone playing
the same hands or play a statistically significant number of hands so
that luck is normalized away. Otherwise it's just a case of who gets
the luckiest deals/hits. I have seen some tournaments in Vegas that
span 3+ days and they could very well be playing enough hands so that
skill becomes the predominant factor (and stamina! :-)).

> Even if your entry is free it
>still costs you money to commute and isn't your time worth something?

Well, let's see... If I consider my total gambling earnings this

year vs.

total hours spent playing/studying/travelling, my time is worth maybe a
dollar an hour. :wink: I suspect most of us do it because it is fun.

Well I'm still a little over a $1/hour despite having scuffled in
recent months, but to me fun and profit need not be mutually exclusive
although it sometimes looks like they are. :slight_smile:

···

At 05:38 PM 9/20/2004, you wrote:

I accept as a given that the organization of a tournament by a casino is done for that casino's benefit (in one way or another), whether it is poorly formatted or not. I also accept as a given that there is a strong element of luck in any one tournament. Sometimes it's all luck in the case of slot tournaments, but EV is EV and that should be reflected in tournament play over time. I'm not real familiar with tournament strategy for blackjack, but I would think there is a degree of skill required to maximize EV that is quite different than standard blackjack play... which is not to say that luck is not essential in doing well in any given tournament;-)

···

At 03:49 PM 9/21/2004, you wrote:

Yes, if it has a poor format. But that's true for many tournaments
organized by casinos. They predominantly have formats for the benefit
of the organizers not the players. Discrete events like a dealt
blackjack are a huge factor in very short blackjack tournaments. The
only ways to overcome inequities is to either have everyone playing
the same hands or play a statistically significant number of hands so
that luck is normalized away. Otherwise it's just a case of who gets
the luckiest deals/hits. I have seen some tournaments in Vegas that
span 3+ days and they could very well be playing enough hands so that
skill becomes the predominant factor (and stamina! :-)).