Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
LVA Question of the Day - 24 Dec
Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
···
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob972@...> wrote:
*********************
I hear this argument often. The role of downgrading VP pay tables in making a casino attractive is unclear. We would have to have some hard numbers to see if it makes a difference.
I think those folks who are adding those kinds of numbers do on think it does.
when gambling spread to local places, and respread, I thought that the competition would cause the VP to be player friendly, that my local Indian casino would certainly make nice pay tables to encourage me to play there.
Instead it seemed that Nevada learned from the locals that for the majority of gamblers, the mathematics does not matter one bit. They play because they are driven to play, wired to take risks.
This year we see the renovation of the PLaza. So everyone gets all excited and pays a great deal for the first rooms opened and loves the glitz and glamour. No one cares that full pay VP is gone. They care that this celebrity mayor has his name on a fancy steak.
The Gold Spike opens as a boutique casino, and this poorly located place with the reputation of attracting people with few teeth and poor diction to play pennies, changes its image. But there is no pull pay VP tables.
And slowly they have been disappearing everywhere.
The same with Blackjack.
The Sahara tried a section of full pay tables. Folks did not rush there. See where it is now.
The Riviera is now trying. They have a $10 single zero roulette wheel, one of two in Las Vegas that is not high roller. Do you see any one jumping up and down. On roulette threads I talk about this wheel. No one cares. They care about their mathematically absurd systems to win, about how they can get control of the luck with some pattern of magic. I went and lost $100 last trip and the other double zero wheel was full while this one was half full, just as it was years ago at the Stratosphere when they had one, at the same time they had those wierd pay tables like 9/7 JOB.
On a board like this the audience controls what seems like common sense. It is like going to a tent revival meeting and talking to your neighbor about how back in the neighborhood no on seems to care about Jesus anymore.
Unfortunately, Laughlin does not have the choice of really going upscale like the Plaza is trying to do, because the upper crust doesn't want to go there.
One possible help may be when the "job creators" invest in the solar factory near Avi and create a bunch of jobs, draw a bunch of people. Will those folks gamble? Maybe. Is it reasonable to think that smart people making new technology will also look for high paytables. Well, I have to tell you that I have two friends who teach mathematics. Both of them bet the yo on the craps table and yell to get lucky. I'll wait and see.
They still don't have the money to dress the place up, but they might when the Chinese are done doing the big math and running the economy in Laughlin.
Unfortunately, so far it looks like many of the jobs will be going to retrained locals, the same ones who probably don't gamble. If with all the Chinese money, they brought over a bunch of Chinese folks who had not seen and avoided casinos in Laughlin, it might be a better bet. And that may still happen, once the initial hoopla is over.
I think that the casinos decided that they did not need to compete with one another as much as they needed to squeeze out a few more dollars from current players, to attract the players who will more quickly pump their bankroll into a machine.
As long as rooms in Vegas are just as cheap as rooms in Laughlin, they can't compete.
why would they want educated VP players who might actually squeeze out a profit anyway? Did the Orleans want them when they took out their signature 10/7 and replaces it with 9/6 DB? Those machines are still there. And they get played in spite of the fact that 9/6 DDB is right in the same row. How much math do you need to know compare those pay tables? But they get played.
And the El Cortez is on an upswing. Dancer came and taught VP there and insisted they have full pay. So they did. They put in some 9/6 JOB and then when the classes were over, they took they out.
I am curious as to what the Aquarius will manage. There are still good pay tables there and they have not been willing to draw in the $7.77 a night tourist. We'll see if that works.
If not, well we can pray that the Chinese will balance Laughlin's budgets. Why not, they do it in one way or another for just about all of America, even the I stand up proud for my country self congratulatory patriotic claptrap. The same folks who can't do the math on the VP paytables can't do it when they elect representatives either. Just like Vegas attracts them when sex is the issue, polititians are generally elected or not on their sex life not on their mathematical ideas.
Not sure if metro Laughlin could turn into a mecca for the solar industry. Needs a factory not just a solar power plant. A factory would provide many more jobs including managment jobs.
Have to move to the u.s.a. from china to run the new factory for x number of years. Where do you bring your one (maybe two) kid(s).
Las Vegas? I think that may meet with some resistance from family.
But a 90 minute drive from Vegas can be the best of both worlds.
Service between Bullhead and LA airports could kick it off.
But all in all, you sure seem to have fingered Laughlin scene.
···
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob972@> wrote:
>
> Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
>
*********************I hear this argument often. The role of downgrading VP pay tables in making a casino attractive is unclear. We would have to have some hard numbers to see if it makes a difference.
I think those folks who are adding those kinds of numbers do on think it does.
when gambling spread to local places, and respread, I thought that the competition would cause the VP to be player friendly, that my local Indian casino would certainly make nice pay tables to encourage me to play there.
Instead it seemed that Nevada learned from the locals that for the majority of gamblers, the mathematics does not matter one bit. They play because they are driven to play, wired to take risks.
This year we see the renovation of the PLaza. So everyone gets all excited and pays a great deal for the first rooms opened and loves the glitz and glamour. No one cares that full pay VP is gone. They care that this celebrity mayor has his name on a fancy steak.
The Gold Spike opens as a boutique casino, and this poorly located place with the reputation of attracting people with few teeth and poor diction to play pennies, changes its image. But there is no pull pay VP tables.
And slowly they have been disappearing everywhere.
The same with Blackjack.
The Sahara tried a section of full pay tables. Folks did not rush there. See where it is now.
The Riviera is now trying. They have a $10 single zero roulette wheel, one of two in Las Vegas that is not high roller. Do you see any one jumping up and down. On roulette threads I talk about this wheel. No one cares. They care about their mathematically absurd systems to win, about how they can get control of the luck with some pattern of magic. I went and lost $100 last trip and the other double zero wheel was full while this one was half full, just as it was years ago at the Stratosphere when they had one, at the same time they had those wierd pay tables like 9/7 JOB.
On a board like this the audience controls what seems like common sense. It is like going to a tent revival meeting and talking to your neighbor about how back in the neighborhood no on seems to care about Jesus anymore.
Unfortunately, Laughlin does not have the choice of really going upscale like the Plaza is trying to do, because the upper crust doesn't want to go there.
One possible help may be when the "job creators" invest in the solar factory near Avi and create a bunch of jobs, draw a bunch of people. Will those folks gamble? Maybe. Is it reasonable to think that smart people making new technology will also look for high paytables. Well, I have to tell you that I have two friends who teach mathematics. Both of them bet the yo on the craps table and yell to get lucky. I'll wait and see.
They still don't have the money to dress the place up, but they might when the Chinese are done doing the big math and running the economy in Laughlin.
Unfortunately, so far it looks like many of the jobs will be going to retrained locals, the same ones who probably don't gamble. If with all the Chinese money, they brought over a bunch of Chinese folks who had not seen and avoided casinos in Laughlin, it might be a better bet. And that may still happen, once the initial hoopla is over.
I think that the casinos decided that they did not need to compete with one another as much as they needed to squeeze out a few more dollars from current players, to attract the players who will more quickly pump their bankroll into a machine.
As long as rooms in Vegas are just as cheap as rooms in Laughlin, they can't compete.
why would they want educated VP players who might actually squeeze out a profit anyway? Did the Orleans want them when they took out their signature 10/7 and replaces it with 9/6 DB? Those machines are still there. And they get played in spite of the fact that 9/6 DDB is right in the same row. How much math do you need to know compare those pay tables? But they get played.
And the El Cortez is on an upswing. Dancer came and taught VP there and insisted they have full pay. So they did. They put in some 9/6 JOB and then when the classes were over, they took they out.I am curious as to what the Aquarius will manage. There are still good pay tables there and they have not been willing to draw in the $7.77 a night tourist. We'll see if that works.
If not, well we can pray that the Chinese will balance Laughlin's budgets. Why not, they do it in one way or another for just about all of America, even the I stand up proud for my country self congratulatory patriotic claptrap. The same folks who can't do the math on the VP paytables can't do it when they elect representatives either. Just like Vegas attracts them when sex is the issue, polititians are generally elected or not on their sex life not on their mathematical ideas.
I guess you missed the news details.
note 9,000 acres used as solar farm, factory, research park.
Total cost will be 4-6 billion and they will produce 5.4 billion solar panels yearly, some of them tested right there.
The company estimates 2900 construction jobs and then 2200 permanent jobs at about 70 grand each with preference to locals if they can learn to do the highly technical work. 12.5% unemployment in the area means plenty of folks to choose from. Maybe some unemployed somebody studied some math/science in school.
Total cost is estimated at 4-6 billion dollars.
Of course, over time these solar panels, tested right there on buildings, refined, improved, evolving will generate a better solar project. The patents will then be Chinese owned. The future is in green energy here and in the world. But I guess American investors are short sighted, married to fossil fuels and government is in their lobby hands as well. So fifty years from now China will reap the benefits that vision allows.
But right away it could mean a uplift for Laughlin, perhaps Avi especially as they are close.
···
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:
Not sure if metro Laughlin could turn into a mecca for the solar industry. Needs a factory not just a solar power plant. A factory would provide many more jobs including managment jobs.
Have to move to the u.s.a. from china to run the new factory for x number of years. Where do you bring your one (maybe two) kid(s).
Las Vegas? I think that may meet with some resistance from family.
But a 90 minute drive from Vegas can be the best of both worlds.Service between Bullhead and LA airports could kick it off.
But all in all, you sure seem to have fingered Laughlin scene.
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob972@> wrote:
> >
> > Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
> >
> *********************
>
> I hear this argument often. The role of downgrading VP pay tables in making a casino attractive is unclear. We would have to have some hard numbers to see if it makes a difference.
> I think those folks who are adding those kinds of numbers do on think it does.
> when gambling spread to local places, and respread, I thought that the competition would cause the VP to be player friendly, that my local Indian casino would certainly make nice pay tables to encourage me to play there.
> Instead it seemed that Nevada learned from the locals that for the majority of gamblers, the mathematics does not matter one bit. They play because they are driven to play, wired to take risks.
> This year we see the renovation of the PLaza. So everyone gets all excited and pays a great deal for the first rooms opened and loves the glitz and glamour. No one cares that full pay VP is gone. They care that this celebrity mayor has his name on a fancy steak.
> The Gold Spike opens as a boutique casino, and this poorly located place with the reputation of attracting people with few teeth and poor diction to play pennies, changes its image. But there is no pull pay VP tables.
> And slowly they have been disappearing everywhere.
> The same with Blackjack.
> The Sahara tried a section of full pay tables. Folks did not rush there. See where it is now.
> The Riviera is now trying. They have a $10 single zero roulette wheel, one of two in Las Vegas that is not high roller. Do you see any one jumping up and down. On roulette threads I talk about this wheel. No one cares. They care about their mathematically absurd systems to win, about how they can get control of the luck with some pattern of magic. I went and lost $100 last trip and the other double zero wheel was full while this one was half full, just as it was years ago at the Stratosphere when they had one, at the same time they had those wierd pay tables like 9/7 JOB.
> On a board like this the audience controls what seems like common sense. It is like going to a tent revival meeting and talking to your neighbor about how back in the neighborhood no on seems to care about Jesus anymore.
> Unfortunately, Laughlin does not have the choice of really going upscale like the Plaza is trying to do, because the upper crust doesn't want to go there.
> One possible help may be when the "job creators" invest in the solar factory near Avi and create a bunch of jobs, draw a bunch of people. Will those folks gamble? Maybe. Is it reasonable to think that smart people making new technology will also look for high paytables. Well, I have to tell you that I have two friends who teach mathematics. Both of them bet the yo on the craps table and yell to get lucky. I'll wait and see.
> They still don't have the money to dress the place up, but they might when the Chinese are done doing the big math and running the economy in Laughlin.
> Unfortunately, so far it looks like many of the jobs will be going to retrained locals, the same ones who probably don't gamble. If with all the Chinese money, they brought over a bunch of Chinese folks who had not seen and avoided casinos in Laughlin, it might be a better bet. And that may still happen, once the initial hoopla is over.
> I think that the casinos decided that they did not need to compete with one another as much as they needed to squeeze out a few more dollars from current players, to attract the players who will more quickly pump their bankroll into a machine.
> As long as rooms in Vegas are just as cheap as rooms in Laughlin, they can't compete.
> why would they want educated VP players who might actually squeeze out a profit anyway? Did the Orleans want them when they took out their signature 10/7 and replaces it with 9/6 DB? Those machines are still there. And they get played in spite of the fact that 9/6 DDB is right in the same row. How much math do you need to know compare those pay tables? But they get played.
> And the El Cortez is on an upswing. Dancer came and taught VP there and insisted they have full pay. So they did. They put in some 9/6 JOB and then when the classes were over, they took they out.
>
> I am curious as to what the Aquarius will manage. There are still good pay tables there and they have not been willing to draw in the $7.77 a night tourist. We'll see if that works.
> If not, well we can pray that the Chinese will balance Laughlin's budgets. Why not, they do it in one way or another for just about all of America, even the I stand up proud for my country self congratulatory patriotic claptrap. The same folks who can't do the math on the VP paytables can't do it when they elect representatives either. Just like Vegas attracts them when sex is the issue, polititians are generally elected or not on their sex life not on their mathematical ideas.
>
I'll believe this Laughlin billion-dollar, solar, liberal pipe-dream when I see it.
Green energy may be the future but it's not anywhere near efficient enough yet to displace fossil fuels. American venture capitalists know this, and they are far from being short-sighted.
I'd rather have the Chinese dump billions into this boondoggle, than see our government spend tax dollars on this. Because when the federal govt. tries to force it, we get Solyndra.
···
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@...> wrote:
I guess you missed the news details.
note 9,000 acres used as solar farm, factory, research park.
Total cost will be 4-6 billion and they will produce 5.4 billion solar panels yearly, some of them tested right there.The company estimates 2900 construction jobs and then 2200 permanent jobs at about 70 grand each with preference to locals if they can learn to do the highly technical work. 12.5% unemployment in the area means plenty of folks to choose from. Maybe some unemployed somebody studied some math/science in school.
Total cost is estimated at 4-6 billion dollars.
Of course, over time these solar panels, tested right there on buildings, refined, improved, evolving will generate a better solar project. The patents will then be Chinese owned. The future is in green energy here and in the world. But I guess American investors are short sighted, married to fossil fuels and government is in their lobby hands as well. So fifty years from now China will reap the benefits that vision allows.
But right away it could mean a uplift for Laughlin, perhaps Avi especially as they are close.--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> Not sure if metro Laughlin could turn into a mecca for the solar industry. Needs a factory not just a solar power plant. A factory would provide many more jobs including managment jobs.
>
> Have to move to the u.s.a. from china to run the new factory for x number of years. Where do you bring your one (maybe two) kid(s).
> Las Vegas? I think that may meet with some resistance from family.
> But a 90 minute drive from Vegas can be the best of both worlds.
>
> Service between Bullhead and LA airports could kick it off.
>
> But all in all, you sure seem to have fingered Laughlin scene.
>
> --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob972@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
> > >
> > *********************
> >
> > I hear this argument often. The role of downgrading VP pay tables in making a casino attractive is unclear. We would have to have some hard numbers to see if it makes a difference.
> > I think those folks who are adding those kinds of numbers do on think it does.
> > when gambling spread to local places, and respread, I thought that the competition would cause the VP to be player friendly, that my local Indian casino would certainly make nice pay tables to encourage me to play there.
> > Instead it seemed that Nevada learned from the locals that for the majority of gamblers, the mathematics does not matter one bit. They play because they are driven to play, wired to take risks.
> > This year we see the renovation of the PLaza. So everyone gets all excited and pays a great deal for the first rooms opened and loves the glitz and glamour. No one cares that full pay VP is gone. They care that this celebrity mayor has his name on a fancy steak.
> > The Gold Spike opens as a boutique casino, and this poorly located place with the reputation of attracting people with few teeth and poor diction to play pennies, changes its image. But there is no pull pay VP tables.
> > And slowly they have been disappearing everywhere.
> > The same with Blackjack.
> > The Sahara tried a section of full pay tables. Folks did not rush there. See where it is now.
> > The Riviera is now trying. They have a $10 single zero roulette wheel, one of two in Las Vegas that is not high roller. Do you see any one jumping up and down. On roulette threads I talk about this wheel. No one cares. They care about their mathematically absurd systems to win, about how they can get control of the luck with some pattern of magic. I went and lost $100 last trip and the other double zero wheel was full while this one was half full, just as it was years ago at the Stratosphere when they had one, at the same time they had those wierd pay tables like 9/7 JOB.
> > On a board like this the audience controls what seems like common sense. It is like going to a tent revival meeting and talking to your neighbor about how back in the neighborhood no on seems to care about Jesus anymore.
> > Unfortunately, Laughlin does not have the choice of really going upscale like the Plaza is trying to do, because the upper crust doesn't want to go there.
> > One possible help may be when the "job creators" invest in the solar factory near Avi and create a bunch of jobs, draw a bunch of people. Will those folks gamble? Maybe. Is it reasonable to think that smart people making new technology will also look for high paytables. Well, I have to tell you that I have two friends who teach mathematics. Both of them bet the yo on the craps table and yell to get lucky. I'll wait and see.
> > They still don't have the money to dress the place up, but they might when the Chinese are done doing the big math and running the economy in Laughlin.
> > Unfortunately, so far it looks like many of the jobs will be going to retrained locals, the same ones who probably don't gamble. If with all the Chinese money, they brought over a bunch of Chinese folks who had not seen and avoided casinos in Laughlin, it might be a better bet. And that may still happen, once the initial hoopla is over.
> > I think that the casinos decided that they did not need to compete with one another as much as they needed to squeeze out a few more dollars from current players, to attract the players who will more quickly pump their bankroll into a machine.
> > As long as rooms in Vegas are just as cheap as rooms in Laughlin, they can't compete.
> > why would they want educated VP players who might actually squeeze out a profit anyway? Did the Orleans want them when they took out their signature 10/7 and replaces it with 9/6 DB? Those machines are still there. And they get played in spite of the fact that 9/6 DDB is right in the same row. How much math do you need to know compare those pay tables? But they get played.
> > And the El Cortez is on an upswing. Dancer came and taught VP there and insisted they have full pay. So they did. They put in some 9/6 JOB and then when the classes were over, they took they out.
> >
> > I am curious as to what the Aquarius will manage. There are still good pay tables there and they have not been willing to draw in the $7.77 a night tourist. We'll see if that works.
> > If not, well we can pray that the Chinese will balance Laughlin's budgets. Why not, they do it in one way or another for just about all of America, even the I stand up proud for my country self congratulatory patriotic claptrap. The same folks who can't do the math on the VP paytables can't do it when they elect representatives either. Just like Vegas attracts them when sex is the issue, polititians are generally elected or not on their sex life not on their mathematical ideas.
> >
>
Exactly. We are now the Saudi Arabia of natural gas, a very low polluter in comparison to oil and coal. If you want to really know the viability of solar, check there stock prices (a disaster).
···
________________________________
From: lazy <mikel0601@charter.net>
To: vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Laughlin] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 24 Dec
I'll believe this Laughlin billion-dollar, solar, liberal pipe-dream when I see it.
Green energy may be the future but it's not anywhere near efficient enough yet to displace fossil fuels. American venture capitalists know this, and they are far from being short-sighted.
I'd rather have the Chinese dump billions into this boondoggle, than see our government spend tax dollars on this. Because when the federal govt. tries to force it, we get Solyndra.
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@...> wrote:
I guess you missed the news details.
note 9,000 acres used as solar farm, factory, research park.
Total cost will be 4-6 billion and they will produce 5.4 billion solar panels yearly, some of them tested right there.The company estimates 2900 construction jobs and then 2200 permanent jobs at about 70 grand each with preference to locals if they can learn to do the highly technical work. 12.5% unemployment in the area means plenty of folks to choose from. Maybe some unemployed somebody studied some math/science in school.
Total cost is estimated at 4-6 billion dollars.
Of course, over time these solar panels, tested right there on buildings, refined, improved, evolving will generate a better solar project. The patents will then be Chinese owned. The future is in green energy here and in the world. But I guess American investors are short sighted, married to fossil fuels and government is in their lobby hands as well. So fifty years from now China will reap the benefits that vision allows.
But right away it could mean a uplift for Laughlin, perhaps Avi especially as they are close.--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> Not sure if metro Laughlin could turn into a mecca for the solar industry. Needs a factory not just a solar power plant. A factory would provide many more jobs including managment jobs.
>
> Have to move to the u.s.a. from china to run the new factory for x number of years. Where do you bring your one (maybe two) kid(s).
> Las Vegas? I think that may meet with some resistance from family.
> But a 90 minute drive from Vegas can be the best of both worlds.
>
> Service between Bullhead and LA airports could kick it off.
>
> But all in all, you sure seem to have fingered Laughlin scene.
>
> --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob972@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
> > >
> > *********************
> >
> > I hear this argument often. The role of downgrading VP pay tables in making a casino attractive is unclear. We would have to have some hard numbers to see if it makes a difference.
> > I think those folks who are adding those kinds of numbers do on think it does.
> > when gambling spread to local places, and respread, I thought that the competition would cause the VP to be player friendly, that my local Indian casino would certainly make nice pay tables to encourage me to play there.
> > Instead it seemed that Nevada learned from the locals that for the majority of gamblers, the mathematics does not matter one bit. They play because they are driven to play, wired to take risks.
> > This year we see the renovation of the PLaza. So everyone gets all excited and pays a great deal for the first rooms opened and loves the glitz and glamour. No one cares that full pay VP is gone. They care that this celebrity mayor has his name on a fancy steak.
> > The Gold Spike opens as a boutique casino, and this poorly located place with the reputation of attracting people with few teeth and poor diction to play pennies, changes its image. But there is no pull pay VP tables.
> > And slowly they have been disappearing everywhere.
> > The same with Blackjack.
> > The Sahara tried a section of full pay tables. Folks did not rush there. See where it is now.
> > The Riviera is now trying. They have a $10 single zero roulette wheel, one of two in Las Vegas that is not high roller. Do you see any one jumping up and down. On roulette threads I talk about this wheel. No one cares. They care about their mathematically absurd systems to win, about how they can get control of the luck with some pattern of magic. I went and lost $100 last trip and the other double zero wheel was full while this one was half full, just as it was years ago at the Stratosphere when they had one, at the same time they had those wierd pay tables like 9/7 JOB.
> > On a board like this the audience controls what seems like common sense. It is like going to a tent revival meeting and talking to your neighbor about how back in the neighborhood no on seems to care about Jesus anymore.
> > Unfortunately, Laughlin does not have the choice of really going upscale like the Plaza is trying to do, because the upper crust doesn't want to go there.
> > One possible help may be when the "job creators" invest in the solar factory near Avi and create a bunch of jobs, draw a bunch of people. Will those folks gamble? Maybe. Is it reasonable to think that smart people making new technology will also look for high paytables. Well, I have to tell you that I have two friends who teach mathematics. Both of them bet the yo on the craps table and yell to get lucky. I'll wait and see.
> > They still don't have the money to dress the place up, but they might when the Chinese are done doing the big math and running the economy in Laughlin.
> > Unfortunately, so far it looks like many of the jobs will be going to retrained locals, the same ones who probably don't gamble. If with all the Chinese money, they brought over a bunch of Chinese folks who had not seen and avoided casinos in Laughlin, it might be a better bet. And that may still happen, once the initial hoopla is over.
> > I think that the casinos decided that they did not need to compete with one another as much as they needed to squeeze out a few more dollars from current players, to attract the players who will more quickly pump their bankroll into a machine.
> > As long as rooms in Vegas are just as cheap as rooms in Laughlin, they can't compete.
> > why would they want educated VP players who might actually squeeze out a profit anyway? Did the Orleans want them when they took out their signature 10/7 and replaces it with 9/6 DB? Those machines are still there. And they get played in spite of the fact that 9/6 DDB is right in the same row. How much math do you need to know compare those pay tables? But they get played.
> > And the El Cortez is on an upswing. Dancer came and taught VP there and insisted they have full pay. So they did. They put in some 9/6 JOB and then when the classes were over, they took they out.
> >
> > I am curious as to what the Aquarius will manage. There are still good pay tables there and they have not been willing to draw in the $7.77 a night tourist. We'll see if that works.
> > If not, well we can pray that the Chinese will balance Laughlin's budgets. Why not, they do it in one way or another for just about all of America, even the I stand up proud for my country self congratulatory patriotic claptrap. The same folks who can't do the math on the VP paytables can't do it when they elect representatives either. Just like Vegas attracts them when sex is the issue, polititians are generally elected or not on their sex life not on their mathematical ideas.
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well, no one can predict the long term future.
I won't be around to see it.
Water is probably another resource soon coming into its own and not to be taken for granted.
Hydrofracting for all that gas may help make fresh, unpolluted water an even more rare commodity.
And the statement that natural gas is overall cleaner than the others is not yet determined, not only for water but for the pollution that might happen if the extractors are more greedy than careful. It is debated, not a done decision.
Green either becomes interesting to the rich investor "job creators," or we can pay China to become the innovators and get the patents so we pay them everytime we go green here, or we can pay the costs of all the environmental disasters that fossil fuels have begun to create that will escalate here and around the world as much as we try to hide out heads in the sand.
My bet is that green technology is just beginning, and it matters who controls the new discoveries and innovations to all the alternative and clean fuels.
In the short run, however, it is hoped that the Chinese may boost Laughlin's economy by creating jobs there and most of them will be local jobs and some of that will spill over to the casinos or even better, to the live poker tables, where the rake is still a good deal and equivalent to good VP tables. Once the deal is made, the Chinese "Job creators" will certainly manage to help the Laughlin depressed economy more that full VP tables.
And that I will be around to see, God willing and the creek don't rise.
As for the idea that the government should not get involved in encouraging new technologies. Well, I might agree if they weren't already involved in corporate welfare at all levels to keep alive the traditional rich, those that give a huge disingenuous shout about the the need for laissez faire government and then become "too big to fail," when they run into hard times.
And there are those that arrange unnecessary wars to make them even richer.
Government might just as well have some vision as be tied to established money interests and established wealth.
So, it isn't about whether government should get involved anymore. It is about how they might get involved, so we just aren't constantly being ripped off by that military industrial complex that Ike predicted. and we are trying to have some vision and move into the new century.
If you really want to know the viability of solar, check THEIR stock prices in 2061.
···
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@...> wrote:
Exactly. We are now the Saudi Arabia of natural gas, a very low polluter in comparison to oil and coal. If you want to really know the viability of solar, check there stock prices (a disaster).
________________________________
From: lazy <mikel0601@...>
To: vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Laughlin] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 24 DecÂ
I'll believe this Laughlin billion-dollar, solar, liberal pipe-dream when I see it.
Green energy may be the future but it's not anywhere near efficient enough yet to displace fossil fuels. American venture capitalists know this, and they are far from being short-sighted.
I'd rather have the Chinese dump billions into this boondoggle, than see our government spend tax dollars on this. Because when the federal govt. tries to force it, we get Solyndra.--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
>
> I guess you missed the news details.
>
> http://www.lvrj.com/business/plans-to-move-forward-on-laughlin-solar-plant-get-approval-135951198.html
>
> note 9,000 acres used as solar farm, factory, research park.
> Total cost will be 4-6 billion and they will produce 5.4 billion solar panels yearly, some of them tested right there.
>
> The company estimates 2900 construction jobs and then 2200 permanent jobs at about 70 grand each with preference to locals if they can learn to do the highly technical work. 12.5% unemployment in the area means plenty of folks to choose from. Maybe some unemployed somebody studied some math/science in school.
>
> Total cost is estimated at 4-6 billion dollars.
>
> Of course, over time these solar panels, tested right there on buildings, refined, improved, evolving will generate a better solar project. The patents will then be Chinese owned. The future is in green energy here and in the world. But I guess American investors are short sighted, married to fossil fuels and government is in their lobby hands as well. So fifty years from now China will reap the benefits that vision allows.
> But right away it could mean a uplift for Laughlin, perhaps Avi especially as they are close.
>
> --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> >
> > Not sure if metro Laughlin could turn into a mecca for the solar industry. Needs a factory not just a solar power plant. A factory would provide many more jobs including managment jobs.
> >
> > Have to move to the u.s.a. from china to run the new factory for x number of years. Where do you bring your one (maybe two) kid(s).
> > Las Vegas? I think that may meet with some resistance from family.
> > But a 90 minute drive from Vegas can be the best of both worlds.
> >
> > Service between Bullhead and LA airports could kick it off.
> >
> > But all in all, you sure seem to have fingered Laughlin scene.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob972@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
> > > >
> > > *********************
> > >
> > > I hear this argument often. The role of downgrading VP pay tables in making a casino attractive is unclear. We would have to have some hard numbers to see if it makes a difference.
> > > I think those folks who are adding those kinds of numbers do on think it does.
> > > when gambling spread to local places, and respread, I thought that the competition would cause the VP to be player friendly, that my local Indian casino would certainly make nice pay tables to encourage me to play there.
> > > Instead it seemed that Nevada learned from the locals that for the majority of gamblers, the mathematics does not matter one bit. They play because they are driven to play, wired to take risks.
> > > This year we see the renovation of the PLaza. So everyone gets all excited and pays a great deal for the first rooms opened and loves the glitz and glamour. No one cares that full pay VP is gone. They care that this celebrity mayor has his name on a fancy steak.
> > > The Gold Spike opens as a boutique casino, and this poorly located place with the reputation of attracting people with few teeth and poor diction to play pennies, changes its image. But there is no pull pay VP tables.
> > > And slowly they have been disappearing everywhere.
> > > The same with Blackjack.
> > > The Sahara tried a section of full pay tables. Folks did not rush there. See where it is now.
> > > The Riviera is now trying. They have a $10 single zero roulette wheel, one of two in Las Vegas that is not high roller. Do you see any one jumping up and down. On roulette threads I talk about this wheel. No one cares. They care about their mathematically absurd systems to win, about how they can get control of the luck with some pattern of magic. I went and lost $100 last trip and the other double zero wheel was full while this one was half full, just as it was years ago at the Stratosphere when they had one, at the same time they had those wierd pay tables like 9/7 JOB.
> > > On a board like this the audience controls what seems like common sense. It is like going to a tent revival meeting and talking to your neighbor about how back in the neighborhood no on seems to care about Jesus anymore.
> > > Unfortunately, Laughlin does not have the choice of really going upscale like the Plaza is trying to do, because the upper crust doesn't want to go there.
> > > One possible help may be when the "job creators" invest in the solar factory near Avi and create a bunch of jobs, draw a bunch of people. Will those folks gamble? Maybe. Is it reasonable to think that smart people making new technology will also look for high paytables. Well, I have to tell you that I have two friends who teach mathematics. Both of them bet the yo on the craps table and yell to get lucky. I'll wait and see.
> > > They still don't have the money to dress the place up, but they might when the Chinese are done doing the big math and running the economy in Laughlin.
> > > Unfortunately, so far it looks like many of the jobs will be going to retrained locals, the same ones who probably don't gamble. If with all the Chinese money, they brought over a bunch of Chinese folks who had not seen and avoided casinos in Laughlin, it might be a better bet. And that may still happen, once the initial hoopla is over.
> > > I think that the casinos decided that they did not need to compete with one another as much as they needed to squeeze out a few more dollars from current players, to attract the players who will more quickly pump their bankroll into a machine.
> > > As long as rooms in Vegas are just as cheap as rooms in Laughlin, they can't compete.
> > > why would they want educated VP players who might actually squeeze out a profit anyway? Did the Orleans want them when they took out their signature 10/7 and replaces it with 9/6 DB? Those machines are still there. And they get played in spite of the fact that 9/6 DDB is right in the same row. How much math do you need to know compare those pay tables? But they get played.
> > > And the El Cortez is on an upswing. Dancer came and taught VP there and insisted they have full pay. So they did. They put in some 9/6 JOB and then when the classes were over, they took they out.
> > >
> > > I am curious as to what the Aquarius will manage. There are still good pay tables there and they have not been willing to draw in the $7.77 a night tourist. We'll see if that works.
> > > If not, well we can pray that the Chinese will balance Laughlin's budgets. Why not, they do it in one way or another for just about all of America, even the I stand up proud for my country self congratulatory patriotic claptrap. The same folks who can't do the math on the VP paytables can't do it when they elect representatives either. Just like Vegas attracts them when sex is the issue, polititians are generally elected or not on their sex life not on their mathematical ideas.
> > >
> >
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Agreed that no one can predict the future with any great certainty. All we can do is put the odds in our favor. That is exactly what the market has done with solar stocks. A few politicians and bureaucrats certainly do not possess the knowledge and experience of the rest of the population or market as a whole. The market has voted with their own money. Here are some stock stats for 2011:
Canadian Solar -79%
First Solar -74.6%
JA Solar -81.1%
Jinko Solar Holdings -75.6%
LDK Solar -58.2%
If you have some knowledge that the market is not aware of, now could possibly be a great time for investing in solar. Many people are having a difficult time paying for utilities now without significantly increasing costs unnecessarily. By the way are you aware that the Chinese have been building approximately 1 coal fired power plant per week for the last few years? And the EPA is worried about hundredths of a percent of carbon dioxide in auto exhaust.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, not more subsidies for any business, possible exception for immenent catastrophies affecting us all.
···
________________________________
From: dewey <deweyfhill@hotmail.com>
To: vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Laughlin] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 24 Dec
Well, no one can predict the long term future.
I won't be around to see it.
Water is probably another resource soon coming into its own and not to be taken for granted.
Hydrofracting for all that gas may help make fresh, unpolluted water an even more rare commodity.
And the statement that natural gas is overall cleaner than the others is not yet determined, not only for water but for the pollution that might happen if the extractors are more greedy than careful. It is debated, not a done decision.
Green either becomes interesting to the rich investor "job creators," or we can pay China to become the innovators and get the patents so we pay them everytime we go green here, or we can pay the costs of all the environmental disasters that fossil fuels have begun to create that will escalate here and around the world as much as we try to hide out heads in the sand.
My bet is that green technology is just beginning, and it matters who controls the new discoveries and innovations to all the alternative and clean fuels.
In the short run, however, it is hoped that the Chinese may boost Laughlin's economy by creating jobs there and most of them will be local jobs and some of that will spill over to the casinos or even better, to the live poker tables, where the rake is still a good deal and equivalent to good VP tables. Once the deal is made, the Chinese "Job creators" will certainly manage to help the Laughlin depressed economy more that full VP tables.
And that I will be around to see, God willing and the creek don't rise.
As for the idea that the government should not get involved in encouraging new technologies. Well, I might agree if they weren't already involved in corporate welfare at all levels to keep alive the traditional rich, those that give a huge disingenuous shout about the the need for laissez faire government and then become "too big to fail," when they run into hard times.
And there are those that arrange unnecessary wars to make them even richer.
Government might just as well have some vision as be tied to established money interests and established wealth.
So, it isn't about whether government should get involved anymore. It is about how they might get involved, so we just aren't constantly being ripped off by that military industrial complex that Ike predicted. and we are trying to have some vision and move into the new century.
If you really want to know the viability of solar, check THEIR stock prices in 2061.
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@...> wrote:
Exactly. We are now the Saudi Arabia of natural gas, a very low polluter in comparison to oil and coal. If you want to really know the viability of solar, check there stock prices (a disaster).
________________________________
From: lazy <mikel0601@...>
To: vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Laughlin] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 24 DecÂ
I'll believe this Laughlin billion-dollar, solar, liberal pipe-dream when I see it.
Green energy may be the future but it's not anywhere near efficient enough yet to displace fossil fuels. American venture capitalists know this, and they are far from being short-sighted.
I'd rather have the Chinese dump billions into this boondoggle, than see our government spend tax dollars on this. Because when the federal govt. tries to force it, we get Solyndra.--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
>
> I guess you missed the news details.
>
> http://www.lvrj.com/business/plans-to-move-forward-on-laughlin-solar-plant-get-approval-135951198.html
>
> note 9,000 acres used as solar farm, factory, research park.
> Total cost will be 4-6 billion and they will produce 5.4 billion solar panels yearly, some of them tested right there.
>
> The company estimates 2900 construction jobs and then 2200 permanent jobs at about 70 grand each with preference to locals if they can learn to do the highly technical work. 12.5% unemployment in the area means plenty of folks to choose from. Maybe some unemployed somebody studied some math/science in school.
>
> Total cost is estimated at 4-6 billion dollars.
>
> Of course, over time these solar panels, tested right there on buildings, refined, improved, evolving will generate a better solar project. The patents will then be Chinese owned. The future is in green energy here and in the world. But I guess American investors are short sighted, married to fossil fuels and government is in their lobby hands as well. So fifty years from now China will reap the benefits that vision allows.
> But right away it could mean a uplift for Laughlin, perhaps Avi especially as they are close.
>
> --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> >
> > Not sure if metro Laughlin could turn into a mecca for the solar industry. Needs a factory not just a solar power plant. A factory would provide many more jobs including managment jobs.
> >
> > Have to move to the u.s.a. from china to run the new factory for x number of years. Where do you bring your one (maybe two) kid(s).
> > Las Vegas? I think that may meet with some resistance from family.
> > But a 90 minute drive from Vegas can be the best of both worlds.
> >
> > Service between Bullhead and LA airports could kick it off.
> >
> > But all in all, you sure seem to have fingered Laughlin scene.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob972@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
> > > >
> > > *********************
> > >
> > > I hear this argument often. The role of downgrading VP pay tables in making a casino attractive is unclear. We would have to have some hard numbers to see if it makes a difference.
> > > I think those folks who are adding those kinds of numbers do on think it does.
> > > when gambling spread to local places, and respread, I thought that the competition would cause the VP to be player friendly, that my local Indian casino would certainly make nice pay tables to encourage me to play there.
> > > Instead it seemed that Nevada learned from the locals that for the majority of gamblers, the mathematics does not matter one bit. They play because they are driven to play, wired to take risks.
> > > This year we see the renovation of the PLaza. So everyone gets all excited and pays a great deal for the first rooms opened and loves the glitz and glamour. No one cares that full pay VP is gone. They care that this celebrity mayor has his name on a fancy steak.
> > > The Gold Spike opens as a boutique casino, and this poorly located place with the reputation of attracting people with few teeth and poor diction to play pennies, changes its image. But there is no pull pay VP tables.
> > > And slowly they have been disappearing everywhere.
> > > The same with Blackjack.
> > > The Sahara tried a section of full pay tables. Folks did not rush there. See where it is now.
> > > The Riviera is now trying. They have a $10 single zero roulette wheel, one of two in Las Vegas that is not high roller. Do you see any one jumping up and down. On roulette threads I talk about this wheel. No one cares. They care about their mathematically absurd systems to win, about how they can get control of the luck with some pattern of magic. I went and lost $100 last trip and the other double zero wheel was full while this one was half full, just as it was years ago at the Stratosphere when they had one, at the same time they had those wierd pay tables like 9/7 JOB.
> > > On a board like this the audience controls what seems like common sense. It is like going to a tent revival meeting and talking to your neighbor about how back in the neighborhood no on seems to care about Jesus anymore.
> > > Unfortunately, Laughlin does not have the choice of really going upscale like the Plaza is trying to do, because the upper crust doesn't want to go there.
> > > One possible help may be when the "job creators" invest in the solar factory near Avi and create a bunch of jobs, draw a bunch of people. Will those folks gamble? Maybe. Is it reasonable to think that smart people making new technology will also look for high paytables. Well, I have to tell you that I have two friends who teach mathematics. Both of them bet the yo on the craps table and yell to get lucky. I'll wait and see.
> > > They still don't have the money to dress the place up, but they might when the Chinese are done doing the big math and running the economy in Laughlin.
> > > Unfortunately, so far it looks like many of the jobs will be going to retrained locals, the same ones who probably don't gamble. If with all the Chinese money, they brought over a bunch of Chinese folks who had not seen and avoided casinos in Laughlin, it might be a better bet. And that may still happen, once the initial hoopla is over.
> > > I think that the casinos decided that they did not need to compete with one another as much as they needed to squeeze out a few more dollars from current players, to attract the players who will more quickly pump their bankroll into a machine.
> > > As long as rooms in Vegas are just as cheap as rooms in Laughlin, they can't compete.
> > > why would they want educated VP players who might actually squeeze out a profit anyway? Did the Orleans want them when they took out their signature 10/7 and replaces it with 9/6 DB? Those machines are still there. And they get played in spite of the fact that 9/6 DDB is right in the same row. How much math do you need to know compare those pay tables? But they get played.
> > > And the El Cortez is on an upswing. Dancer came and taught VP there and insisted they have full pay. So they did. They put in some 9/6 JOB and then when the classes were over, they took they out.
> > >
> > > I am curious as to what the Aquarius will manage. There are still good pay tables there and they have not been willing to draw in the $7.77 a night tourist. We'll see if that works.
> > > If not, well we can pray that the Chinese will balance Laughlin's budgets. Why not, they do it in one way or another for just about all of America, even the I stand up proud for my country self congratulatory patriotic claptrap. The same folks who can't do the math on the VP paytables can't do it when they elect representatives either. Just like Vegas attracts them when sex is the issue, polititians are generally elected or not on their sex life not on their mathematical ideas.
> > >
> >
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No where am I suggesting that the market will currently reflect what might be good for America 50 years from now. Why would it? Investors want to make investments and only money is involved in the formula. Never is the actual cost in pollution or damage to living space figured in. The market investors don't suffer that loss.
If hydrofracting causes the pollution of water all around the sites in NY, the gas will still make the investors a nice profit until the disaster hits.
If green technology doesn't make a quick buck right now, it still may be a good money maker 50 years from now when China owns all the patents.
The market is just another huge craps table with winners and losers, but only money matters to investors and short term profit regardless of how they leave the environment. Right now the rich manage to make money, but generally at a cost to future inhabitants. We can sometimes actually invest in what might make a better life for our grandchildren, but it is hard. This is where government may help.
the complete revamp of Vegas buses is an interesting example of green thinking starting to be incorporated into actual practice. Federal stimulus money brought to Vegas a bus system that may not sustain itself for a while, but as the culture changes and we go for more mass transit it will. Also, right now the whole bus improvement moves us away from automobile engine pollution simply by linking buses to bikes and giving the bike riders a place to repair, store, change clothes so that benefits everyone breathing in Las Vegas.
Now on Laughlin, the newest news makes your fellas probably right in not trusting this deal. Seems these particular Chinese are just not too trustworthy. So, it may be just a too good to be true deal gone sour.
http://4thst8.wordpress.com/2011/12/29/chinese-solar-panel-company-put-on-credit-watch-days-before-laughlin-land-deal/
Just as well from my viewpoint. As much as I'd like to see Laughln reenergized and the poker tables filled with new folks, I don't want China controlling American soil. It is bad enough they control American finances.
Interesting article on solar in India. It shows that even sooner than we might predict, solar could end up being good for the market as well as just good for living free of pollution and disease.
···
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@...> wrote:
Agreed that no one can predict the future with any great certainty. All we can do is put the odds in our favor. That is exactly what the market has done with solar stocks. A few politicians and bureaucrats certainly do not possess the knowledge and experience of the rest of the population or market as a whole. The market has voted with their own money. Here are some stock stats for 2011:
Canadian Solar -79%
First Solar -74.6%
JA Solar -81.1%
Jinko Solar Holdings -75.6%
LDK Solar -58.2%If you have some knowledge that the market is not aware of, now could possibly be a great time for investing in solar. Many people are having a difficult time paying for utilities now without significantly increasing costs unnecessarily. By the way are you aware that the Chinese have been building approximately 1 coal fired power plant per week for the last few years? And the EPA is worried about hundredths of a percent of carbon dioxide in auto exhaust.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, not more subsidies for any business, possible exception for immenent catastrophies affecting us all.
________________________________
From: dewey <deweyfhill@...>
To: vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Laughlin] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 24 DecÂ
Well, no one can predict the long term future.
I won't be around to see it.Water is probably another resource soon coming into its own and not to be taken for granted.
Hydrofracting for all that gas may help make fresh, unpolluted water an even more rare commodity.
And the statement that natural gas is overall cleaner than the others is not yet determined, not only for water but for the pollution that might happen if the extractors are more greedy than careful. It is debated, not a done decision.Green either becomes interesting to the rich investor "job creators," or we can pay China to become the innovators and get the patents so we pay them everytime we go green here, or we can pay the costs of all the environmental disasters that fossil fuels have begun to create that will escalate here and around the world as much as we try to hide out heads in the sand.
My bet is that green technology is just beginning, and it matters who controls the new discoveries and innovations to all the alternative and clean fuels.
In the short run, however, it is hoped that the Chinese may boost Laughlin's economy by creating jobs there and most of them will be local jobs and some of that will spill over to the casinos or even better, to the live poker tables, where the rake is still a good deal and equivalent to good VP tables. Once the deal is made, the Chinese "Job creators" will certainly manage to help the Laughlin depressed economy more that full VP tables.
And that I will be around to see, God willing and the creek don't rise.
As for the idea that the government should not get involved in encouraging new technologies. Well, I might agree if they weren't already involved in corporate welfare at all levels to keep alive the traditional rich, those that give a huge disingenuous shout about the the need for laissez faire government and then become "too big to fail," when they run into hard times.
And there are those that arrange unnecessary wars to make them even richer.Government might just as well have some vision as be tied to established money interests and established wealth.
So, it isn't about whether government should get involved anymore. It is about how they might get involved, so we just aren't constantly being ripped off by that military industrial complex that Ike predicted. and we are trying to have some vision and move into the new century.If you really want to know the viability of solar, check THEIR stock prices in 2061.
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@> wrote:
>
> Exactly.ÃÂ We are now the Saudi Arabia of natural gas, a very low polluter in comparison to oil and coal.ÃÂ If you want to really know the viability of solar, check there stock prices (a disaster).
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: lazy <mikel0601@>
> To: vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 3:53 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE_Laughlin] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 24 Dec
>
>
> ÃÂ
> I'll believe this Laughlin billion-dollar, solar, liberal pipe-dream when I see it.
> Green energy may be the future but it's not anywhere near efficient enough yet to displace fossil fuels. American venture capitalists know this, and they are far from being short-sighted.
> I'd rather have the Chinese dump billions into this boondoggle, than see our government spend tax dollars on this. Because when the federal govt. tries to force it, we get Solyndra.
>
> --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
> >
> > I guess you missed the news details.
> >
> > http://www.lvrj.com/business/plans-to-move-forward-on-laughlin-solar-plant-get-approval-135951198.html
> >
> > note 9,000 acres used as solar farm, factory, research park.
> > Total cost will be 4-6 billion and they will produce 5.4 billion solar panels yearly, some of them tested right there.
> >
> > The company estimates 2900 construction jobs and then 2200 permanent jobs at about 70 grand each with preference to locals if they can learn to do the highly technical work. 12.5% unemployment in the area means plenty of folks to choose from. Maybe some unemployed somebody studied some math/science in school.
> >
> > Total cost is estimated at 4-6 billion dollars.
> >
> > Of course, over time these solar panels, tested right there on buildings, refined, improved, evolving will generate a better solar project. The patents will then be Chinese owned. The future is in green energy here and in the world. But I guess American investors are short sighted, married to fossil fuels and government is in their lobby hands as well. So fifty years from now China will reap the benefits that vision allows.
> > But right away it could mean a uplift for Laughlin, perhaps Avi especially as they are close.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Not sure if metro Laughlin could turn into a mecca for the solar industry. Needs a factory not just a solar power plant. A factory would provide many more jobs including managment jobs.
> > >
> > > Have to move to the u.s.a. from china to run the new factory for x number of years. Where do you bring your one (maybe two) kid(s).
> > > Las Vegas? I think that may meet with some resistance from family.
> > > But a 90 minute drive from Vegas can be the best of both worlds.
> > >
> > > Service between Bullhead and LA airports could kick it off.
> > >
> > > But all in all, you sure seem to have fingered Laughlin scene.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob972@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
> > > > >
> > > > *********************
> > > >
> > > > I hear this argument often. The role of downgrading VP pay tables in making a casino attractive is unclear. We would have to have some hard numbers to see if it makes a difference.
> > > > I think those folks who are adding those kinds of numbers do on think it does.
> > > > when gambling spread to local places, and respread, I thought that the competition would cause the VP to be player friendly, that my local Indian casino would certainly make nice pay tables to encourage me to play there.
> > > > Instead it seemed that Nevada learned from the locals that for the majority of gamblers, the mathematics does not matter one bit. They play because they are driven to play, wired to take risks.
> > > > This year we see the renovation of the PLaza. So everyone gets all excited and pays a great deal for the first rooms opened and loves the glitz and glamour. No one cares that full pay VP is gone. They care that this celebrity mayor has his name on a fancy steak.
> > > > The Gold Spike opens as a boutique casino, and this poorly located place with the reputation of attracting people with few teeth and poor diction to play pennies, changes its image. But there is no pull pay VP tables.
> > > > And slowly they have been disappearing everywhere.
> > > > The same with Blackjack.
> > > > The Sahara tried a section of full pay tables. Folks did not rush there. See where it is now.
> > > > The Riviera is now trying. They have a $10 single zero roulette wheel, one of two in Las Vegas that is not high roller. Do you see any one jumping up and down. On roulette threads I talk about this wheel. No one cares. They care about their mathematically absurd systems to win, about how they can get control of the luck with some pattern of magic. I went and lost $100 last trip and the other double zero wheel was full while this one was half full, just as it was years ago at the Stratosphere when they had one, at the same time they had those wierd pay tables like 9/7 JOB.
> > > > On a board like this the audience controls what seems like common sense. It is like going to a tent revival meeting and talking to your neighbor about how back in the neighborhood no on seems to care about Jesus anymore.
> > > > Unfortunately, Laughlin does not have the choice of really going upscale like the Plaza is trying to do, because the upper crust doesn't want to go there.
> > > > One possible help may be when the "job creators" invest in the solar factory near Avi and create a bunch of jobs, draw a bunch of people. Will those folks gamble? Maybe. Is it reasonable to think that smart people making new technology will also look for high paytables. Well, I have to tell you that I have two friends who teach mathematics. Both of them bet the yo on the craps table and yell to get lucky. I'll wait and see.
> > > > They still don't have the money to dress the place up, but they might when the Chinese are done doing the big math and running the economy in Laughlin.
> > > > Unfortunately, so far it looks like many of the jobs will be going to retrained locals, the same ones who probably don't gamble. If with all the Chinese money, they brought over a bunch of Chinese folks who had not seen and avoided casinos in Laughlin, it might be a better bet. And that may still happen, once the initial hoopla is over.
> > > > I think that the casinos decided that they did not need to compete with one another as much as they needed to squeeze out a few more dollars from current players, to attract the players who will more quickly pump their bankroll into a machine.
> > > > As long as rooms in Vegas are just as cheap as rooms in Laughlin, they can't compete.
> > > > why would they want educated VP players who might actually squeeze out a profit anyway? Did the Orleans want them when they took out their signature 10/7 and replaces it with 9/6 DB? Those machines are still there. And they get played in spite of the fact that 9/6 DDB is right in the same row. How much math do you need to know compare those pay tables? But they get played.
> > > > And the El Cortez is on an upswing. Dancer came and taught VP there and insisted they have full pay. So they did. They put in some 9/6 JOB and then when the classes were over, they took they out.
> > > >
> > > > I am curious as to what the Aquarius will manage. There are still good pay tables there and they have not been willing to draw in the $7.77 a night tourist. We'll see if that works.
> > > > If not, well we can pray that the Chinese will balance Laughlin's budgets. Why not, they do it in one way or another for just about all of America, even the I stand up proud for my country self congratulatory patriotic claptrap. The same folks who can't do the math on the VP paytables can't do it when they elect representatives either. Just like Vegas attracts them when sex is the issue, polititians are generally elected or not on their sex life not on their mathematical ideas.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes tell me about buses. Our city learned of a Fed program to purchase large buses for mass transit (capacity around 45). After a year many of their routes averaged a bit less than TWO people riding at any given time. The cost to you and me for each bus was $315,000! No efficiency there, free cab rides would have been infinitely cheaper. Mini vans would have been cheaper, but the program mandated a certain size bus with other equally useless provisions. There is no end to how much the government can waste. Multiply this program by the thousands and a person can begin to imagine how idiotic politicians and bureaucrats can be. The green movement is largely a front for liberal causes. Doubt that? Remember back when conversation of forests, land, and water were all the rage, Smokey bear etc. Liberals wanted to do away with anything with the word conservative in it. Again markets with the knowledge, intellect, and experience trump the
agendas of a few who believe they and they alone have the answers.
···
________________________________
From: dewey <deweyfhill@hotmail.com>
To: vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 11:34 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Laughlin] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 24 Dec
No where am I suggesting that the market will currently reflect what might be good for America 50 years from now. Why would it? Investors want to make investments and only money is involved in the formula. Never is the actual cost in pollution or damage to living space figured in. The market investors don't suffer that loss.
If hydrofracting causes the pollution of water all around the sites in NY, the gas will still make the investors a nice profit until the disaster hits.
If green technology doesn't make a quick buck right now, it still may be a good money maker 50 years from now when China owns all the patents.
The market is just another huge craps table with winners and losers, but only money matters to investors and short term profit regardless of how they leave the environment. Right now the rich manage to make money, but generally at a cost to future inhabitants. We can sometimes actually invest in what might make a better life for our grandchildren, but it is hard. This is where government may help.
the complete revamp of Vegas buses is an interesting example of green thinking starting to be incorporated into actual practice. Federal stimulus money brought to Vegas a bus system that may not sustain itself for a while, but as the culture changes and we go for more mass transit it will. Also, right now the whole bus improvement moves us away from automobile engine pollution simply by linking buses to bikes and giving the bike riders a place to repair, store, change clothes so that benefits everyone breathing in Las Vegas.
Now on Laughlin, the newest news makes your fellas probably right in not trusting this deal. Seems these particular Chinese are just not too trustworthy. So, it may be just a too good to be true deal gone sour.
http://4thst8.wordpress.com/2011/12/29/chinese-solar-panel-company-put-on-credit-watch-days-before-laughlin-land-deal/
Just as well from my viewpoint. As much as I'd like to see Laughln reenergized and the poker tables filled with new folks, I don't want China controlling American soil. It is bad enough they control American finances.
Interesting article on solar in India. It shows that even sooner than we might predict, solar could end up being good for the market as well as just good for living free of pollution and disease.
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@...> wrote:
Agreed that no one can predict the future with any great certainty. All we can do is put the odds in our favor. That is exactly what the market has done with solar stocks. A few politicians and bureaucrats certainly do not possess the knowledge and experience of the rest of the population or market as a whole. The market has voted with their own money. Here are some stock stats for 2011:
Canadian Solar -79%
First Solar -74.6%
JA Solar -81.1%
Jinko Solar Holdings -75.6%
LDK Solar -58.2%If you have some knowledge that the market is not aware of, now could possibly be a great time for investing in solar. Many people are having a difficult time paying for utilities now without significantly increasing costs unnecessarily. By the way are you aware that the Chinese have been building approximately 1 coal fired power plant per week for the last few years? And the EPA is worried about hundredths of a percent of carbon dioxide in auto exhaust.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, not more subsidies for any business, possible exception for immenent catastrophies affecting us all.
________________________________
From: dewey <deweyfhill@...>
To: vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Laughlin] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 24 DecÂ
Well, no one can predict the long term future.
I won't be around to see it.Water is probably another resource soon coming into its own and not to be taken for granted.
Hydrofracting for all that gas may help make fresh, unpolluted water an even more rare commodity.
And the statement that natural gas is overall cleaner than the others is not yet determined, not only for water but for the pollution that might happen if the extractors are more greedy than careful. It is debated, not a done decision.Green either becomes interesting to the rich investor "job creators," or we can pay China to become the innovators and get the patents so we pay them everytime we go green here, or we can pay the costs of all the environmental disasters that fossil fuels have begun to create that will escalate here and around the world as much as we try to hide out heads in the sand.
My bet is that green technology is just beginning, and it matters who controls the new discoveries and innovations to all the alternative and clean fuels.
In the short run, however, it is hoped that the Chinese may boost Laughlin's economy by creating jobs there and most of them will be local jobs and some of that will spill over to the casinos or even better, to the live poker tables, where the rake is still a good deal and equivalent to good VP tables. Once the deal is made, the Chinese "Job creators" will certainly manage to help the Laughlin depressed economy more that full VP tables.
And that I will be around to see, God willing and the creek don't rise.
As for the idea that the government should not get involved in encouraging new technologies. Well, I might agree if they weren't already involved in corporate welfare at all levels to keep alive the traditional rich, those that give a huge disingenuous shout about the the need for laissez faire government and then become "too big to fail," when they run into hard times.
And there are those that arrange unnecessary wars to make them even richer.Government might just as well have some vision as be tied to established money interests and established wealth.
So, it isn't about whether government should get involved anymore. It is about how they might get involved, so we just aren't constantly being ripped off by that military industrial complex that Ike predicted. and we are trying to have some vision and move into the new century.If you really want to know the viability of solar, check THEIR stock prices in 2061.
--- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, hedonist144 <hedonist144@> wrote:
>
> Exactly. We are now the Saudi Arabia of natural gas, a very low polluter in comparison to oil and coal. If you want to really know the viability of solar, check there stock prices (a disaster).
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: lazy <mikel0601@>
> To: vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 3:53 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE_Laughlin] Re: LVA Question of the Day - 24 Dec
>
>
> ÂÂ
> I'll believe this Laughlin billion-dollar, solar, liberal pipe-dream when I see it.
> Green energy may be the future but it's not anywhere near efficient enough yet to displace fossil fuels. American venture capitalists know this, and they are far from being short-sighted.
> I'd rather have the Chinese dump billions into this boondoggle, than see our government spend tax dollars on this. Because when the federal govt. tries to force it, we get Solyndra.
>
> --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
> >
> > I guess you missed the news details.
> >
> > http://www.lvrj.com/business/plans-to-move-forward-on-laughlin-solar-plant-get-approval-135951198.html
> >
> > note 9,000 acres used as solar farm, factory, research park.
> > Total cost will be 4-6 billion and they will produce 5.4 billion solar panels yearly, some of them tested right there.
> >
> > The company estimates 2900 construction jobs and then 2200 permanent jobs at about 70 grand each with preference to locals if they can learn to do the highly technical work. 12.5% unemployment in the area means plenty of folks to choose from. Maybe some unemployed somebody studied some math/science in school.
> >
> > Total cost is estimated at 4-6 billion dollars.
> >
> > Of course, over time these solar panels, tested right there on buildings, refined, improved, evolving will generate a better solar project. The patents will then be Chinese owned. The future is in green energy here and in the world. But I guess American investors are short sighted, married to fossil fuels and government is in their lobby hands as well. So fifty years from now China will reap the benefits that vision allows.
> > But right away it could mean a uplift for Laughlin, perhaps Avi especially as they are close.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Not sure if metro Laughlin could turn into a mecca for the solar industry. Needs a factory not just a solar power plant. A factory would provide many more jobs including managment jobs.
> > >
> > > Have to move to the u.s.a. from china to run the new factory for x number of years. Where do you bring your one (maybe two) kid(s).
> > > Las Vegas? I think that may meet with some resistance from family.
> > > But a 90 minute drive from Vegas can be the best of both worlds.
> > >
> > > Service between Bullhead and LA airports could kick it off.
> > >
> > > But all in all, you sure seem to have fingered Laughlin scene.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "dewey" <deweyfhill@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vpFREE_Laughlin@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bob972@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Funny...if a place is showing sign of age, (RP), I always thought an owner has to dress the place up in order to entice people to patronize. Doesn't the same principle also apply to downgrading machines too?
> > > > >
> > > > *********************
> > > >
> > > > I hear this argument often. The role of downgrading VP pay tables in making a casino attractive is unclear. We would have to have some hard numbers to see if it makes a difference.
> > > > I think those folks who are adding those kinds of numbers do on think it does.
> > > > when gambling spread to local places, and respread, I thought that the competition would cause the VP to be player friendly, that my local Indian casino would certainly make nice pay tables to encourage me to play there.
> > > > Instead it seemed that Nevada learned from the locals that for the majority of gamblers, the mathematics does not matter one bit. They play because they are driven to play, wired to take risks.
> > > > This year we see the renovation of the PLaza. So everyone gets all excited and pays a great deal for the first rooms opened and loves the glitz and glamour. No one cares that full pay VP is gone. They care that this celebrity mayor has his name on a fancy steak.
> > > > The Gold Spike opens as a boutique casino, and this poorly located place with the reputation of attracting people with few teeth and poor diction to play pennies, changes its image. But there is no pull pay VP tables.
> > > > And slowly they have been disappearing everywhere.
> > > > The same with Blackjack.
> > > > The Sahara tried a section of full pay tables. Folks did not rush there. See where it is now.
> > > > The Riviera is now trying. They have a $10 single zero roulette wheel, one of two in Las Vegas that is not high roller. Do you see any one jumping up and down. On roulette threads I talk about this wheel. No one cares. They care about their mathematically absurd systems to win, about how they can get control of the luck with some pattern of magic. I went and lost $100 last trip and the other double zero wheel was full while this one was half full, just as it was years ago at the Stratosphere when they had one, at the same time they had those wierd pay tables like 9/7 JOB.
> > > > On a board like this the audience controls what seems like common sense. It is like going to a tent revival meeting and talking to your neighbor about how back in the neighborhood no on seems to care about Jesus anymore.
> > > > Unfortunately, Laughlin does not have the choice of really going upscale like the Plaza is trying to do, because the upper crust doesn't want to go there.
> > > > One possible help may be when the "job creators" invest in the solar factory near Avi and create a bunch of jobs, draw a bunch of people. Will those folks gamble? Maybe. Is it reasonable to think that smart people making new technology will also look for high paytables. Well, I have to tell you that I have two friends who teach mathematics. Both of them bet the yo on the craps table and yell to get lucky. I'll wait and see.
> > > > They still don't have the money to dress the place up, but they might when the Chinese are done doing the big math and running the economy in Laughlin.
> > > > Unfortunately, so far it looks like many of the jobs will be going to retrained locals, the same ones who probably don't gamble. If with all the Chinese money, they brought over a bunch of Chinese folks who had not seen and avoided casinos in Laughlin, it might be a better bet. And that may still happen, once the initial hoopla is over.
> > > > I think that the casinos decided that they did not need to compete with one another as much as they needed to squeeze out a few more dollars from current players, to attract the players who will more quickly pump their bankroll into a machine.
> > > > As long as rooms in Vegas are just as cheap as rooms in Laughlin, they can't compete.
> > > > why would they want educated VP players who might actually squeeze out a profit anyway? Did the Orleans want them when they took out their signature 10/7 and replaces it with 9/6 DB? Those machines are still there. And they get played in spite of the fact that 9/6 DDB is right in the same row. How much math do you need to know compare those pay tables? But they get played.
> > > > And the El Cortez is on an upswing. Dancer came and taught VP there and insisted they have full pay. So they did. They put in some 9/6 JOB and then when the classes were over, they took they out.
> > > >
> > > > I am curious as to what the Aquarius will manage. There are still good pay tables there and they have not been willing to draw in the $7.77 a night tourist. We'll see if that works.
> > > > If not, well we can pray that the Chinese will balance Laughlin's budgets. Why not, they do it in one way or another for just about all of America, even the I stand up proud for my country self congratulatory patriotic claptrap. The same folks who can't do the math on the VP paytables can't do it when they elect representatives either. Just like Vegas attracts them when sex is the issue, polititians are generally elected or not on their sex life not on their mathematical ideas.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]