LVRJ - Casino MonteLago Has Financial Problems

[jt417552]

In a message dated 6/10/2007 7:21:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
fromthevault@yahoo.com writes:

I checked the vpFREE glossary and could not locate a definition of
a "known burnout artist". Is this someone on drugs? Or someone that
attacks great paytables and promotions?

..............
That's because it's in the new edition of Webster's online dictionary...

_Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)_
(http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - _Cite This Source_
(http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=artist&ia=luna)
rurnout-art·ist
(https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/artist) /burnout-ˈɑrtɪst/
Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[buuurn-oot-ahr-tist] Pronunciation Key -
Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who produces works in any of the burning arts that are
primarily subject to aesthetic criteria. 2. a person who practices to
perfection or nearly so one of the fine video poker games, esp. a flame throwing
artist or fire sculptorist. 3. a person whose trade or profession
requires a knowledge of flame design, match striking, Bic flicking, etc.: a
commercial burnout-artist. 4. a person who works in one of the burnout arts, as
an actor, musician, or singer [but not that Singer]; a public performer: a
flaming mime artist; or flaming sword swallowing artist of the video poker
dance. 5. a person whose work exhibits exceptional skill and brags to other
burnout artists with full knowledge that casino personal are watching all
posts and won't be stupid forever. 6. a person who is expert at trickery or
deceit: He's an artist with cards or He's a Mickey Crimmster. 7. Obsolete.
a burnt out burnout artisan who digs his own grave by burning out plays then
swells with words telling of same.

···

____________________________________
  
[Origin: 1575–85; < MF burne artiste < ML artista burne master of burne
arts. See _fire play eater_ (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=art) 1,
_-ist_ (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=-ist) ]

—Synonyms 1. Professional Burnout Artist, flame artisan are persons having
superior skill or ability, or who are capable of producing superior work until
casino roundup time. A burnout artist is a person engaged in some type of
fine fire art. An artisan is engaged in a cash grabbing or withdrawing money
from an ATM that's on fire.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[WP_SF]

The latter.

It's kind of embarrassing we're even discussing it's meaning. It
should be obvious to all but the rankest amateur.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, jt417552@... wrote:

In a message dated 6/10/2007 7:21:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
fromthevault@... writes:

I checked the vpFREE glossary and could not locate a definition of
a "known burnout artist". Is this someone on drugs? Or someone that
attacks great paytables and promotions?

__________________________________________________________________________

paladingaming.net

[Charles]

Well, someone has be that amateur and I guess it is me. If it indeed
was so "obvious", then put it in the glossary. When someone posts
meth addict and burnout in the same post, the "obvious" conclusion
is drugs.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

The latter.

It's kind of embarrassing we're even discussing it's meaning. It
should be obvious to all but the rankest amateur.

> In a message dated 6/10/2007 7:21:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight

Time,

> fromthevault@ writes:
>
> I checked the vpFREE glossary and could not locate a definition

of

> a "known burnout artist". Is this someone on drugs? Or someone

that

···

> attacks great paytables and promotions?

[Keith_Barham]

I haven't seen it clearly defined yet, other than the original sarcasm
and later attempts at the same. I am all for sarcasm, though a
non-standard term needs some description first.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@...> wrote:

Well, someone has be that amateur and I guess it is me. If it indeed
was so "obvious", then put it in the glossary. When someone posts
meth addict and burnout in the same post, the "obvious" conclusion
is drugs.

[Bob_Dancer1]

Keith wrote: I haven't seen it clearly defined yet, other than the
original sarcasm and later attempts at the same. I am all for sarcasm,
though a non-standard term needs some description first.

The term "burnout artist" was derogatory. It was used to describe a
person who plays a positive situation so heavily that the casino removes
the situation. At Casino Montelago in particular, the casino never had a
lot of business and most of that business was for quarters. One day a
week several expert players played heavily (perhaps $1 10 Play, or the
like) at an advantage due to a 5x point situation. The net result was
that the casino removed the decent games. Whether they barred the
players or not, I don't know. I know several players who played this,
including one very well respected poster on this site. Someone who would
be a self-proclaimed burnout artist would be Mickey Crimm who has stated
here that there is no such thing as overplaying an advantage.

It's always a guess how much positive play a casino can tolerate. After
a good situation is gone, it's easy to go back and say "that was too
much," but before the tap is turned off, you just don't know. Casinos
are run by human managers, who pay various amounts of attention to these
things and have various tolerances for letting customers win.

The term can also be used in a sour grapes sense, such as "I never got a
chance to play the $100 3-coin FPDW at Caesars Palace before burnout
artists killed it." There will never be a precise definition because
ANYONE who played a good situation that is no longer around could be
called a burnout artist by someone annoyed that they didn't get the
chance to play it (and hence become a burnout artist from someone else's
point of view).

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

[Charles]

Let me say for the record that I appreciate the courteous and honest
response. I honestly did not know the term burnout artist; when i
was in scholl, burnouts were known users of illegal drugs. Maybe
that is the same now, but I am talking years ago.

I play almost daily; I take my $300 to one of the local casinos;
play the best games; and hope to walk out winner. This is not to
take away from the pros; if they can buy a new Mercedes just from
playing VP, then more power to them. But I cannot play much more
than two to three hours a day; I get tired and lose focus.

As a sidenote, the last time I was at the Suncoast, there was one
player at the OP machines at the bottom of the escalator. The other
machines were open. This guy was bald; had an iPod; and perhaps a
baseball cap. I actually thought of that guy when I read the
original post.

The term "burnout artist" was derogatory. It was used to describe a
person who plays a positive situation so heavily that the casino

removes

the situation. At Casino Montelago in particular, the casino never

had a

lot of business and most of that business was for quarters. One

day a

week several expert players played heavily (perhaps $1 10 Play, or

the

like) at an advantage due to a 5x point situation. The net result

was

that the casino removed the decent games. Whether they barred the
players or not, I don't know. I know several players who played

this,

including one very well respected poster on this site. Someone who

would

be a self-proclaimed burnout artist would be Mickey Crimm who has

stated

here that there is no such thing as overplaying an advantage.

It's always a guess how much positive play a casino can tolerate.

After

a good situation is gone, it's easy to go back and say "that was

too

much," but before the tap is turned off, you just don't know.

Casinos

are run by human managers, who pay various amounts of attention to

these

things and have various tolerances for letting customers win.

The term can also be used in a sour grapes sense, such as "I never

got a

chance to play the $100 3-coin FPDW at Caesars Palace before

burnout

artists killed it." There will never be a precise definition

because

ANYONE who played a good situation that is no longer around could

be

called a burnout artist by someone annoyed that they didn't get the
chance to play it (and hence become a burnout artist from someone

else's

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@...> wrote:

point of view).

Bob Dancer

[WP_SF]

Sorry, nothing personal meant or directed towards you...I felt like
the term was self explanatory, but if you're playing cheaper, where
full pay games and good situations (by % not $) are easier to find, I
can understand your perspective.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@...> wrote:

Well, someone has be that amateur and I guess it is me. If it indeed
was so "obvious", then put it in the glossary. When someone posts
meth addict and burnout in the same post, the "obvious" conclusion
is drugs.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@> wrote:
>
> The latter.
>
> It's kind of embarrassing we're even discussing it's meaning. It
> should be obvious to all but the rankest amateur.

[Mickey]

Someone who would be a self-proclaimed burnout artist would be
Mickey Crimm who has stated here that there is no such thing as
overplaying an advantage.

What was that movie? Wall Street? Michael Douglas stating
that "Greed is good!"

I remember so many years ago reading Dan Paymar's articles
on "Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs." I used to take it
real easy but what kept happening was the plays kept getting torched
and I wasn't making my fair share of money. Everytime this happened
I would verbally kick myself in the butt for not being the one who
was doing the torching.

So I finally joined them.

As one friend, who will burn the whole casino down if it is a strong
enough play, puts it: "Why should I stretch out making $20,000 over
a few weeks or months, taking the chance that someone else will burn
it down, when I can do it in a few days and then move on to something
else."

Two things, Bob.

First, the plays I put down and the plays you put down are two
different animals. I have read about many of your plays (you were
the writer) and you probably wouldn't consider my bankroll to be even
a one session bankroll at your level.

Second, I don't consider 8/5 bonus Ten-play with 1.25% cashback to be
a strong play. I would rate it as a mediocre play. If I could play
it in perpetuity it would get a higher rating. But I know the play
ain't going to last so it could get pulled before I show a profit.
Subtract about .9% off that 100.4% and you've got a .5% loss rate
without flopped royal(649,740), flopped quad aces(54,145), and
flopped straight flush(72,193).

So that $120 an hour play on dollar ten-play ($30,000 an hour in
action times .4%) is a $150 an hour loser without the abovementioned
hands.

That's why The Vegas VP pros don't get any competition from me. They
don't have to worry about ole Mickey Crimm burning there plays down.
They're working way too thin an edge for my taste.

Now, give me a play where I'm breakeven or better without the royal,
sometimes I'll take a small loss rate (like .00001%), and the ole
Fremont Street Commando will drag his blowtorch out of storage and
proceed to commit arson.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@...> wrote:

[Bob_Dancer1]

Mickey responded to my comment that he was a self-proclaimed burnout
artist.

In no way were my comments a putdown, Mick. I was trying to explain
Paladin's term (burnout artist) to several people who indicated they had
no idea what the term meant and Paladin was taking the point of view
that the term was self-evident. You seemed to be an apt example as you
had posted your comments on this forum relatively recently and I figured
that most of the readers of my post had already read your comments.

Personally, I do not consider myself a burnout artist --- although
others have accused me of that sometimes. There have been some casinos
that have removed games that I've been playing rather heavily, but other
than $2 Five Play Super Double Bonus at Fiesta Henderson (which was
largely ignored by everyone else even though I wrote about it
extensively), usually the games were played by other pros as well. It's
very hard to judge beforehand how much action a casino is comfortable
with, as these decisions are always made by groups of human beings and
different people have different tolerances, and the dynamics of a group
decision are very hard to predict. If you limit yourself to games where
you have the edge, sometimes this is going to happen.

I have been "effectively banned" from a few casinos, like the MGM Grand
(which I explain in "Million Dollar Video Poker"). I'm not entirely 86'd
but they do restrict my slot club benefits sufficiently that I now
voluntarily stay away. Unfortunately they now own half the Strip. I
would prefer to have unfettered access to all casinos (as the promotions
and giveaways are very lucrative and a lot of fun), but being $3 million
ahead overall is better than having this access. I certainly would not
be willing to give back $1 million to the MGM Grand so I could play
there once more.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

[shortpaydan]

thought out, to the point post Ive read here! Evreything you wrote, in
my estiamtion, is absoultly true. By the way, the DanceMan himself,
directly or inderectly, has burned down so many plays he couldve
easily beat out that kid for the role of the "Human Torch" in the
Fantastic Four films!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

sometimes I'll take a small loss rate (like .00001%), and the ole
Fremont Street Commando will drag his blowtorch out of storage and
proceed to commit arson.

That why I love you so much, Micky! That was probably the most well

[Mickey]

>
> sometimes I'll take a small loss rate (like .00001%), and the ole
> Fremont Street Commando will drag his blowtorch out of storage and
> proceed to commit arson.

>That why I love you so much, Micky! That was probably the most well
thought out, to the point post Ive read here! Evreything you wrote,

in

my estiamtion, is absoultly true. By the way, the DanceMan himself,
directly or inderectly, has burned down so many plays he couldve
easily beat out that kid for the role of the "Human Torch" in the
Fantastic Four films!

Thanks for the compliment.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "shortpaydan" <shortpaydan@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote: