vpFREE2 Forums

M Progressives

Recent discussions here revolving around the M's giant progressive experiment succinctly underscore the basic differences between VP pros and recreational players.

To the the progressive oriented pro, math is math. 103% is 103%. The pro will learn the strategy required to achieve that return, allocate the funds necessary and go to work. And for the pro it is work.

The rec player views VP as a game. Not work. Play. Competent rec players,of course, are not idiots. They know VP math and are skilled enough to hold their own on a couple (or several) favorite games. Given the choice between a high variance/high value progressive and a selection of lower (tho still decent) EV/less volatile games, they often
choose to accept small theoretical profits (or even minimal losses) for
the expectation of more play. Like that disco queen in "I Love The Nightlife", these players want action. (Also not too many have the bankroll, butt muscles and stamina needed for the often tedious high variance progressive chase.)

It seems to me that a casino like the M could easily accommodate pros,
rec players and everybody in between. In addition to the progressives already in place, management could offer a selection of 99+% games, and then watch the bottom line effects of the behavior of the rec players attracted by them.

The behavioral aspect I'm referring to involves the rec players differing reactions to the "walk away" hand.

Until the progressive they're after is hit, most pros don't have walk away hands. A 400 or 600 or 800 credit hit is just a little less they'll have to take out of their pocket for awhile as the royla pursuit continues. Rec players, on the other hand, handle these "mini-jackpots" differently. Some cash out quickly and walk away --- ending the session. Others will risk only another 50 or 100 credits in hopes that the RNG will remain favorably random just a little longer. Some will keep playing util a session goal is reached, or it's dinner time, or whatever.

Some unknown number of these session winners might gravitate toward the giant progressive, seeing it as a "Hey lets' take a shot" investment opportunity funded by cash they didn't have an hour before.

If the availability of better non-progressive games delivers more (non-professional) traffic to the progressives and/or significantly increases VP play (and hold) in general, management would know they'd made a good marketing decision.

I see a lot of rec players on these boards who love to play Double Double Bonus or any other equivalent volatile bonus game available rather than play 9/6 JOB because they consider JOB to be boring even when the paytable they are playing does not have a return near that of 9/6 JOB.

So I think these games may work.

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: wha724@comcast.net
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 16:34:15 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: M Progressives

Recent discussions here revolving around the M's giant progressive experiment succinctly underscore the basic differences between VP pros and recreational players.

To the the progressive oriented pro, math is math. 103% is 103%. The pro will learn the strategy required to achieve that return, allocate the funds necessary and go to work. And for the pro it is work.

The rec player views VP as a game. Not work. Play. Competent rec players,of course, are not idiots. They know VP math and are skilled enough to hold their own on a couple (or several) favorite games. Given the choice between a high variance/high value progressive and a selection of lower (tho still decent) EV/less volatile games, they often
choose to accept small theoretical profits (or even minimal losses) for
the expectation of more play. Like that disco queen in "I Love The Nightlife", these players want action. (Also not too many have the bankroll, butt muscles and stamina needed for the often tedious high variance progressive chase.)

It seems to me that a casino like the M could easily accommodate pros,
rec players and everybody in between. In addition to the progressives already in place, management could offer a selection of 99+% games, and then watch the bottom line effects of the behavior of the rec players attracted by them.

The behavioral aspect I'm referring to involves the rec players differing reactions to the "walk away" hand.

Until the progressive they're after is hit, most pros don't have walk away hands. A 400 or 600 or 800 credit hit is just a little less they'll have to take out of their pocket for awhile as the royla pursuit continues. Rec players, on the other hand, handle these "mini-jackpots" differently. Some cash out quickly and walk away --- ending the session. Others will risk only another 50 or 100 credits in hopes that the RNG will remain favorably random just a little longer. Some will keep playing util a session goal is reached, or it's dinner time, or whatever.

Some unknown number of these session winners might gravitate toward the giant progressive, seeing it as a "Hey lets' take a shot" investment opportunity funded by cash they didn't have an hour before.

If the availability of better non-progressive games delivers more (non-professional) traffic to the progressives and/or significantly increases VP play (and hold) in general, management would know they'd made a good marketing decision.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Peter, I couldn't agree more with everything you've stated in the accurate summation
below. I think that you've hit the nail squarely on the head, with every point that you
made. Thanks for a GREAT post!

~Babe

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From: jaywilly240 <wha724@comcast.net>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: M Progressives
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 2, 2011, 9:34 AM

<<Recent discussions here revolving around the M's giant progressive experiment succinctly underscore the basic differences between VP pros and recreational players.

To the progressive oriented pro, math is math. 103% is 103%. The pro will learn the strategy required to achieve that return, allocate the funds necessary and go to work.
And for the pro it is work.........................................................

...............It seems to me that a casino like the M could easily accommodate pros,
rec players and everybody in between. In addition to the progressives already in place, management could offer a selection of 99+% games, and then watch the bottom line effects of the behavior of the rec players attracted by them.....................

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jaywilly240" <wha
In addition to the progressives already in place, management could offer a selection of 99+% games, and then watch the bottom line effects of the behavior of the rec players attracted by them.

What you say would make a whole lot of sense BUT for the fact that M already offers a shitload of "99+% games", to wit 8-5 BP.
Those expecting 100 play NSUD with .30 cashback plus welfare checks, plus comps plus promotions are just whistling Dixie.

My bad. Should've said 99.5%+. And as I did at least imply, a broader selection of variances would work better. Many rec players find BP and JOB boring and prefer higher volatility games like DDB, SDB, TDB, Super Aces, etc.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jaywilly240" <wha
In addition to the progressives already in place, management could offer a selection of 99+% games, and then watch the bottom line effects of the behavior of the rec players attracted by them.
>
>

What you say would make a whole lot of sense BUT for the fact that M already offers a shitload of "99+% games", to wit 8-5 BP.
Those expecting 100 play NSUD with .30 cashback plus welfare checks, plus comps plus promotions are just whistling Dixie.