Replies to David/yahoo0919/Bob S.
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David wrote:
last time i was at the LVH was in Oct 2003. I played $4k/day for 4
days and hit 2 royals (1 royal on 2 different days) on .25 10play
JoB.
I received an offer for 4days/3 nights, $50 food credit, and 2 tix
for shows (sounds like the HOTEL marketing offer you described).
So why would switching and going thru casino marketing be better?
The missing bit of info that would clearly identify where that offer
came from is whether or not there's a nominal charge for your offer.
If it came from hotel marketing there typically a charge of something
like $90-$120 charge, which of course is an excellent deal.
On your play it could be either, although I'm not familiar with C5
(room only) offers extended with these terms . (But this is exactly
what the hotel marketing offers sound like, especially if they toss in
$25 of slot credits with it).
Assuming it is a hotel marketing offer, here's the scoop: These
offers are extended to players who pop in and give them some play.
The primarily purpose is to get some butts into their rooms that'll
give them a decent amount of play vs. the convention guest who'll risk
$100 at most the entire stay. (Keep in mind that on the $16K of play
you describe they're figuring on holding $600+ from most players on
average.)
But if you do give them $4k-$5K of vp for each night of your stay,
logged before checkout, you're definitely in the running to have that
room for free. All it takes is a pop into the host office and a quick
question to see if you're eligible (a reasonable stop if you think
you're even close). Plus, a room comp will definitely put you on
their radar for future free offers.
The catch is that hotel marketing offers are extended by the hotel
operation which is fully distinct from casino ops. A casino host
essentially doesn't have the discretion to comp that offer in my
experience.
So, if you think your future play will warrant a room comp, you're far
better off calling a casino host and telling them that you booked in
on a hotel offer but would be interested in converting to a stay at
"casino rate" if you stand a chance at conversion to a room comp
before checkout based on your play. Keep in mind that those show
tickets won't be gratis in this case and you'll lose that $50 food
comp (although there's a nomninal chance that they'll be willing to
comp at least some food and beverage charges at check-out in addition
to what you earn at the kiosk if that's not sufficient).
They'll give you a straight answer. It might even be worth a shot in
any case since there's always the possibility they'll offer you the
comp upfront after all (although on short notice like this and a
weekend stay, that's unlikely). Just keep in mind a casino rate is
likely to run you around $60/night and you won't have that food credit
going into the trip.
Use your judgement about value here. You may be better off sticking
with a hotel offer if you want the flexibility of not playing up to
what it takes to get a casino comp. (No player should up the ante on
their play merely for the sake of a comp. More often than not you'll
put your self up for a loss much greater than any comp is worth.)
- Harry
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yahoo0919 wrote:
I am not so interested in asking for comps but I REALLY like the
offers I have gotten. They sound pretty standard: 3 nights/$50
food/show/minimal gambling $. One was free, the next was $109.
I have stayed the LVH twice (once free) and gambled three times in
the past 9 months. I have the $109 trip in May. My play is
consistently in the $2-3k/day range (but has room to grow--I just
don't find the time usually). I am amazed at these offers for my
small play. (By the way, I have never even thought to introduce
myself to a host and despite the great comments, still don't think
I'm worth their time.)
Do you think the offers will dry up now that I've got the 4 visit
average established as pretty low?
Do you know what it takes to generate such offers? Should I be
booking these through casino marketing? (I just call the number on
the card---whichever department that is).
As you're likely to suspect now, you're getting a hotel marketing
offer. Since your play makes you a very attractive guest from both
the hotel and casino perspective, these offers will keep on coming so
long as you give them at least a couple of hours in the casino during
your entire stay.
These are very respectable offers and I'm wouldn't advise you to play
more simply for the sake of a room comp. However, if you're inclined
to give them $4K-$5K of play for each night you're there anyways, then
you can take some suggestion from the previous reply.
For this trip I'd suggest you leave things as is in any case unless
you feel very strongly that you'll play up to a room comp guideline.
If so, book in on a casino rate as discussed above. If you expect on
your next trip your total play is going to come in at $15K and all you
have in hand is another hotel offer, then definitely call a host and
see what they might be able to do for you. (Don't hold me to that
$15K. But a 3-day total of $20K should definitely provide ample
margin for a comp.)
As Jean Scott suggests, it's always worth asking. Just be prepared to
walk away from a "Sorry" gracefully.
- Harry
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I wrote Bob Sommer:
> It's actually the case, I suspect, that the cashback cut last year
> was definitely in anticipation of a sale in order to avoid
> sticking the new owner with the player unfriendly move.
who replied:
Might be true, but I thought it was to bring them in line, including
the comps account that was not there before, with the rest of the
properties.
No doubt I'm speculating more than a bit. But with LVH's off strip
location, a little extra player inducement vs. Bally's (for example)
isn't unwarranted. Plus, LVH has MUCH lower overhead from which to
fund a cashback boost.
But someone else taking the property might well have a different
perspective and I have little doubt that at the time of the cashback
cut LVH had at least one serious party on the hook. Seems to me that
the interests of an acquirer would take precedence over any inkling of
putting LVH on "parity" with other Caesars properties.
- Harry
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I'm going to add one addition piece of food for thought to earlier
comments.
LVH has a number of rating bases that are used to determine who's
offered what (including tournament and merchandise offers). When it
comes to comp rating the indication is that a 4 trip average is at
work as well as a 3 year theo. I've had indications that daily
coin-in for each trip is the stronger factor.
That raises the question of how that daily average is figured. Well,
just as with another thread on casino accounting of doubles, it's
debatable that anyone knows for certain. I've never been successful
at nailing this down definitively and there's been conflicting info.
That said, I'm inclined to go with reports that your daily average is
determined by the actual number of casino days (6a-6a?) on which you
play. That means if you play on all 4 casino days for which you're on
the property during a 3-night stay, your play will be rated weaker
than someone else who puts in the same amount of play over 3 casino days.
I've had a report from a higher end player I consider VERY reliable
that this is true. They avoid a 4th day of play. I suspect they go
as far as to wrap up any business with a host on their last evening at
the hotel. Nonetheless, they reported that their average was dinged
simply by taking in a final comped breakfast before depature on their
last day - despite having avoided ANY card use that day.
I place a ton of stock in this report so it's something to consider.
That said, I play solidly into my comp rating so I don't sweat the
dilution of my daily average by play on a fourth day.
Keep in mind that I've noted promos, etc. are likely reflect other
rating bases I've cause to believe that total trip play, as well as
cumulative play over several stays, is the factor that counts. This
leads me to suspect that when I asked about the effect of play on a
checkout day, my host was being absolutely truthful in saying that
additional play (even short day play) will always improve a player's
standing.
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This is all offered up for consideration, but be mindful that I'm
playing a little fast and loose, not having a 100% solid handle on the
facts. Plus, after June all this info stands a good chance of being
obsolete.
I'm intentionally glossing over that comp ratings are largely based
upon "3-day trip based", given some reports, and that more extended
trips get converted to a 3-day equivalent to weigh each trip equally.
That's not to suggest you're at any disadvantage in staying over an
extra night or two. Quite the opposite when it comes to some offers.
The info is just intended as an additional "heads up".
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Truth is I've haven't encountered a more convoluted system than LVH.
But that's probably because they're SO MUCH MORE forthcoming with
background info that other properties to their considerable credit
(proably causing themselves headaches in the process).
Players shouldn't get hung up on the details. Bottom line, I really
like my host's advice: Play what you're happy with and you can pretty
much count on LVH giving your due in comps. There are certainly few
casinos that measure up to them (and I pray each day that remains true
going into this summer).
My purpose in spilling out all this detail is there's nothing secret
here and it's mostly for the benefit of those players who are in a
position to fine tune their play, I think getting your hands around
the system is helpful.
I've little doubt my discussions of LVH make it into at least some LVH
underling's hands who probably alternatively snickers and is aghast at
probable mispresentations. Don't walk into the host office holding
something I've written looking for a host comment, much less come
through with something based on it. It won't get you a warm reception
and I'll likely find an icy reception on a future trip. (And now you
know for certain the optimistic heart engaged here.)
It's never in a player's interest to add play sheerly to rate higher
comps. That's a gambler's road to ruin. The reality, however, is we
all have the discretion to comfortably add a couple of hours of play
some days in preference over a darker tan, coming from someone who's
ghostly pale ;), or more sleep, for that matter -- fools that we be!
- Harry
