ANTI-TERRORIST LAW: Parts of Patriot Act rejected
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/5yn6p">
http://tinyurl.com/5yn6p</a>
LVRJ - Judge: FBI can't force casinos to release records
vpFREE wrote:
ANTI-TERRORIST LAW: Parts of Patriot Act rejected
Personally, I couldn't care less if the FBI, NSA, CIA, IRS, or any other governmental agency knows where and when I fly or where and when I stay. I just can't see how that power would be abused or the information misused, and if it somehow helps in the fight against terrorism, then they're welcome to it. In fact, I welcome all security efforts, and I think there are too many folks overreacting with a lot of paranoia. Las Vegas was thought to be a possible terrorist target, and probably still is. If the typical folks on this group think that the government is somehow going to adversely affect their lives by searching through such records for possible clues, then they desperately need to get a grip on reality. Can you imagine: "Oh, look! Stop the presses. Harry Porter has just flown to Vegas! Now let's see what we can do to screw with him." Let's not be silly.
Bill Velek
IMHO. How many times has this been said?
For the prividge of living in a civilized society, we all must "give up" some of
our "inherent freedoms and liberties", to which we are due, to have the
security to live the lives that we would like to. By the same token, it is the
responsibility of the "government" in civilized societies to bear the
responsibility of acting in a proper manner, with the freedoms which we have
given up to them.
Two questions immediately come to my mind.
1. Where does one draw the line, saying how much freedom and liberty is
lost to gain the security that we would like to have?
2. Do we trust the government to be properly responsible?
If everyone was perfect, some would say that we do not need traffic lights and
stop signs. But, the traffic lights and stop signs bring some order and some
safety to our lives, while restricting our freedom to drive wherever and
whenever we wish.
We are all individuals and have our own personal ideas as to how much
"freedom" we wish to "give away" and how much "security" we would like to
have. Each of us also have different ideas as to how responsible our
government really is.
How do we determine what is "best" for all of us?
Where is a good "Soloman" when you need him? LOL
Just some "food for thought" as you play toward your next Royal....
.....bl
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:
vpFREE wrote:
Personally, I couldn't care less if the FBI, NSA, CIA, IRS, or any other
governmental agency knows where and when I fly or where and when I
stay. I just can't see how that power would be abused or the
information misused, and if it somehow helps in the fight against
terrorism, then they're welcome to it. In fact, I welcome all security
efforts, and I think there are too many folks overreacting with a lot of
paranoia. Las Vegas was thought to be a possible terrorist target, and
probably still is. If the typical folks on this group think that the
government is somehow going to adversely affect their lives by searching
through such records for possible clues, then they desperately need to
get a grip on reality. Can you imagine: "Oh, look! Stop the presses.
Harry Porter has just flown to Vegas! Now let's see what we can do to
screw with him." Let's not be silly.Bill Velek
vpFREE wrote:
> ANTI-TERRORIST LAW: Parts of Patriot Act rejected
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5yn6pPersonally, I couldn't care less if the FBI, NSA, CIA, IRS, or any
other
governmental agency knows where and when I fly or where and when I
stay. I just can't see how that power would be abused or the
information misused,
As a judge & as a fellow gun owner, you should know better. Our
Founding Fathers did not trust goverment, thats where the concept of
checks & balances came from.
The fact they can demand ANY information( including the legal
purchase of any self defense weapon) about any body & throw in jail
any body who told me that the my goverment was spying on me is
disgusting, and if that is not abuse or misuse of power what is?
Without personal freedoms , what is the goverment protecting? My
property? thanks to the 2nd admendment i can do that.
When such diverse groups as the NRA, ACLU, & the Libertarian party,
along with former Ga congressman Bob Barr, The mag. National Review,
& more can agree that this the most dangerous attack on our freedoms
it makes you think.
I once was ask by my state to register a certin type of gun with the
promise that they would NEVER use this info against me, 1 year later
they demanded i {& others) surrender the gun or face 1 year in jail &
10k in fines.
I am not interested in starting a flame war with you Mr Veleck, your
ablity to use a 100 words when 10 will do is intimindating ; ) and it
is free country,(unless you want to marry somebody the STATE dont
approve of) your point of view is respected, just not agreed with.
trusting any goverment is unamerican
"The scariest thing you can hear is I am from the goverment & i am
here to help" Ronald Regan ( i hope i got it right)
M J Perry
PS sorry about using this forum for something other than VP,
the thread about casino smoke had me ROFL .
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety."
Ben Franklin
···
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
mklpryy24 wrote:
> vpFREE wrote:
>
> > ANTI-TERRORIST LAW: Parts of Patriot Act rejected
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/5yn6p
>
> Personally, I couldn't care less if the FBI, NSA, CIA, IRS, or any
other
> governmental agency knows where and when I fly or where and when I
> stay. I just can't see how that power would be abused or the
> information misused,As a judge & as a fellow gun owner, you should know better. Our
Founding Fathers did not trust goverment, thats where the concept of
checks & balances came from.The fact they can demand ANY information( including the legal
purchase of any self defense weapon) about any body & throw in jail
any body who told me that the my goverment was spying on me is
disgusting, and if that is not abuse or misuse of power what is?
snip
Well, I wasn't condoning _everything_ that might be an abuse of power; instead, I was referring only to our government checking lists of names of people who have traveled on airlines and/or stayed at hotels. I don't view that as muck of a risk to our personal freedoms or much of a violation of privacy (if, indeed, it is _any_ violation of privacy). I certainly understand that things can gradually drift in the direction of things that _do_ matter, but we must be vigilante to see that that doesn't happen; but throwing a hissy fit over something as trivial, in my opinion, as this is, is not appropriate is these days and times. And you are correct that I am a gun owner, and I am particularly strong in defense of the 2nd Amendment (but that's another story). I also strongly defend all of our personal rights and freedoms, even to a shocking point in some areas, considering my very conservative slant (that's also another story). But despite my significantly libertarian views, I try to logically sort out what is relatively important and what is relatively trivial. I consider checkings lists of passengers and hotel guests to be pretty darn trivial, at least at this point. There are people who scream that prohibiting them from burning the American flag is an encroachment upon their freedom of speech and expression; nonsense!!! For 200 odd years people respected the flag, and no doubt there have been laws on our books for most of that time to ban flag-burning. Suddenly the S.Ct. decrees that a person has the right to burn the flag, and an effort to restore the status quo by an amendment to the Constitution is suddenly met with the ridiculous claim that this would be robbing people of an important right. Why do I care one way or the other? Well, besides the fact that as a veteran, it personally offends me -- which isn't really important anyway -- the main reason is because you have the extremely rare jackass who can't seem to find any other way to express himself other than the sensationalism of flag-burning to draw attention to himself; as I understand it, Bill Clinton spent $20,000 of Arkansas taxpayer's money to send State Police to guard and protect an idiot who announced in advance that he would burn the American Flag at the Arkansas State Capitol. Well, the same thing happened a year later -- same guy and another twenty-grand in taxes down the drain. Hell, I wish the son of a bitch would have said he was going to do it everyday. How long do you think Clinton would have spent twenty grand every single day so some idiot could publicly burn a flag. If I would have been governor, I would not have spent an extra penny, the idiot would have taken his chances with whatever outcome, and that would have been the end of it except that I'd have twenty grand to spend on more important things like education, roads, caring for the elderly, etc.
Sometimes we've just got to exercise a little common sense and be reasonable.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:
Note the defining adjectives, "essential" and "temporary". Again, it is a matter
of opinion and we all have our own "comfort zones".
Of course, we all agree that old Ben was a very intelligent person, but, as all
humans are, not infallible.
.....bl
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, steve bork <stevebork@y...> wrote:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety."
Ben Franklin
bornloser1537 wrote:
Note the defining adjectives, "essential" and "temporary". Again, it is a matter
of opinion and we all have our own "comfort zones".Of course, we all agree that old Ben was a very intelligent person, but, as all
humans are, not infallible......bl
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
> little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
> safety." > Ben Franklin
Well, I'm not ready to concede that someone from Philadelphia isn't infallible.
Bill Velek (born and raised in Philadelphia, ... and my name is forever recorded in the Smithsonian Institute for speaking at Independence Mall in Philadelphia in commemoration of Free Speech -- and I have a badge to prove it 
Cheers.
Bill Velek
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, steve bork <stevebork@y...> wrote:
Note the defining adjectives, "essential" and "temporary". Again,
it is a matter
of opinion and we all have our own "comfort zones".
Of course, we all agree that old Ben was a very intelligent person,
but, as all
humans are, not infallible.
.....bl
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
> little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
> safety."
> Ben Franklin
I find it a disturbing trend that we Americans are willing to undress
and spread our cheeks under the eye of the government in order to
theoretically enhance our security. Moreover, if you object to this
treatment, you are labeled "unpatriotic" (as if insisting on one's
constitutional rights was somehow un-American!). The fact that
Vladimir Putin is not at this moment swinging at the end of a rope
indicates that the Russian people feel the same way. Europe, with the
exception of Britain, has taken the course of falling to its knees and
saying to the terrorists, "We'll do whatever you want, just please
please don't kill us." What should we be doing?
It would seem childishly obvious to put all those of Arab extraction
and/or Muslim faith under intense and lasting scrutiny, both US
citizens and visiting foreign nationals. Let's face it: the next guy
to scream "God is Great!" and detonate himself in a public place isn't
likely to be named Wong or Svensson. The only reason we haven't done
this is our lingering memories of the WWII Japanese-American
internments. Since WWII was fought basically for the survival of
civilization, I wonder if the deportations and internments weren't to
some extent justified.
So i guess my viewpoint is: If anyone's civil liberties have to be
sacrificed, let it be the Muslims and Arabs in this country who
continue to offer the "infatida", "jihad", and "cold blooded mass
murder" tacit support by not rising up in protest against the outrages
committed by their brothers in the Middle East. They also continue to
send money to the terrorists, and offer them shelter and support when
they sneak into this country.
And if you react in horror to this scenario, let me counter with
another scenario: you and your two beloved children are on a
cross-country airline flight to see your beloved elderly mother. You
notice that the man sitting directly across the aisle from you has a
swarthy complexion, a couple day's growth of beard....you steal a
glance at his boarding pass, and see that his last name is
"Hassan"....he seems to be fidgety and nervous and doesn't talk to
anyone else....you note that he's sweating a little bit even though
it's relatively cool on the plane...
If you can tell me that you would just shrug and figure that he must
be a New York yeshiva student who's afraid of flying, and go back to
your needlepoint, well, you're a more trusting soul than I am.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, steve bork <stevebork@y...> wrote:
Hi!
I, too, was born and raised in Philadelphia. And, as a graduate
(undergraduate, at least, C '64) from the University of Pennsylvania, Ben has
always held a special place in my heart.
LOL. And, isn't that really the Smithsonian Institution (quite a sticking point for
those Harvard guys at SAO, i.e., the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)?
.....bl
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:
Bill Velek (born and raised in Philadelphia, ... and my name is forever
recorded in the Smithsonian Institute for speaking at Independence Mall
in Philadelphia in commemoration of Free Speech -- and I have a badge to
prove itCheers.
Bill Velek
Whew! What a diatribe!
However, further discourse is useless. You have obviously not been what I
have been writing.
I will go back to thinking about VP, the real reason for this group to exist, and
contemplate my next series of Royal's. I will not reply further to this thread.
......bl
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:
···
I find it a disturbing trend that we Americans are willing to undress
and spread our cheeks under the eye of the government in order to
theoretically enhance our security.
bornloser1537 wrote:
Hi!
I, too, was born and raised in Philadelphia. And, as a graduate
(undergraduate, at least, C '64) from the University of Pennsylvania, Ben has
always held a special place in my heart.
Memories. I seem to recall that I walked past that campus on the way to Drexel where I started out pursuing a degree in electrical engineering.
Grew up in Kensington, a few blocks from York Street and Aramingo Avenue. Went to North Catholic.
LOL. And, isn't that really the Smithsonian Institution (quite a sticking point for
those Harvard guys at SAO, i.e., the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)?
I think either term is correct English, although apparently the main building and organization actually does use "Institution" rather than "Institute", but they do have a program that uses the term "Institute", i.e., "Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute". I guess because I'm from Philly where the Franklin Institute is located, I just gravitated toward that word. I'm not really familiar with the Smithsonian.
Cheers.
Bill
Yes, but one recent terrorist was named McVeigh and his co-conspirater was Nichols. He was as clean-cut a white boy as they come. Im afraid theyll let another one like him on a plane while their busy harassing a black guy who has an Arabic name.
Ned C.
The Wild Joker
···
rockofjello333 <rockofjello333@yahoo.com> wrote:
Let's face it: the next guy
to scream "God is Great!" and detonate himself in a public place isn't
likely to be named Wong or Svensson.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]