vpFREE2 Forums

LVH Changes Theo dramatically

Please post anonymously:

Here for weekend LVH invitational tournament where qualification into final
rounds is predicated upon having 2500 in theo.

Previously could play up to 2500 pts & be assured that would have enough
theo (at least 2500) to qualify. Just played 16 hrs of $ Pick'Em & got to 2500
pts & theo is about 1/3 of 2500 needed. Have heard from other players that
theo drop has been even steeper on the $ triple-play JB & the quarter 10-play
JB. Would expect that the other full-pay & near-full-pay vp have also been hit.

Implication is monitor anything based on theo since your theo earning rate
is now much lower. Check how much of your charges are actually covered before
going overboard.

Everything else such as $/pt & cb/pt appears to be the same. Both hosts &
Club Magic were not informed of the changes & were caught off guard by what we
players have figured out so don't take it out on them.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can you explain what theo is? I will be at the Hilton next week and need to know what to expect.
Thanks!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

See FAQ #30a <http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#30a>
for a link to Jean Scott's discussion of Theo.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 26 Jun 2005 at 17:01, Marti Ortiz wrote:

Can you explain what theo is?

I am sure that this is a dumb observation. However, if, as is said in
the original post, "$/pt & cb/pt appears to be the same", what
difference does a change in "theo" mean?

Maybe it is simply the fact that I don't have enough "coin in" during
a LV trip (i.e., $30-50K, over 4-5 days) to make any difference??

.....bl

Please post anonymously:

Would expect that the other full-pay & near-full-pay vp have also
been hit.

Implication is monitor anything based on theo since your theo

earning rate

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@a... wrote:

is now much lower. out so don't take it out on them.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Perhaps the difference is, that, since the LVH is now discounting what
a vp player's theoretical loss amounts to, when they are playing
advantage games (such FP Pick-em) that a much higher coin-in will be
required in order to qualify for RFB, tournament entry etc. That would
be my take on it.

Babe

···

--------------------------------------------
-In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...> wrote:

I am sure that this is a dumb observation. However, if, as is said in
the original post, "$/pt & cb/pt appears to be the same", what
difference does a change in "theo" mean?

Maybe it is simply the fact that I don't have enough "coin in" during
a LV trip (i.e., $30-50K, over 4-5 days) to make any difference??

..bl

Thanks, Babe! Right now, for how we play and what we do, this seems as if it
will not affect us, as things now stand. But, sadly, it seems to be another
indication of the slow deterioration of things for we VP lovers, who go to LV
(and especially to the LVH). For, now, it still remains fun and, I guess, that is
what really matters. What comes tomorrow, I will worry about tomorrow. :slight_smile:

No matter what, we are still looking forward to our early August trip.

bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:

Perhaps the difference is, that, since the LVH is now discounting what
a vp player's theoretical loss amounts to, when they are playing
advantage games (such FP Pick-em) that a much higher coin-in will be
required in order to qualify for RFB, tournament entry etc. That would
be my take on it.

Babe
--------------------------------------------
-In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...>

wrote:

···

I am sure that this is a dumb observation. However, if, as is said in
the original post, "$/pt & cb/pt appears to be the same", what
difference does a change in "theo" mean?

Maybe it is simply the fact that I don't have enough "coin in" during
a LV trip (i.e., $30-50K, over 4-5 days) to make any difference??

..bl

Just a further comment on this change. I got stung by the change
without knowing there had been a change. When I signed in for the
tournament, they specifically said that the play requirements were
the
same as in March. I had my 2500 Players Club points, but was told
Saturday night that I wasn't qualified, and only had about 1050 theo
points. If I had known earlier, I would have gotten the additional
play in, but I could not do it in the short time I had when I was
told. Gloria knew nothing about it until she was asked and she went
and found someone who was able to tell her of the change. My score in
the early qualifying round would have put me in the semi-finals where
there are 36 players and a prize pool of $250,000. I was not allowed
to play, and I was not happy about my $6900+ ev being taken away with
no warning by the stroke of a pen.

I was told that the new theo rate on the triple play 9/6 Jacks is
1.35%. In March it was at least 3.2%. I have no way of knowing if it
was higher than that, but I believe I was told in the past that it
was
4%. Several years ago I was told that you needed a $1700 theoretical
loss to qualify as C-2. I am sure that requirement is now higher but
I
don't know how much. Assuming it went up to $2500 for C-2, then you
needed to play about $21K per day with a theo of 4%, but you would
need to play about $62000 coin-in per day with the new theo of 1.35%
for that level. Excuse me, but we are talking about the LVH here.

I have an offer from LVH for $600 in promotional chips that has the
following on it: "A MINIMUM OF 4 HOURS OF RATED PLAY IS REQUIRED AT
YOUR AVERAGE HISTORY LEVEL PRIOR TO RECEIVING YOUR PROMOTIONAL
CHIPS."
If the requirement is for coin-in, it is no problem, but if it is for
theo, then there is no way that I can find a playable machine where I
can jam that much money through to have an hourly theo equal to the
theo I obtained at the old rate. I'll check it further.

I received my September mailer from the Hilton today, and the $200
bonus cash that I have been receiving every month for quite a while
is
gone. Zero---nada.

I have the bad feeling that LVH is not going to be a visitors play
anymore. I hope that is not true, but it seems to be the case.

Nevertheless, the $ single line NSUD Royal eased the pain a little.<g>

Here for weekend LVH invitational tournament where qualification

into final

rounds is predicated upon having 2500 in theo.

Previously could play up to 2500 pts & be assured that would have

enough

theo (at least 2500) to qualify. Just played 16 hrs of $ Pick'Em &

got to 2500

pts & theo is about 1/3 of 2500 needed. Have heard from other

players that

theo drop has been even steeper on the $ triple-play JB & the

quarter 10-play

JB. Would expect that the other full-pay & near-full-pay vp have

also been hit.

Last fall I believe the theo was 4% on the 10 play 9/6. I was playing abt
25k/day at that time, almost totally on the 9/6 ten play, and my daily theo
was abt $1,000. Since then (4 trips) my play has abt doubled including a
fair amt of $1 slot action, courtesy of a friend of mine, but my theo is now
only abt $1,700.

JAS

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "ozymandias77096" <ugwf@hal-pc.org>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 6:08 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: LVH Changes Theo dramatically

Just a further comment on this change. I got stung by the change
without knowing there had been a change. When I signed in for the
tournament, they specifically said that the play requirements were
the
same as in March. I had my 2500 Players Club points, but was told
Saturday night that I wasn't qualified, and only had about 1050 theo
points. If I had known earlier, I would have gotten the additional
play in, but I could not do it in the short time I had when I was
told. Gloria knew nothing about it until she was asked and she went
and found someone who was able to tell her of the change. My score in
the early qualifying round would have put me in the semi-finals where
there are 36 players and a prize pool of $250,000. I was not allowed
to play, and I was not happy about my $6900+ ev being taken away with
no warning by the stroke of a pen.

I was told that the new theo rate on the triple play 9/6 Jacks is
1.35%. In March it was at least 3.2%. I have no way of knowing if it
was higher than that, but I believe I was told in the past that it
was
4%. Several years ago I was told that you needed a $1700 theoretical
loss to qualify as C-2. I am sure that requirement is now higher but
I
don't know how much. Assuming it went up to $2500 for C-2, then you
needed to play about $21K per day with a theo of 4%, but you would
need to play about $62000 coin-in per day with the new theo of 1.35%
for that level. Excuse me, but we are talking about the LVH here.

I have an offer from LVH for $600 in promotional chips that has the
following on it: "A MINIMUM OF 4 HOURS OF RATED PLAY IS REQUIRED AT
YOUR AVERAGE HISTORY LEVEL PRIOR TO RECEIVING YOUR PROMOTIONAL
CHIPS."
If the requirement is for coin-in, it is no problem, but if it is for
theo, then there is no way that I can find a playable machine where I
can jam that much money through to have an hourly theo equal to the
theo I obtained at the old rate. I'll check it further.

I received my September mailer from the Hilton today, and the $200
bonus cash that I have been receiving every month for quite a while
is
gone. Zero---nada.

I have the bad feeling that LVH is not going to be a visitors play
anymore. I hope that is not true, but it seems to be the case.

Nevertheless, the $ single line NSUD Royal eased the pain a little.<g>

>
> Here for weekend LVH invitational tournament where qualification
into final
> rounds is predicated upon having 2500 in theo.
>
> Previously could play up to 2500 pts & be assured that would have
enough
> theo (at least 2500) to qualify. Just played 16 hrs of $ Pick'Em &
got to 2500
> pts & theo is about 1/3 of 2500 needed. Have heard from other
players that
> theo drop has been even steeper on the $ triple-play JB & the
quarter 10-play
> JB. Would expect that the other full-pay & near-full-pay vp have
also been hit.

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bornloser1537 wrote:

Thanks, Babe! Right now, for how we play and what we do, this seems
as if it will not affect us, as things now stand.

I can't speak authoritatively, but I suspect that invites for
tournaments and other promos (such as the shopping events) are based
on theo. This may very well impact you significantly if you regularly
take advantage of these events.

- Harry