vpFREE2 Forums

LVA High EV Play

#1

The SEP LV Advisor spotlights a high EV play at the
O'Aces bar on Decatur and Tropicana in LV for royals
hit on 25c VP during Monday Night Football games this
year.

$500 bonus for hitting a royal.

$1000 bonus for hitting a second royal.

$2000 bonus for hitting a third royal.

$3500 bonus for hitting a fourth royal.

Start over again after fourth royal.

Their best 25c game is 8/6 JoB with a 130-coin pay for
quads in triple plays, and maybe single line also. The ERs
for the 8/6 JoB are 99.7%, 100.9%, 103.4%, and 107.2%.

vpFREE Administrator

#2

They had a similar promo a few years back, and most people played
15/9/4/4 deuces because it was available in 5-play. I heard that
midway through the promo they made the deuces ineligible. I don't
know this for a fact firsthand (I don't have time to play time-
intesive promos like this) and I'm not trying to scare anyone off,
but it would sure be awful to hit a couple of royals and then have
them change the rules. Does anyone know the facts about what
happened last time?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:

The SEP LV Advisor spotlights a high EV play at the
O'Aces bar on Decatur and Tropicana in LV for royals
hit on 25c VP during Monday Night Football games this
year.

$500 bonus for hitting a royal.

$1000 bonus for hitting a second royal.

$2000 bonus for hitting a third royal.

$3500 bonus for hitting a fourth royal.

Start over again after fourth royal.

Their best 25c game is 8/6 JoB with a 130-coin pay for
quads in triple plays, and maybe single line also. The ERs
for the 8/6 JoB are 99.7%, 100.9%, 103.4%, and 107.2%.

vpFREE Administrator

#3

Do you have to hit all 4 in one night?

Scot

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE [mailto:vpF…@…net]
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:54 PM
To: vpFREE@Yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] LVA High EV Play

The SEP LV Advisor spotlights a high EV play at the
O'Aces bar on Decatur and Tropicana in LV for royals
hit on 25c VP during Monday Night Football games this
year.

$500 bonus for hitting a royal.

$1000 bonus for hitting a second royal.

$2000 bonus for hitting a third royal.

$3500 bonus for hitting a fourth royal.

Start over again after fourth royal.

Their best 25c game is 8/6 JoB with a 130-coin pay for
quads in triple plays, and maybe single line also. The ERs
for the 8/6 JoB are 99.7%, 100.9%, 103.4%, and 107.2%.

vpFREE Administrator

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#4

No, but they must be hit DURING the Monday night games.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 28 Aug 2004 at 21:35, Scot Krause wrote:

Do you have to hit all 4 in one night?

#5

So it's over the course of the season?

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE [mailto:vpF…@…net]
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:46 PM
To: vpFREE@Yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] LVA High EV Play

On 28 Aug 2004 at 21:35, Scot Krause wrote:

Do you have to hit all 4 in one night?

No, but they must be hit DURING the Monday night games.

vpFREE Administrator

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#6

Hey Everybody!

Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St. Charles) area
with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables? (I've given up on
expecting FPDW or 10/7 DDB, but I'd hoped that at least SOMEPLACE would
offer some form of positive expectation games!)

Harrah's seems PARTICULARLY dismal, and Ameristar in St. Charles seems to
get worse everytime I go. Any suggestions? I'm going to need to be in the
St. Louis area at least through the end of the year and so-far, I've found
the VPickins to be pretty slim.

I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have.

Thanks!

Ron M.
St.Louis, MO

#7

Yes.

···

On 28 Aug 2004 at 22:49, Scot Krause wrote:

So it's over the course of the season?

#8

Ron McGowan wrote:

Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St.
Charles) area with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables?

Check the casino inventory database that can be accessed from the home
page of this group.

I wouldn't be surprised if not, however. Even in the more competitive
markets few casinos seem to compete on vp inventories.

Harrah's AC, for example, has promoted heavily to recapture business
lost to Borgata -- but has made no effort to offer a significant
inventory of good vp to compete with the moderately strong 9/6 Jacks
offering at Borgata.

There is one interesting rumor of some surprising vp additions at
another AC casino. But, frankly, it's sufficiently good that I'm
loathe to repeat it since it's more likely spurious than true.

- Harry

#9

Harry Porter wrote:

There is one interesting rumor of some surprising vp additions at
another AC casino. But, frankly, it's sufficiently good that I'm
loathe to repeat it since it's more likely spurious than true.

I should make it clear these are potential future additions to the
gaming floor, not current ones.

- H.

#10

Ron McGowan wrote:

Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St.Charles) area

with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables?"

Database shows Harrah's as well as some others have some decent vp in the
St. Louis area. I've just recently checked it out since we are heading to
St. Louis for business/pleasure in Sept..

Liz

#11

The VP Free Database for STL is up-to-date:

http://members.cox.net/vpfree/M.htm

Hey Everybody!

Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St.

Charles) area

with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables? (I've given

up on

expecting FPDW or 10/7 DDB, but I'd hoped that at least SOMEPLACE

would

offer some form of positive expectation games!)

Harrah's seems PARTICULARLY dismal, and Ameristar in St. Charles

seems to

get worse everytime I go. Any suggestions? I'm going to need to

be in the

St. Louis area at least through the end of the year and so-far,

I've found

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McGowan" <eltonron@i...> wrote:

the VPickins to be pretty slim.

I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have.

Thanks!

Ron M.
St.Louis, MO

#12

Hey Everybody!

Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St.

Charles) area

with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables?

Well....no.
There used to be some decent stuff in the St. Charles casinos but
now, forget it. Check the database for the best stuff available, and
whatever you do (if you play), make SURE it's some kind of double-
point day or something so you get decent value.

Sadly, as in many other casino jurisdictions, the best VP play in
St. Louis is to hop a plane to Vegas. $79 each way on Southwest if
you book now.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McGowan" <eltonron@i...> wrote:

#13

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McGowan" <eltonron@i...> wrote:
> Hey Everybody!
>
> Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St.
Charles) area
> with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables?

Well....no.

rockofjello, you don't consider All American to be half way decent?

#14

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"

<rockofjello333@y...>

wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McGowan" <eltonron@i...>

wrote:

> > Hey Everybody!
> >
> > Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St.
> Charles) area
> > with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables?
>
> Well....no.

rockofjello, you don't consider All American to be half way decent?

Not really, because its theoretical positive EV is brutally hard to
realize in actual practice. The strategy table is a nightmare. Not
only that, but errors on this game tend to be very costly.
Similar to my contention that 10/7 DB is actually a NEGATIVE EV
game, because it is next to impossible to play it perfectly and even
ONE error can cost you that razor-thin 0.015 edge, I feel that AA is
not in fact a playable VP game.
Of course, if you play it perfectly and beat the snot out of those
machines on a regular basis, more power to you. I'd just like to
note, though, that FPDW, FPJW, even 10/7 DB are not allowed to exist
in the Midwest, but FPAA IS. Could it be that this is actually a
terrific game for the house?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hockeystl" <vegasstl@c...> wrote:

#15

Thanks, Rock. That's what I've unfortunately discovered as well, but I just
wanted to be sure I wasn't missing a diamond-in-the-rough somewhere within
the St. Louis/St. Charles area.

I appreciate the input. It's gonna be a looooooooooong rest of the year.

Ron
p.s. I actually wrote a letter of complaint to Harrah's about the
ridiculously bad pay tables and telling them that neither I, nor my friends
would ever spend a dime in there again, due to their complete lack of
assortment of pay tables that made playing there even remotely worth
pursuing.

Hopefully they'll eventually see that no one is interested in a place where
everybody loses, but I'm not holding my breath for changes to show up
anytime soon, given the general lack of knowledge about pay tables among
most casual VP players. In the meantime as you say, I guess it's Vegas,
baby!

···

-----Original Message-----
From: rockofjello333 [mailto:rockofjello…@…com]
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 3:59 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: St Looie VP

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McGowan" <eltonron@i...> wrote:

Hey Everybody!

Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St.

Charles) area

with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables?

Well....no.
There used to be some decent stuff in the St. Charles casinos but
now, forget it. Check the database for the best stuff available, and
whatever you do (if you play), make SURE it's some kind of double-
point day or something so you get decent value.

Sadly, as in many other casino jurisdictions, the best VP play in
St. Louis is to hop a plane to Vegas. $79 each way on Southwest if
you book now.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#16

I don't know what you are looking for but the VpFREE database shows
several playable games in StL. You won't find full pay DW anywhere
outside Las Vegas. Harrah's, Capri, and Ameristar in Kansas City all
have playable games -- Pick'Em, 9/6 JOB, 8/5 Bonus, NSUD, and AA. If
you are looking for 100% plus games and refuse to play AA then, yes,
you are out of luck.

Rick

Thanks, Rock. That's what I've unfortunately discovered as well,

but I just

wanted to be sure I wasn't missing a diamond-in-the-rough somewhere

within

the St. Louis/St. Charles area.

I appreciate the input. It's gonna be a looooooooooong rest of the

year.

Ron
p.s. I actually wrote a letter of complaint to Harrah's about the
ridiculously bad pay tables and telling them that neither I, nor my

friends

would ever spend a dime in there again, due to their complete lack of
assortment of pay tables that made playing there even remotely worth
pursuing.

Hopefully they'll eventually see that no one is interested in a

place where

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McGowan" <eltonron@i...> wrote:

everybody loses, but I'm not holding my breath for changes to show up
anytime soon, given the general lack of knowledge about pay tables among
most casual VP players. In the meantime as you say, I guess it's Vegas,
baby!

-----Original Message-----
From: rockofjello333 [mailto:rockofjello333@y…]
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 3:59 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: St Looie VP

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McGowan" <eltonron@i...> wrote:
> Hey Everybody!
>
> Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St.
Charles) area
> with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables?

Well....no.
There used to be some decent stuff in the St. Charles casinos but
now, forget it. Check the database for the best stuff available, and
whatever you do (if you play), make SURE it's some kind of double-
point day or something so you get decent value.

Sadly, as in many other casino jurisdictions, the best VP play in
St. Louis is to hop a plane to Vegas. $79 each way on Southwest if
you book now.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#17

Man, I wish I could be so fussy as to turn down a 100.7% return
game! Out here in Cincinnati we get all excited when we find 8/5
Super Aces (a rollercoaster 63 variance).

Please send any unwanted AA machines out to Belterra, Rising Sun or
Argosy Indiana.

Cheers

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Rick & Lucky Lucy" <luckylucy39@e...>
wrote:

I don't know what you are looking for but the VpFREE database shows
several playable games in StL. You won't find full pay DW anywhere
outside Las Vegas. Harrah's, Capri, and Ameristar in Kansas City

all

have playable games -- Pick'Em, 9/6 JOB, 8/5 Bonus, NSUD, and AA.

If

you are looking for 100% plus games and refuse to play AA then, yes,
you are out of luck.

Rick

> Thanks, Rock. That's what I've unfortunately discovered as well,
but I just
> wanted to be sure I wasn't missing a diamond-in-the-rough

somewhere

within
> the St. Louis/St. Charles area.
>
> I appreciate the input. It's gonna be a looooooooooong rest of

the

year.
>
> Ron
> p.s. I actually wrote a letter of complaint to Harrah's about the
> ridiculously bad pay tables and telling them that neither I, nor

my

friends
> would ever spend a dime in there again, due to their complete

lack of

> assortment of pay tables that made playing there even remotely

worth

> pursuing.
>
> Hopefully they'll eventually see that no one is interested in a
place where
> everybody loses, but I'm not holding my breath for changes to

show up

> anytime soon, given the general lack of knowledge about pay

tables among

> most casual VP players. In the meantime as you say, I guess it's

Vegas,

> baby!
>
> From: rockofjello333 [mailto:rockofjello333@y…]
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 3:59 PM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: St Looie VP
>
> — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McGowan" <eltonron@i…>

wrote:

> > Hey Everybody!
> >
> > Does anyone know of any casinos in the Midwest (St. Louis/St.
> Charles) area
> > with VP machines that have half-way decent pay tables?
>
> Well....no.
> There used to be some decent stuff in the St. Charles casinos but
> now, forget it. Check the database for the best stuff available,

and

> whatever you do (if you play), make SURE it's some kind of double-
> point day or something so you get decent value.
>
> Sadly, as in many other casino jurisdictions, the best VP play in
> St. Louis is to hop a plane to Vegas. $79 each way on Southwest

if

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ron McGowan" <eltonron@i...> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> you book now.
>
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links

#18

Not really, because its theoretical positive EV is brutally hard to
realize in actual practice.

With regular practice on Frugal VP or BDWP + using a strategy card
while playing, I would not qualify the strategy anywhere
near 'brually hard.' For the infrequent player who is not familiar
with the game, yes it is difficult... but the average VPFree member
could easily play at ~99.5% accuracy (error effect on max EV) level
after about 20 hours of FVP/BDWP practice and then using a stategy
card as a crutch. Factor in that half point error and they are still
playing a 100%+ game.

I'd just like to
note, though, that FPDW, FPJW, even 10/7 DB are not allowed to
exist
in the Midwest, but FPAA IS.

There is 10/7 DB in 2 STL area casinos.

Could it be that this is actually a
terrific game for the house?

Of course AA is a good game for the house..... but the average STL
ploppy cannot play DW any better than they play AA.

#19

I've been to Harrah's STL three times this year, the most recent trip this past weekend. Every time, I've been there either on a Saturday night or Saturday afternoon. The group of ten $1 multi-game machines that have "short pay AA" on them has been completely deserted every time. No one playing ANYTHING, not even the other games offered besides AA. How could management possibly miss that? I'm pretty sure they DO know and just don't care. Oh well. They got zero play from me once again.

carlos

···

Ron McGowan <eltonron@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[etc]...p.s. I actually wrote a letter of complaint to Harrah's about the
ridiculously bad pay tables and telling them that neither I, nor my friends
would ever spend a dime in there again, due to their complete lack of
assortment of pay tables that made playing there even remotely worth
pursuing.

Hopefully they'll eventually see that no one is interested in a place where
everybody loses, but I'm not holding my breath for changes to show up
anytime soon, given the general lack of knowledge about pay tables among
most casual VP players. In the meantime as you say, I guess it's Vegas,
baby!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#20

I would also question rock's statement, "Not only that, but errors on this game tend to be very costly."

That depends. If you're coming in as a newbie and playing with JOB strategy, the errors you make will be costly ones. However, with some practice the "typical error" in AA tends to be fairly low cost. I play AA pretty well but not perfectly. I occasionally make the Really Dumb Mistake (missing a low pair, which is costly no matter what game you're playing). But most of my errors nowadays show up in WP or Frugal as "0.00" or "0.01" cost. That's not going to kill you on a 100.7% game.

As for AA being good for the house: I don't know why, but AA got to be a "Kansas City tradition" in the 90's. But that has changed. The KC Argosy and Ameristar no longer offer full pay AA in any denomination. The KC Isle of Capri hasn't installed a new MG machine with AA since I moved here in 2001. Harrah's Prairie Band (central Kansas) band has cut back the number of AA machines to about half what they had a year ago. Only KC Harrah's and the Booneville Isle of Capri have AA in any quantity or on new machines.

carlos

Not really, because its theoretical positive EV is brutally hard to
realize in actual practice.

With regular practice on Frugal VP or BDWP + using a strategy card
while playing, I would not qualify the strategy anywhere
near 'brually hard.' For the infrequent player who is not familiar
with the game, yes it is difficult... but the average VPFree member
could easily play at ~99.5% accuracy (error effect on max EV) level
after about 20 hours of FVP/BDWP practice and then using a stategy
card as a crutch. Factor in that half point error and they are still
playing a 100%+ game.

I'd just like to
note, though, that FPDW, FPJW, even 10/7 DB are not allowed to
exist
in the Midwest, but FPAA IS.

There is 10/7 DB in 2 STL area casinos.

Could it be that this is actually a
terrific game for the house?

Of course AA is a good game for the house..... but the average STL
ploppy cannot play DW any better than they play AA.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

hockeystl <vegasstl@charter.net> wrote: