vpFREE2 Forums

LVA Question of the Day - 30 MAR 2009

#1

Q: What is the philosophy with the "Daily Average" you mentioned
in the 3/16 QoD? As an out of towner, when I visit, is it more
advantageous for me to play heavily on two or three days instead
of spreading the same amount of play over four or five days? I
played more on our last visit than my friend, but he´s getting
more offers and I suspect that that is the reason. Thanks!

Read the answer here:

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm</a>

NOTE: vpFREE access to the Question of the Day link has been
approved by LVA and expires after the current day for non-LVA
members.

···

************************************************

This link is posted for informational purposes and doesn't
constitute an endorsement or approval of the linked article's
content by vpFREE. Any discussion of the article must be done
in accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.

************************************************

#2

Unfortunately, I discovered the daily average business because I do like "walk thru" play (as I think she calls it).

But do casinos really have data that shows penalizing walk-thru play brings them more play in the long run? I don't like being forced into a particular pattern of play -- although I do still do long stretches at times.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@...> wrote:

Q: What is the philosophy with the "Daily Average" you mentioned
in the 3/16 QoD? As an out of towner, when I visit, is it more
advantageous for me to play heavily on two or three days instead
of spreading the same amount of play over four or five days? I
played more on our last visit than my friend, but he´s getting
more offers and I suspect that that is the reason. Thanks!

#3

<<But do casinos really have data that shows penalizing walk-thru play brings them more play in the long run? I don't like being forced into a particular pattern of play -- although I do still do long stretches at times. >>

Not sure if any have data on this. Harrah's has data on everything, it seems. But I've never heard of a player who likes this policy!!!!

···

________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/

#4

I've been involved in Business Intelligence in the gaming industry. While my knowledge is far from complete not only have I never seen anything that justifies daily average but I have never heard of any operators asking the question that way.

There are many arguments for doing a daily average, almost all based on long-distance visitor patterns. I have tried to show a number of marketing execs mathematically why it makes no sense for rating locals but in every case their preconception has them locked in.

In fact, I can show that rating long-distance visitors based on daily average is also a bad idea; it is clearly counter-productive to do this for locals.

Jean, you are more willing than I am to assume that many policies are based on analysis rather than "everybody knows" accepted wisdom that permeates the industry.

Bill

···

At 03:39 PM 4/4/2009, you wrote:

<<But do casinos really have data that shows penalizing walk-thru play
brings them more play in the long run? I don't like being forced into a
particular pattern of play -- although I do still do long stretches at
times. >>

Not sure if any have data on this. Harrah's has data on everything, it
seems. But I've never heard of a player who likes this policy!!!!
________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#5

I'm not precisely sure what constitutes locals, vs. long-distance, but I'm about 2 hours drive from my local casino (Mohegan Sun). We don't just pop over any time we feel like it, we usually plan ahead by a week or more, based on what offers are available (mostly entertainment, but some giveaways & free play). We usually stay for a minimum of 2 nights, and based on a conversation (almost like a tooth-pulling exercise) with my host, we've changed our play pattern. Assuming arrival mid-day day1, I'll play my card, as will my bride, strongly on day 1 & day2, then if we play at all on day 3, we'll play on her card so as to not kill my ADT. When I make my desired players club level (Sagamore, which is mid-level) for a six month period, I'll cut back to one day on my card, to build up spendable points on her card. (This cuts down my need to visit Yankee Candle, the farmers Almanac store, and other disreputable places to spend my points)

But the overall effect of the change in my play is to cut down on my play, increase hers, with no net difference whatever. Why they can't just tell players this, or, for example, what the qualification # of points is for the top-level, remains a mystery to me.

···

________________________________
From: Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 7:06:52 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 30 MAR 2009

I've been involved in Business Intelligence in
the gaming industry. While my knowledge is far
from complete not only have I never seen anything
that justifies daily average but I have never
heard of any operators asking the question that way.

There are many arguments for doing a daily
average, almost all based on long-distance
visitor patterns. I have tried to show a number
of marketing execs mathematically why it makes no
sense for rating locals but in every case their
preconception has them locked in.

In fact, I can show that rating long-distance
visitors based on daily average is also a bad
idea; it is clearly counter-productive to do this for locals.

Jean, you are more willing than I am to assume
that many policies are based on analysis rather
than "everybody knows" accepted wisdom that permeates the industry..

Bill

At 03:39 PM 4/4/2009, you wrote:

<<But do casinos really have data that shows penalizing walk-thru play
brings them more play in the long run? I don't like being forced into a
particular pattern of play -- although I do still do long stretches at
times. >>

Not sure if any have data on this. Harrah's has data on everything, it
seems. But I've never heard of a player who likes this policy!!!!
___________ _____
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/

----------- --------- --------- -------

vpFREE Links: http://members. cox.net/vpfree/ Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

<<Jean, you are more willing than I am to assume
that many policies are based on analysis rather
than "everybody knows" accepted wisdom that permeates the industry.>>

Actually I agree with you, Bill, that too much casino policy is based on "that's the way we've always done it" rather than studying if it drives away customers and hurts their bottom line. I just don't know if Harrah's (or any other casino) has studied "daily average."

···

________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/

#7

We received an official notice from Harrahs St Louis that since we had recently visited and had shown no play that our offers for coupons, meals, ect.. would be significantly reduced. Since we had played VP for approximately 4 hours at $2 and even had the machine on hold while we went to eat dinner and then came back and played until we expended all of our bank roll with no significant hit ( BP 8/5), we were amazed at the letter. That is when we made up our mind that being 7* at Harrahs was like being held hostage to a corporate program that had a firm grip tightly on our wallets. They may have done an analysis, but their analysis was dead wrong.

About a week later and having said nothing to them about the mistake, we received a letter from the Vice President of Marketing. In short he said they were apologizing for making a mistake and went on to tell us there was nothing wrong with our card and that all of our points and play had been credited. He included a $35 free play coupon. ( big deal….we had invested a lot ) I guess somewhere they had completed a daily average of our visit. Remember, they found the mistake on their own. It will not be long before our daily average at Harrahs will be very easy to analyze….it will range somewhere from rarely to seldom.

Chuck and Kathy

···

--- On Sat, 4/4/09, Jean Scott <queenofcomps@cox.net> wrote:

From: Jean Scott <queenofcomps@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 30 MAR 2009
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 4, 2009, 7:55 PM

<<Jean, you are more willing than I am to assume
that many policies are based on analysis rather
than "everybody knows" accepted wisdom that permeates the
industry.>>

Actually I agree with you, Bill, that too much casino policy is based on
"that's the way we've always done it" rather than studying if
it drives
away customers and hurts their bottom line. I just don't know if
Harrah's
(or any other casino) has studied "daily average."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

What if you were single? Or your wife didn't play? Or the casino had an enforced rule to cut off benefits to anyone playing on someone else's card?

Why do you have to go through hoops to avoid the penalties imposed on you by irrational rules? Why give them business at all?

These are not meant to be answered, but only to show that bad business policies are counter-productive even if you decide to keep playing there anyway.

···

At 04:39 PM 4/4/2009, you wrote:

I'm not precisely sure what constitutes locals, vs. long-distance, but I'm about 2 hours drive from my local casino (Mohegan Sun). We don't just pop over any time we feel like it, we usually plan ahead by a week or more, based on what offers are available (mostly entertainment, but some giveaways & free play). We usually stay for a minimum of 2 nights, and based on a conversation (almost like a tooth-pulling exercise) with my host, we've changed our play pattern. Assuming arrival mid-day day1, I'll play my card, as will my bride, strongly on day 1 & day2, then if we play at all on day 3, we'll play on her card so as to not kill my ADT. When I make my desired players club level (Sagamore, which is mid-level) for a six month period, I'll cut back to one day on my card, to build up spendable points on her card. (This cuts down my need to visit Yankee Candle, the farmers Almanac store, and other disreputable places to spend my points)

But the overall effect of the change in my play is to cut down on my play, increase hers, with no net difference whatever. Why they can't just tell players this, or, for example, what the qualification # of points is for the top-level, remains a mystery to me.

________________________________
From: Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 7:06:52 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 30 MAR 2009

I've been involved in Business Intelligence in
the gaming industry. While my knowledge is far
from complete not only have I never seen anything
that justifies daily average but I have never
heard of any operators asking the question that way.

There are many arguments for doing a daily
average, almost all based on long-distance
visitor patterns. I have tried to show a number
of marketing execs mathematically why it makes no
sense for rating locals but in every case their
preconception has them locked in.

In fact, I can show that rating long-distance
visitors based on daily average is also a bad
idea; it is clearly counter-productive to do this for locals.

Jean, you are more willing than I am to assume
that many policies are based on analysis rather
than "everybody knows" accepted wisdom that permeates the industry..

Bill

At 03:39 PM 4/4/2009, you wrote:
><<But do casinos really have data that shows penalizing walk-thru play
>brings them more play in the long run? I don't like being forced into a
>particular pattern of play -- although I do still do long stretches at
>times. >>
>
>Not sure if any have data on this. Harrah's has data on everything, it
>seems. But I've never heard of a player who likes this policy!!!!
>___________ _____
>Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
>http://queenofcomps.com/
>You can read my blog at
>http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/
>
>----------- --------- --------- -------
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members. cox.net/vpfree/ Links.htm
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#9

I think very few if any casinos are actually interesting in locals, they just pretend to be because tourists think that so-called "locals casinos" are looser than "tourist trap casinos".

I think the purpose of rating by daily average is to promote the occasional gambler who, when they gamble, gambles consistently big or at least most of the day, and then leaves for a while, months, presumably to rebuild their bankroll from their day job and the kickback offers. It demotes the regular or addicted gambler who spends a lot of time in the casino consuming resources, or who gambles inconsistently, sometimes big, sometimes small, perhaps trying to fool the casino into thinking they are a consistent big player. Years ago, casinos were concerned about being empty, but they've solved that problem, it's called penny games and low roller promotions like dollar pitchers of beer and free karaoke that gets all the cheap party bodies a casino needs. So, enter daily average promotions, to get the big money from the consistent whales. And a place like Harrah's needs big money to pay off their big mortgage.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

In fact, I can show that rating long-distance
visitors based on daily average is also a bad
idea; it is clearly counter-productive to do this for locals.

#10

The "bottom line" is always to be aware of what is going on around you. Then, make your own decision, on your own terms. If you are comfortable with the rules that a casino has established, and you feel that you are satisfied and will be having fun under those circumstances, go for it.

Further, after making others aware of your OPINION, do not criticize them if they happen to not subscribe to that opinion. In spite of all the marketing hype around us, one size does NOT fit all. Look into every situation and play according to how you feel and be not judgmental of others.

My $0.02.

..... bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

What if you were single? Or your wife didn't
play? Or the casino had an enforced rule to cut
off benefits to anyone playing on someone else's card?

Why do you have to go through hoops to avoid the
penalties imposed on you by irrational rules? Why give them business at all?

These are not meant to be answered, but only to
show that bad business policies are
counter-productive even if you decide to keep playing there anyway.

#11

I dunno, I know several players that are ok with Harrah's policy, though the recent cutbacks are another matter. If you can consistently gamble a large amount on each day you play on machines that have a theoretical hold, then Harrah's wants your business and will send you cash to get you to play again, maybe. If you can't do that, you should take your business elsewhere, as long as Harrah's continues to rate players by ADT.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

Not sure if any have data on this. Harrah's has data on everything, it
seems. But I've never heard of a player who likes this policy!!!!

#12

Please don't read things in that are not there. I was not criticizing him, in fact I was saying the same thing you are. I was also pointing out that different people have different circumstances.

···

At 12:51 PM 4/5/2009, you wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:
>
> What if you were single? Or your wife didn't
> play? Or the casino had an enforced rule to cut
> off benefits to anyone playing on someone else's card?
>
> Why do you have to go through hoops to avoid the
> penalties imposed on you by irrational rules? Why give them business at all?
>
> These are not meant to be answered, but only to
> show that bad business policies are
> counter-productive even if you decide to keep playing there anyway.
>

The "bottom line" is always to be aware of what is going on around you. Then, make your own decision, on your own terms. If you are comfortable with the rules that a casino has established, and you feel that you are satisfied and will be having fun under those circumstances, go for it.

Further, after making others aware of your OPINION, do not criticize them if they happen to not subscribe to that opinion. In spite of all the marketing hype around us, one size does NOT fit all. Look into every situation and play according to how you feel and be not judgmental of others.

My $0.02.

..... bl

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#13

Don't even get in to what I'd be doing if I were single!!!!!

But seriously, if the circumstances were different, obviously my play would be as well. For example, I'd take take a room for 3 nights, and just leave late on day 3 if I wanted to play. Or two nights and do the same thing. Then you have the convenience of a room all day, and avoid the late checkout issue.

The point is, you have to take the hand you're dealt, and adapt it to your circumstances the best you can. Its easy for folks in LV to say, "Oh, just patronize a different casino." We don't quite have that luxury in CT. The only other choice is Foxwoods which is far worse than the Sun.

···

________________________________
From: Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 1:44:33 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 30 MAR 2009

What if you were single? Or your wife didn't
play? Or the casino had an enforced rule to cut
off benefits to anyone playing on someone else's card?

Why do you have to go through hoops to avoid the
penalties imposed on you by irrational rules? Why give them business at all?

These are not meant to be answered, but only to
show that bad business policies are
counter-productive even if you decide to keep playing there anyway.

At 04:39 PM 4/4/2009, you wrote:

I'm not precisely sure what constitutes locals,
vs. long-distance, but I'm about 2 hours drive
from my local casino (Mohegan Sun). We don't
just pop over any time we feel like it, we
usually plan ahead by a week or more, based on
what offers are available (mostly entertainment,
but some giveaways & free play). We usually
stay for a minimum of 2 nights, and based on a
conversation (almost like a tooth-pulling
exercise) with my host, we've changed our play
pattern. Assuming arrival mid-day day1, I'll
play my card, as will my bride, strongly on day
1 & day2, then if we play at all on day 3, we'll
play on her card so as to not kill my
ADT. When I make my desired players club level
(Sagamore, which is mid-level) for a six month
period, I'll cut back to one day on my card, to
build up spendable points on her card. (This
cuts down my need to visit Yankee Candle, the
farmers Almanac store, and other disreputable places to spend my points)

But the overall effect of the change in my play
is to cut down on my play, increase hers, with
no net difference whatever. Why they can't just
tell players this, or, for example, what the
qualification # of points is for the top-level, remains a mystery to me..

___________ _________ _________ ___
From: Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox. net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 7:06:52 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 30 MAR 2009

I've been involved in Business Intelligence in
the gaming industry. While my knowledge is far
from complete not only have I never seen anything
that justifies daily average but I have never
heard of any operators asking the question that way.

There are many arguments for doing a daily
average, almost all based on long-distance
visitor patterns. I have tried to show a number
of marketing execs mathematically why it makes no
sense for rating locals but in every case their
preconception has them locked in.

In fact, I can show that rating long-distance
visitors based on daily average is also a bad
idea; it is clearly counter-productive to do this for locals.

Jean, you are more willing than I am to assume
that many policies are based on analysis rather
than "everybody knows" accepted wisdom that permeates the industry..

Bill

At 03:39 PM 4/4/2009, you wrote:
><<But do casinos really have data that shows penalizing walk-thru play
>brings them more play in the long run? I don't like being forced into a
>particular pattern of play -- although I do still do long stretches at
>times. >>
>
>Not sure if any have data on this. Harrah's has data on everything, it
>seems. But I've never heard of a player who likes this policy!!!!
>___________ _____
>Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
>http://queenofcomps.com/
>You can read my blog at
>http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/
>
>
>
>----------- --------- --------- -------
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members. cox.net/vpfree/ Links.htm
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----------- --------- --------- -------

vpFREE Links: http://members. cox.net/vpfree/ Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

H STL sent these letters out to ALL players who EVER cashed a coupon without playing. When they received more blowback then they ever imagined they immediately backed off the pressure and sent out the mea culpa. Had H STL customers not yelled loudly me thinks it would've been business as usual.....

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Chuck & Kathy <kc42223@...> wrote:

We received an official notice from Harrahs St Louis that since we had recently visited and had shown no play that our offers for coupons, meals, ect.. would be significantly reduced. Since we had played VP for approximately 4 hours at $2 and even had the machine on hold while we went to eat dinner and then came back and played until we expended all of our bank roll with no significant hit ( BP 8/5), we were amazed at the letter. That is when we made up our mind that being 7* at Harrahs was like being held hostage to a corporate program that had a firm grip tightly on our wallets. They may have done an analysis, but their analysis was dead wrong.
Â
About a week later and having said nothing to them about the mistake, we received a letter from the Vice President of Marketing. In short he said they were apologizing for making a mistake and went on to tell us there was nothing wrong with our card and that all of our points and play had been credited. He included a $35 free play coupon. ( big deal….we had invested a lot ) I guess somewhere they had completed a daily average of our visit. Remember, they found the mistake on their own. It will not be long before our daily average at Harrahs will be very easy to analyze….it will range somewhere from rarely to seldom.Â
Â
Chuck and Kathy

#15

Bill Coleman wrote:

I've been involved in Business Intelligence in
the gaming industry. While my knowledge is far
from complete not only have I never seen anything
that justifies daily average but I have never
heard of any operators asking the question that way.

There are many arguments for doing a daily
average, almost all based on long-distance
visitor patterns. I have tried to show a number
of marketing execs mathematically why it makes no
sense for rating locals but in every case their
preconception has them locked in.

In fact, I can show that rating long-distance
visitors based on daily average is also a bad
idea; it is clearly counter-productive to do this for locals.

Bill,

For a casino that issues bounceback coupons that generally can be redeemed back-to-back, one day to the next, what rating method do you recommend to best ensure that, over time, a patron's coupon redemptions are relatively consistent with total play?

In other words, what rating system best ensures that coupon redemption stays within a desired % of theo?

One example to address is the day visitor vs. the overnight visitor who each record the same theo for their visit. (Or, a 1-night visitor vs 2-night ... again, each with identical trip theo.)

A similar consideration comes into play with promotions/gifts.

I'm not saying ADT is the holy grail ... just feeling out what it is that you recommend in lieu of ADT.

- H.

#16

Hi Harry,

I can't really explain the whole paradigm in a few sentences but I can give you the essentials.

For locals (live within 1 hour drive of the casino):
First, the casino should accurately measure your cumulative theo over a period (1, 2 or 3 months are most common) (real accuracy not possible with most tracking systems). Offers should return a percentage of the casino's theoretical win (net of same-day cashback, if any), including bounce-back or free-play.

This becomes self-correcting. Since bounce-back cash or free play is based on prior-period play the customer is not "abusing" the coupons if he takes the bounce-back and doesn't play. His future mailers will disappear. It is the responsibility of marketing, not customer loyalty, to discover why the play has stopped and recruit the customer back. At the same time, by continuing to play loyalty is built up and reciprocated. I also recommend that increase in bounce-back be linear with no upper limit to prevent discouraging play.

For visitors it becomes more complicated. In a very general sense I would look at both total play and hourly average to rate these customers.

There are a lot of complexities and uncommon situations that would impact these policies but this is the general outline. The worst thing that can be done is discourage people from coming in and playing for 10 minutes if they want to. (not including advantage plays, of course but those can be factored into the analytics).

B

···

At 02:15 AM 4/6/2009, you wrote:

Bill,

For a casino that issues bounceback coupons that generally can be redeemed back-to-back, one day to the next, what rating method do you recommend to best ensure that, over time, a patron's coupon redemptions are relatively consistent with total play?

In other words, what rating system best ensures that coupon redemption stays within a desired % of theo?

One example to address is the day visitor vs. the overnight visitor who each record the same theo for their visit. (Or, a 1-night visitor vs 2-night ... again, each with identical trip theo.)

A similar consideration comes into play with promotions/gifts.

I'm not saying ADT is the holy grail ... just feeling out what it is that you recommend in lieu of ADT.

- H.

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#17

I agree, average hourly theoretical is the most important and tells you how serious the gambler is. But you need to check total play to avoid abuse, basically just set some total play guidelines and have ways to let players know nicely if they are outside the guidelines, encourage extra play rather than penalize for insufficient play, the former gains a better customer, the later probably loses many potentially valuable customers. Average hourly theoretical tells you the potential value of the customer, it's a common way to rate table players, it's up to marketing and casino personel to encourage (not force) the player to accumulate total play.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

For visitors it becomes more complicated. In a very general sense I
would look at both total play and hourly average to rate these customers.

#18

There are a lot of complexities and uncommon situations that would
impact these policies but this is the general outline. The worst
thing that can be done is discourage people from coming in and
playing for 10 minutes if they want to......

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

....For visitors it becomes more complicated. In a very general sense I would look at both total play and hourly average to rate these customers.

========================================================
If only the Marketing Suits made offers based on your suggestions, Bill.

As a non-Nevada local, I dislike playing at casinos who "force me"
to either abstain from playing, or to play w/o my player's card,
on my day of arrival/departure. Because I do not have enough
playing hours to constitute a normal day's play, this would havoc
with my ADT.

Usually, I run through enough coin-in for entire trip, and my host will tell me that it won't impact much on my theo, and to just go ahead and play short daily hours. So far, my offers have held steady doing this at every casino except for one.

But I still feel that non-local players should be held to a different
standard in regard to the number of hours played on travel days.

~Babe~

#19

Very well put! There are those occasional days when you just can't pull a pair, or you might not be feeling well, when you just say "Today is not my day" and you pack it in after an hour or two. But on anything other than a day trip, you'll undoubtedly make it up the next day or two, or the next trip or two. They really should be looking at how you play (avg. hourly) and what kind of player you are (total play, per year, or other qualifying period).

And as my sainted mother-in-law always said, "You can catch more flies with honey, than by pissing them off"

···

________________________________
From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 3:07:07 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 30 MAR 2009

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@.. .> wrote:

For visitors it becomes more complicated. In a very general sense I
would look at both total play and hourly average to rate these customers.

I agree, average hourly theoretical is the most important and tells you how serious the gambler is. But you need to check total play to avoid abuse, basically just set some total play guidelines and have ways to let players know nicely if they are outside the guidelines, encourage extra play rather than penalize for insufficient play, the former gains a better customer, the later probably loses many potentially valuable customers. Average hourly theoretical tells you the potential value of the customer, it's a common way to rate table players, it's up to marketing and casino personel to encourage (not force) the player to accumulate total play.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]