vpFREE2 Forums

LVA Question of the Day - 9 MAY 2008

#1

In fact, I have. I now think even less of you non-tippers. Your
rationalizations for not tipping people who depend on tips for their livelihood are
pathetic. JMO, of course!

My "insight" is that cheap people will justify their cheapness any way they
can, so they don't feel guilty about being cheap.

Brian

···

=====================================

In a message dated 5/14/2008 3:45:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
kungalooosh@gmail.com writes:

Brian described the person who tipped nothing after
winning the most recent Megabucks jackpot as a
"woman with absolutely no class."

Brian continued, "Worse yet, all three Megabucks
winners at the Palms have not tipped. I am completely
at a loss to understand it."

Maybe, after all of the posts in this thread, Brian is no
longer completely "at a loss" to understand it. Maybe,
he has gained some insight that he did not have before?

**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Just makes you feel all warm and fuzzy doesn't it?

···

On 5/14/08, bjaygold@aol.com <bjaygold@aol.com> wrote:

In fact, I have. I now think even less of you non-tippers. Your
rationalizations for not tipping people who depend on tips for
their livelihood are pathetic. JMO, of course!

My "insight" is that cheap people will justify their cheapness any
way they can, so they don't feel guilty about being cheap.

Brian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

I now think even less of you non-tippers. Your
rationalizations for not tipping people who depend on tips for their livelihood are
pathetic. JMO, of course!

My "insight" is that cheap people will justify their cheapness any way they
can, so they don't feel guilty about being cheap.

Brian

If tipping is based on need and generosity, how do tippers decide whom
to tip? There are billions of people who need money far more than
anyone who has a job in the United States. Maybe tippers will go to as
great lengths to masquerade their selfishness as nobility as much as
cheap people will to justify their cheapness.

#4

They don't depend on MY tips for their livelihoods. They depend on the tips
of suckers. Fortunately for them, there's one born every minute.

Cogno

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
bjaygold@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:04 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] LVA Question of the Day - 9 MAY 2008

In fact, I have. I now think even less of you non-tippers. Your
rationalizations for not tipping people who depend on tips for their
livelihood are
pathetic. JMO, of course!

My "insight" is that cheap people will justify their cheapness any way they

can, so they don't feel guilty about being cheap.

Brian

=====================================

In a message dated 5/14/2008 3:45:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
kungalooosh@gmail.com writes:

Brian described the person who tipped nothing after
winning the most recent Megabucks jackpot as a
"woman with absolutely no class."

Brian continued, "Worse yet, all three Megabucks
winners at the Palms have not tipped. I am completely
at a loss to understand it."

Maybe, after all of the posts in this thread, Brian is no
longer completely "at a loss" to understand it. Maybe,
he has gained some insight that he did not have before?

**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#5

Brian wrote:

> I now think even less of you non-tippers. Your
> rationalizations for not tipping people who depend on tips for
> their livelihood are pathetic. JMO, of course!
>
> My "insight" is that cheap people will justify their cheapness any
> way they can, so they don't feel guilty about being cheap.

007 wrote:

If tipping is based on need and generosity, how do tippers decide
whom to tip? There are billions of people who need money far more
than anyone who has a job in the United States. Maybe tippers will go
to as great lengths to masquerade their selfishness as nobility as
much as cheap people will to justify their cheapness.

I'm not sure where you got the "need and generosity" part. It's about
a customary form of compensation. Service people could very well be
entirely compensated through wages ... but they aren't. That's just
the societal norm. It's expected that if you receive satisfactory
service that you'll tip appropriately.

If you've received satisfactory service and fail to tip, you've
embarrassed yourself every bit as much as if you spat in your service
person's face.

(As far as who should be tipped, as with everything else, if you don't
know ask someone more knowledgeable than you.)

- Harry

#6

***sigh*** Time to move this "tipping" topic to freeVPfree??

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

Brian wrote:
> > I now think even less of you non-tippers. Your
> > rationalizations for not tipping people who depend on tips for
> > their livelihood are pathetic. JMO, of course!
> >
> > My "insight" is that cheap people will justify their cheapness any
> > way they can, so they don't feel guilty about being cheap.

007 wrote:
> If tipping is based on need and generosity, how do tippers decide
> whom to tip? There are billions of people who need money far more
> than anyone who has a job in the United States. Maybe tippers will go
> to as great lengths to masquerade their selfishness as nobility as
> much as cheap people will to justify their cheapness.

I'm not sure where you got the "need and generosity" part. It's about
a customary form of compensation. Service people could very well be
entirely compensated through wages ... but they aren't. That's just
the societal norm. It's expected that if you receive satisfactory
service that you'll tip appropriately.

If you've received satisfactory service and fail to tip, you've
embarrassed yourself every bit as much as if you spat in your service
person's face.

(As far as who should be tipped, as with everything else, if you don't
know ask someone more knowledgeable than you.)

- Harry

#7

***sigh*** Time to move this "tipping" topic to freeVPfree??

Why? The administrator never banished any of the other 26,738 posts on
tipping to the land of vpFREE FOR ALL. If there's a subject that brings 'em
out of the woodwork, this is the one. Want proof? Do an archive search on
this word and watch the megabytes buzz.

Nudge

···

From: "xqqqq_me"
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 9 MAY 2008

#8

Brian wrote:

> I now think even less of you non-tippers. Your
> rationalizations for not tipping people who depend on tips for
> their livelihood are pathetic. JMO, of course!
>
> My "insight" is that cheap people will justify their cheapness any
> way they can, so they don't feel guilty about being cheap.

007 wrote:

If tipping is based on need and generosity, how do tippers decide
whom to tip? There are billions of people who need money far more
than anyone who has a job in the United States. Maybe tippers will go
to as great lengths to masquerade their selfishness as nobility as
much as cheap people will to justify their cheapness.

I'm not sure where you got the "need and generosity" part.

That's how I took the comment about being obligated to tip "people who
depend on tips for their livelihood."

It's about
a customary form of compensation. Service people could very well be
entirely compensated through wages ... but they aren't. That's just
the societal norm. It's expected that if you receive satisfactory
service that you'll tip appropriately.

That tipping is obligatory because most people do it is an even more
lame reason than because casino employees need the money is. You're
getting the cart before the horse. The disagreement is about whether
it should be done in the first place.

If you've received satisfactory service and fail to tip, you've
embarrassed yourself every bit as much as if you spat in your service
person's face.

And, since most people believe that video poker machines fall into
predictable patterns, I'd embarrass myself just as much by stubbornly
insisting that each hand is independent of the others. I disagree with
you about the sacredness of democracy.

(As far as who should be tipped, as with everything else, if you don't
know ask someone more knowledgeable than you.)

I "tip" those who need it the most and I struggle to avoid being
dishonest and hypocritical about it by representing a selfish act as
one of generosity, as most tippers do.

···

- Harry

#9

007 wrote:

That tipping is obligatory because most people do it is an even more
lame reason than because casino employees need the money is. You're
getting the cart before the horse. The disagreement is about whether
it should be done in the first place.

Ok, I'm probably not doing the best job in attempting to communicate
this, but we're not talking about something like a gentlemen holding a
door for a lady.

Some service employees are hired with the expectation that a portion
of their compensation will be in the form of tips received from
patrons. Now, as a patron you aren't under any formal obligation to
tip. But when you fail to tip you're making an implicit statement
that you feel their service was inadequate (since were it adequate,
it's anticipated that you'll tip appropriately).

Now, if you want to adopt your own social convention, that's your
business. All I, or anyone else can do, is indicate what message
you're sending.

- H.

#10

This is not a judgment of any of the posters, but, in my experience,
folks that don't want to tip seem to have a compulsion to explain
their reasoning to everyone within earshot. It isn't exclusive, some
excessive tippers seem to have the same urge.

For forty years, I've heard all of the reasons for not tipping from
my wife, "No one tips me for doing my job," "Casinos (companies)
should pay their help more," etc. ad nauseam. After four decades, I
still disagree with her. Like most here, I believe that long-standing
custom has established tipping as part of the American scene. Tipping
isn't going to go away. It is part and parcel of the service and
hospitality industry.

In this case, the reality of human interaction is that people that
tip will tip and people that don't will not. Everyone as their own
motivations for doing what they want to do. The actual service
performed by the receiver of a gratuity is incidental.

It is infrequent for one who is a "good" tipper to not tip when
service is poor. Poor service can make a good tipper into an average
tipper, but our George personality will nor allow us to become
a "bad" tipper.

I think this thread is valuable simply because it encourages us to
decide what we will do when we win before the time when we actually
do. Tokes and tips are a significant adjustment to a well-conceived
bankroll and sufficient to lower your expected value if they are
handled in a capricious manner. For example, it never occurred to me
that I might forget to tip in the excitement should I ever hit a
Royal or not have the cash to tip. Now I know what to expect.

IMO.

#11

What constitutes "satisfactory service" for a hand pay and receiving a W2-G? And, what is a
"correct tip" for that? Is it a strict percentage? Is it a "sliding" percentage based on the value
of the W2-G?

Everyone has their own "rules of thumb". As such, they are personal. We all have to live with
ourselves. If it is comfortable and you feel good with it and you can sleep peacefully at night,
go for it!

(Of course, this is only my two cents worth).

..... bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

If you've received satisfactory service and fail to tip, you've
embarrassed yourself every bit as much as if you spat in your service
person's face.

#12

I could not disagree more with brentevans73's statement:
"The actual service performed by the receiver of a gratuity
is incidental."

As far as I'm concerned, it is absolutely NOT incidental.

···

On 5/15/08, brentevans73 <brentevans73@yahoo.com> wrote:

This is not a judgment of any of the posters, but, in my experience,
folks that don't want to tip seem to have a compulsion to explain
their reasoning to everyone within earshot. It isn't exclusive, some
excessive tippers seem to have the same urge.

For forty years, I've heard all of the reasons for not tipping from
my wife, "No one tips me for doing my job," "Casinos (companies)
should pay their help more," etc. ad nauseam. After four decades, I
still disagree with her. Like most here, I believe that long-standing
custom has established tipping as part of the American scene. Tipping
isn't going to go away. It is part and parcel of the service and
hospitality industry.

In this case, the reality of human interaction is that people that
tip will tip and people that don't will not. Everyone as their own
motivations for doing what they want to do. The actual service
performed by the receiver of a gratuity is incidental.

It is infrequent for one who is a "good" tipper to not tip when
service is poor. Poor service can make a good tipper into an
average tipper, but our George personality will nor allow us to
become a "bad" tipper.

I think this thread is valuable simply because it encourages us to
decide what we will do when we win before the time when we actually
do. Tokes and tips are a significant adjustment to a well-conceived
bankroll and sufficient to lower your expected value if they are
handled in a capricious manner. For example, it never occurred to
me that I might forget to tip in the excitement should I ever hit a
Royal or not have the cash to tip. Now I know what to expect.

IMO.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#13

<<For example, it never occurred to me
that I might forget to tip in the excitement should I ever hit a
Royal >>

And Brad is the other extreme - when he hits something big he is so happy he
tends to want to "overtip." That is why we have set guidelines in advance.
Although when he hit the 100-play dealt royal, although 100K isn't a
"life-changing" amount like Megabucks, it was so exciting we both started
handing out $20's like they were $1's!!!!

···

________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
"Tax Help for Gamblers" now
in e-book form for $9.98.
Download immediately at
http://www.shoplva.com/welcomeEbooks.cfm

#14

Luke Fuller:

I could not disagree more with brentevans73's statement:
"The actual service performed by the receiver of a gratuity
is incidental."

As far as I'm concerned, it is absolutely NOT incidental.

Harry asked me where I got the idea that tipping has anything to do
with need or generosity. The very description of it as a "gratuity"
screams that out loud and clear and is inherent in the masquerade. A
"gratuity" has nothing to do with actual service performed, but
entirely to do with need and generosity. Maybe if it were called a
"server's percent" and, ideally, were fixed by law, or at least
explicit casino policy, entirely eliminating the pretense of
generosity, tippers at least wouldn't have to lie. No self-righteous
tipper has any business criticizing non-tippers for being "cheap" and
then pretending that tipping is not obligatory. Since I believe that
almost all tipping is done out of obligation and not generosity, I
believe that almost all tippers would love to see a law against
tipping passed. They'd care far more about that than whether or not it
included a provision to pay servers a certain percent of each jackpot.

#15

brentevans73:

This is not a judgment of any of the posters, but, in my experience,
folks that don't want to tip seem to have a compulsion to explain
their reasoning to everyone within earshot. It isn't exclusive, some
excessive tippers seem to have the same urge.

And, as in the case with this thread, it's the tippers who start it.
Generally, the non-tipper minds his/her own business, then gets
criticized by a tipper, and the fun is on.

#16

Good point. 007!

It was Brian's post criticizing the Megabuck winner for not tipping
("A woman with absolutely no class") that started it all.

···

On 5/15/08, 007 <007@embarqmail.com> wrote:

>brentevans73:
>This is not a judgment of any of the posters, but, in my experience,
>folks that don't want to tip seem to have a compulsion to explain
>their reasoning to everyone within earshot. It isn't exclusive, some
>excessive tippers seem to have the same urge.

And, as in the case with this thread, it's the tippers who start it.
Generally, the non-tipper minds his/her own business, then gets
criticized by a tipper, and the fun is on.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#17

Why the fighting? As an ex bartender I can say that the big tippers
are much appreciated. They normally make up for the non-tippers (or
small tippers).

But... whether or not you see tipping as important (or over-tipping)
normally depends on whether or not you've had a service job that
depended on tips to make a good living.

What you do in regard to tipping doesn't make you a good or bad person!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Luke Fuller" <kungalooosh@...> wrote:

Good point. 007!

It was Brian's post criticizing the Megabuck winner for not tipping
("A woman with absolutely no class") that started it all.

On 5/15/08, 007 <007@...> wrote:
>
> >brentevans73:
> >This is not a judgment of any of the posters, but, in my experience,
> >folks that don't want to tip seem to have a compulsion to explain
> >their reasoning to everyone within earshot. It isn't exclusive, some
> >excessive tippers seem to have the same urge.
>
> And, as in the case with this thread, it's the tippers who start it.
> Generally, the non-tipper minds his/her own business, then gets
> criticized by a tipper, and the fun is on.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#18

I couldn't disagree more.

First of all, I think your definition of "gratuity" is misplaced. "Gratuity" is defined as "something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service". A gratuity absolutely has something to do with the service provided.

I tip because I want to tip, not because I'm "obligated" to tip, and I certainly don't want tipping banned. I tip because I think it shows appreciation for people that are generally viewed as little more than servants by most people. If someone does an average job in some role that is not traditionally tipped, I may or may not tip. If someone does an excellent job in a role that isn't traditionally tipped, I will tip. The better the job (and the more I am/have been winning) the more I tend to tip. Maybe subconsciously I feel "obligated" to tip due to my upbringing and working through school as a server/bartender, although that type of a discussion seems a little heavy for this topic.

My brother once said it so well when I was debating on the amount of a tip to leave (quoting Arrested Development [admittedly out of context]): Two dollars means a snack for me but it means a big deal to you.

Luke Fuller:>I could not disagree more with brentevans73's statement:>"The actual service performed by the receiver of a gratuity>is incidental.">>As far as I'm concerned, it is absolutely NOT incidental.Harry asked me where I got the idea that tipping has anything to dowith need or generosity. The very description of it as a "gratuity"screams that out loud and clear and is inherent in the masquerade. A"gratuity" has nothing to do with actual service performed, butentirely to do with need and generosity. Maybe if it were called a"server's percent" and, ideally, were fixed by law, or at leastexplicit casino policy, entirely eliminating the pretense ofgenerosity, tippers at least wouldn't have to lie. No self-righteoustipper has any business criticizing non-tippers for being "cheap" andthen pretending that tipping is not obligatory. Since I believe thatalmost all tipping is done out of obligation and not generosity, Ibelieve that almost all tippers would love to see a law againsttipping passed. They'd care far more about that than whether or not itincluded a provision to pay servers a certain percent of each jackpot.

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.comFrom: 007@embarqmail.comDate: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:17:58 -0700Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Tipping; one more time.

_________________________________________________________________
Get Free (PRODUCT) RED™ Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics.
http://joinred.spaces.live.com?ocid=TXT_HMTG_prodredemoticons_052008

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#19

I am tired about this thread, but I must have got infected, I can not resist my two cents worth:-)
   
  Like the smoking threads, let us for the moment try to leave the emotion out of this. I have had a rather cosmopoliton life which may effect my comments, sorry. In many third world countries, small tips are the main source of income for civil servants, such as policemen, clerks at the DMV, mailmen, etc. Has anyone here ever tipped one of these? The answer will be YES if you live in New Jersey, Louisiana or some of the northeastern states. It is illegal to tip federal servants in this country, btw, but you Yankees routinely tip your mailmen. Us Texans do no not, and I doubt if I could get my mailman to accept a tip. I have given Casino Hosts gift cards, often they say they can not accept, to which I reply, "Yes you can." If any of you from Louisiana or New Jersey are offended, let me remind you that there is one ex-governor (and a serious craps player) in federal prison on corruption charges and a vice-president of the USA resigned when his indiscretions while in state
office came to light.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#20

And, as in the case with this thread, it's the tippers who start it.
Generally, the non-tipper minds his/her own business, then gets
criticized by a tipper, and the fun is on.

"TIPPIN' IN THE MORNIN', TIPPIN IN THE EVENIN', TIPPIN' AT SUPPERTIME, I'LL
TIP IF AN WHEN I WANNA, FIVE DOLLARS OR A DIME!"
Come on eeeevvvrybody join in, if you don't know the words, just hum along.

Nudge

···

From: "007" <007@embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Tipping; one more time.