lurker: research and in depth questions about seven star perks - loooong

[campus_chic13]

Hey guys! First I just wanted to thank you guys for the excellent resource you've all put together. You've got me spending/losing the same amount each trip, but now I'm staying in really nice rooms, eating in nicer places, getting comped spa treatments I never would have spent money on, and I don't run out of money to gamble on anymore! You guys rock, and you make me look like some kind of goddess to my boyfriend, who likes to play live poker - and plays it well - but doesn't get much of anything in terms of perks.

It happens that said boyfriend's mom is a slots player. I can't really wrap my head around it, but she's 7* in AC playing slots. It makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit to think about putting $500,000+ through slots. It seems she's either got a sugar daddy or debts or is exceptionally rich, but they do all sorts of nice things for her all the time, and I don't think my boyfriend has ever paid for a bottle of cologne in his life.

ANYWAY, sorry, you don't need to know any of that, this is going to be long enough - the point is, I think I'd like to make 7* to impress them =P Fortunately for me, I am mostly of sound mind, and won't do if it involves losing a lot more than I get. I'm trying to assign dollar values to the perks, both guaranteed and possible.

The perks I've seen so far are:

$1000 minimum in comps, plus anything I get via bonus credits or multipliers
$500 dining credit for four people
$1200 airfare credit for getaway
$500 folio credit for getaway

···

---------
$3200 in retail numbers

$? room (suite?) on getaway
$? complimentary rooms every time we visit
$? discretionary comps above and beyond reward credit comps
$? marketing mailers
$? savings on NCL cruises (30% discount, free drinks in casino)

Because I'm frugal, I can't really count those values above at face value - we definitely wouldn't spend $1200 in airfare for a single trip, or $500 on one dinner. A more reasonable value would be $600 in airfare for one trip, and $250 for one dinner, making the guaranteed comps worth $850 less to me. We've never tended to spend much on hotel rooms - we'd get a night or two free, and book another couple at never more than $100 a night, so $50 a night is a decent figure. I suppose being able to book multiple rooms is of some value to me, because I can get friends to pay for part of my airfare on some trips by booking them their hotel room. Call that another $400, and I'm looking at $3500 in very real dollars I would have spent anyway.

This way, though, I get a lot of nice things I wouldn't normally pay for - room upgrades, line passes, wifi, show tickets, upscale dining, ski lift tickets... I don't know that I can assign these a value, but they are very nice perks.

END BACKSTORY, BEGIN QUESTIONS:

I recently read that you can DRIVE to your annual trip instead of fly (http://jscott.lvablog.com/) and that would make it where we could use every penny of the $1200 set aside for travel allowance. Is that the case for everyone, or just people like Jean Scott? I'd happily take an annual drive to AC from Florida when the leaves change.

If airfare is the only way to do it, I think we'd take the cruise instead. The annual getaway really has a maximum value of roughly $1100 to me - and a balcony NCL cruise to the Caribbean is worth a very minimum of $1200. Would we get in trouble for gambling virtually nothing on the ship? It seems like it'd actually be better than not gambling during a getaway to one of their casinos, right? Has anyone actually made use of the annual cruise? We are usually loyal to Carnival, but a cruise is a cruise =P Heck, with 30% off and free drinks in the casino (can't lose much playing the quarter push game!) we might end up making NCL our regular cruise line.

I'm mostly wondering about the less guaranteed comps - will my ADT get me anything if I stick exclusively to 99.54 or better VP? Even with $1mil through the machines, that's less than $5k lost with perfect play. I'm sure they don't assume .46% loss, but can they possibly value this high enough to ever comp me any more than those base minimums? If so, can I get things that are worth real money to me, like airfare reimbursement? Heck, will they even 'invite' me to 7* with a low ADT but high cash in?

Sorry this is so long, but we spend probably 10k a year on travel, and I'd be willing to lose most of that at VP, if the benefits were things we'd enjoy spending travel money on anyway.

I have a feeling this board is full of people like us - can you guys shed any light on this? Thanks,

Karen

[Rob_Singer]

Interesting info and sounds like you're enjoying what you do. My advice would be to play for the money and not for the comps--the freebies & perks will come naturally. That's what gets a large share of vp players into trouble when they don't need to, because the perks are not the end-all. If you don't make it to your desired level and you won some money along the way, you've out-smarted the entire slot card program and, you did it YOUR way instead of the casino's way.

Good luck.

···

From: campus_chic13 <campus_chic13@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:59 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] lurker: research and in depth questions about seven star perks - loooong

Hey guys! First I just wanted to thank you guys for the excellent resource you've all put together. You've got me spending/losing the same amount each trip, but now I'm staying in really nice rooms, eating in nicer places, getting comped spa treatments I never would have spent money on, and I don't run out of money to gamble on anymore! You guys rock, and you make me look like some kind of goddess to my boyfriend, who likes to play live poker - and plays it well - but doesn't get much of anything in terms of perks.

It happens that said boyfriend's mom is a slots player. I can't really wrap my head around it, but she's 7* in AC playing slots. It makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit to think about putting $500,000+ through slots. It seems she's either got a sugar daddy or debts or is exceptionally rich, but they do all sorts of nice things for her all the time, and I don't think my boyfriend has ever paid for a bottle of cologne in his life.

ANYWAY, sorry, you don't need to know any of that, this is going to be long enough - the point is, I think I'd like to make 7* to impress them =P Fortunately for me, I am mostly of sound mind, and won't do if it involves losing a lot more than I get. I'm trying to assign dollar values to the perks, both guaranteed and possible.

The perks I've seen so far are:

$1000 minimum in comps, plus anything I get via bonus credits or multipliers
$500 dining credit for four people
$1200 airfare credit for getaway
$500 folio credit for getaway
---------
$3200 in retail numbers

$? room (suite?) on getaway
$? complimentary rooms every time we visit
$? discretionary comps above and beyond reward credit comps
$? marketing mailers
$? savings on NCL cruises (30% discount, free drinks in casino)

Because I'm frugal, I can't really count those values above at face value - we definitely wouldn't spend $1200 in airfare for a single trip, or $500 on one dinner. A more reasonable value would be $600 in airfare for one trip, and $250 for one dinner, making the guaranteed comps worth $850 less to me. We've never tended to spend much on hotel rooms - we'd get a night or two free, and book another couple at never more than $100 a night, so $50 a night is a decent figure. I suppose being able to book multiple rooms is of some value to me, because I can get friends to pay for part of my airfare on some trips by booking them their hotel room. Call that another $400, and I'm looking at $3500 in very real dollars I would have spent anyway.

This way, though, I get a lot of nice things I wouldn't normally pay for - room upgrades, line passes, wifi, show tickets, upscale dining, ski lift tickets... I don't know that I can assign these a value, but they are very nice perks.

END BACKSTORY, BEGIN QUESTIONS:

I recently read that you can DRIVE to your annual trip instead of fly (http://jscott.lvablog.com/) and that would make it where we could use every penny of the $1200 set aside for travel allowance. Is that the case for everyone, or just people like Jean Scott? I'd happily take an annual drive to AC from Florida when the leaves change.

If airfare is the only way to do it, I think we'd take the cruise instead. The annual getaway really has a maximum value of roughly $1100 to me - and a balcony NCL cruise to the Caribbean is worth a very minimum of $1200. Would we get in trouble for gambling virtually nothing on the ship? It seems like it'd actually be better than not gambling during a getaway to one of their casinos, right? Has anyone actually made use of the annual cruise? We are usually loyal to Carnival, but a cruise is a cruise =P Heck, with 30% off and free drinks in the casino (can't lose much playing the quarter push game!) we might end up making NCL our regular cruise line.

I'm mostly wondering about the less guaranteed comps - will my ADT get me anything if I stick exclusively to 99.54 or better VP? Even with $1mil through the machines, that's less than $5k lost with perfect play. I'm sure they don't assume .46% loss, but can they possibly value this high enough to ever comp me any more than those base minimums? If so, can I get things that are worth real money to me, like airfare reimbursement? Heck, will they even 'invite' me to 7* with a low ADT but high cash in?

Sorry this is so long, but we spend probably 10k a year on travel, and I'd be willing to lose most of that at VP, if the benefits were things we'd enjoy spending travel money on anyway.

I have a feeling this board is full of people like us - can you guys shed any light on this? Thanks,

Karen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[jim_mason7]

You addressed the comp problem/gambling loss issue very well. The true question is: Can one get back more in comps from Harrah's than
what one drops(loses) on the slots/bad vp to gain 7 status? Exploiting any loyalty/frequent traveler programs is a part time job. If you have the time, you get the goods. The majority of players probably leave a lot of coin on the table.(which of course, funds the system for the few of us that know how to work the system to the maximum advantage)

···

[Harry_Porter]

campus_chic13 wrote:

Hey guys!... You've got me spending/losing the same amount each
trip, but now I'm staying in really nice rooms, eating in nicer
places, getting comped spa treatments I never would have spent
money on, and I don't run out of money to gamble on anymore!

... I think I'd like to make 7* to impress them =P Fortunately for
me, I am mostly of sound mind, and won't do if it involves losing a
lot more than I get. I'm trying to assign dollar values to the
perks, both guaranteed and possible.

... Sorry this is so long, but we spend probably 10k a year on
travel, and I'd be willing to lose most of that at VP, if the
benefits were things we'd enjoy spending travel money on anyway.

I have a feeling this board is full of people like us - can you
guys shed any light on this? Thanks,

Karen

Karen, 7* benefits are very generous. However, I don't know anyone who would assign anywhere near full economic value to the perks. Further, because of the inherent volatility of casino play and consequent downside risk, I also don't know anyone who would play the bulk of required 7* qualifying play solely for the sake of the benefits.

In fact, I think it's safe to say that most who play to 7* (and above) would be motivated to put in most (or all) of that play through incentives unrelated to 7* benefits. In other words, I'm suggesting that most 7* players see the perks as icing on the cake, and not the cake itself.

···

------

What I'm driving at here is a suggestion that you not consider going for 7* primarily motivated by the benefits. (Rob Singer has replied as much, much more concisely!)

Instead, if, in a given year you find that standard play incentives seem to have you on track for at least 70% of the required 8.25k tier credits/mo on a pro rata basis (say 24K cr as of May 1, or 35K cr as July 1 in a given year), then you might well consider pushing your play through the balance of the year with an eye to earning 7* and the related incremental benefits.

Bear in mind, that a very sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more.

If you're a smart player, you should, of course, fare better in most years. But others will tell you that when ill-luck strikes, there's little that can be done about it, and it's not unusual that it does so with a vengeance. If your motivation for play has been the limited number of 7* benefits, it's likely you'll come away from such an experience with a severe case of "gambler's remorse", rather than being in the position to shake it off and look for better play down the road.

Most importantly, you can look to your own play experience to advise you whether you're prepared to take on the risks of 7* qualification play.

I infer from your post that your current play habits fall considerably short of such a qualification (apologies if I'm mistaken). I don't advise a sharp ramp up in either play denomination or frequency to make the leap. Instead, keep a strong record of your session by session play results through the balance of this year and extrapolate to get a good gut feel for your risks from more active play first.

------

A couple of comments re specifics from your post details:

Re 7* annual trip expense allowance: The $1200 is a max allowance for airfare. If not used for air, it generally is left on the table (can't be used for other expenses). btw, just to be clear, the annual trip is restricted to Caesars casino destination cities.

Re 7* annual cruise: This is an separate benefit from the annual trip. Generally speaking, I know of no one penalized for failure to give play while taking the cruise.

Re bf's mother's 7* qualification: As a slot player, where there's little opportunity to reduce expected loss via skill or machine selection, earning 7* typically involves an annual net loss in excess of $20K (the math works out to something like $30K+, assuming 30% of expected losses are offset with casino cash benefits).

It may be that she's simply a hard core player, who get sufficient pleasure from the play itself, on top of tier benefits, to absorb such a loss. However, it may also be the case that for one or two years she's enjoyed the upside of volatility and has managed to garner qualification with a much softer loss -- and may shy away from heavy play down the road when luck inevitably turns sour.

Re comps and ADT: Comps largely go hand in hand with ADT.

In some venues, some attractive ER video poker plays are rated reasonably strong, so that players can see very desirable benefits. But it's becoming more and more the case at Caesars casinos that if you restrict play to the best machines, you'll see only nominal perks. (But 7* tier benefits are secured in almost all cases strictly through meeting the tier credit play threshold, irrespective of actual ADT)

Whatever the case, it's to your advantage to concentrate play to maximize ADT. Play strongly when you chose to play; try to show no casino presence (card activity) on the days you don't play.

Re cruise offers: We've taken 2 NCL cruises via the 7* cruise benefit; taken 4 others earned through casino offers unrelated to 7* status. It's a fantastic benefit, for a regular cruise passenger such as yourself, and not to be passed up!

------

Hope I didn't get too carried away in reply, Karen, and trust there's some insight to be gleaned for you. Best of luck!

- Harry

[haaljo_haaljo]

"...sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more..."

Wealth of information!
$20K could be ~97% machines with 1% cashback/comps/tourneys/gifts.
That's if you think your going to get $10K back.
If your gambling at 99% then, in the long run would be a wash if $10K received in "comps." Good luck with that.

And the database shows 99.7% plus games in some of their joints.
But the times they are a'changing on the 7* gig from even just 2 years ago. And it's like a contagion now at palms, terribles, laughlin trop and conn. mohegan sun (personal favorites).

Also think it's important that one keeps control as to your 7* casino designation. You could be doing most of your play in NOLA and be assigned to AC Harrahs because of your zip code. Think your more "appreciated" by certain Harrahs joints.

How times have changed.

sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

campus_chic13 wrote:
> Hey guys!... You've got me spending/losing the same amount each
> trip, but now I'm staying in really nice rooms, eating in nicer
> places, getting comped spa treatments I never would have spent
> money on, and I don't run out of money to gamble on anymore!
>
> ... I think I'd like to make 7* to impress them =P Fortunately for
> me, I am mostly of sound mind, and won't do if it involves losing a
> lot more than I get. I'm trying to assign dollar values to the
> perks, both guaranteed and possible.
>
> ... Sorry this is so long, but we spend probably 10k a year on
> travel, and I'd be willing to lose most of that at VP, if the
> benefits were things we'd enjoy spending travel money on anyway.
>
> I have a feeling this board is full of people like us - can you
> guys shed any light on this? Thanks,
>
> Karen

Karen, 7* benefits are very generous. However, I don't know anyone who would assign anywhere near full economic value to the perks. Further, because of the inherent volatility of casino play and consequent downside risk, I also don't know anyone who would play the bulk of required 7* qualifying play solely for the sake of the benefits.

In fact, I think it's safe to say that most who play to 7* (and above) would be motivated to put in most (or all) of that play through incentives unrelated to 7* benefits. In other words, I'm suggesting that most 7* players see the perks as icing on the cake, and not the cake itself.

------

What I'm driving at here is a suggestion that you not consider going for 7* primarily motivated by the benefits. (Rob Singer has replied as much, much more concisely!)

Instead, if, in a given year you find that standard play incentives seem to have you on track for at least 70% of the required 8.25k tier credits/mo on a pro rata basis (say 24K cr as of May 1, or 35K cr as July 1 in a given year), then you might well consider pushing your play through the balance of the year with an eye to earning 7* and the related incremental benefits.

Bear in mind, that a very sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more.

If you're a smart player, you should, of course, fare better in most years. But others will tell you that when ill-luck strikes, there's little that can be done about it, and it's not unusual that it does so with a vengeance. If your motivation for play has been the limited number of 7* benefits, it's likely you'll come away from such an experience with a severe case of "gambler's remorse", rather than being in the position to shake it off and look for better play down the road.

Most importantly, you can look to your own play experience to advise you whether you're prepared to take on the risks of 7* qualification play.

I infer from your post that your current play habits fall considerably short of such a qualification (apologies if I'm mistaken). I don't advise a sharp ramp up in either play denomination or frequency to make the leap. Instead, keep a strong record of your session by session play results through the balance of this year and extrapolate to get a good gut feel for your risks from more active play first.

------

A couple of comments re specifics from your post details:

Re 7* annual trip expense allowance: The $1200 is a max allowance for airfare. If not used for air, it generally is left on the table (can't be used for other expenses). btw, just to be clear, the annual trip is restricted to Caesars casino destination cities.

Re 7* annual cruise: This is an separate benefit from the annual trip. Generally speaking, I know of no one penalized for failure to give play while taking the cruise.

Re bf's mother's 7* qualification: As a slot player, where there's little opportunity to reduce expected loss via skill or machine selection, earning 7* typically involves an annual net loss in excess of $20K (the math works out to something like $30K+, assuming 30% of expected losses are offset with casino cash benefits).

It may be that she's simply a hard core player, who get sufficient pleasure from the play itself, on top of tier benefits, to absorb such a loss. However, it may also be the case that for one or two years she's enjoyed the upside of volatility and has managed to garner qualification with a much softer loss -- and may shy away from heavy play down the road when luck inevitably turns sour.

Re comps and ADT: Comps largely go hand in hand with ADT.

In some venues, some attractive ER video poker plays are rated reasonably strong, so that players can see very desirable benefits. But it's becoming more and more the case at Caesars casinos that if you restrict play to the best machines, you'll see only nominal perks. (But 7* tier benefits are secured in almost all cases strictly through meeting the tier credit play threshold, irrespective of actual ADT)

Whatever the case, it's to your advantage to concentrate play to maximize ADT. Play strongly when you chose to play; try to show no casino presence (card activity) on the days you don't play.

Re cruise offers: We've taken 2 NCL cruises via the 7* cruise benefit; taken 4 others earned through casino offers unrelated to 7* status. It's a fantastic benefit, for a regular cruise passenger such as yourself, and not to be passed up!

------

Hope I didn't get too carried away in reply, Karen, and trust there's some insight to be gleaned for you. Best of luck!

- Harry

[James_Thompson]

Does anyone know what 15000 points is worth in free play or comps

James Thompson
Fmr HRH Casino Monitor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[kelso1600_kelso1600]

"Also think it's important that one keeps control as to your 7* casino designation. You could be doing most of your play in NOLA and be assigned to AC Harrahs because of your zip code. "

I have never known Harrahs to designate dominant casino by zip code. It has always been based on either majority of play or majority of visits.

Have you experienced a change from this?

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: haaljo@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:34:32 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: lurker: research and in depth questions about seven star perks - loooong

"...sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more..."

Wealth of information!
$20K could be ~97% machines with 1% cashback/comps/tourneys/gifts.
That's if you think your going to get $10K back.
If your gambling at 99% then, in the long run would be a wash if $10K received in "comps." Good luck with that.

And the database shows 99.7% plus games in some of their joints.
But the times they are a'changing on the 7* gig from even just 2 years ago. And it's like a contagion now at palms, terribles, laughlin trop and conn. mohegan sun (personal favorites).

Also think it's important that one keeps control as to your 7* casino designation. You could be doing most of your play in NOLA and be assigned to AC Harrahs because of your zip code. Think your more "appreciated" by certain Harrahs joints.

How times have changed.

sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more

>
> campus_chic13 wrote:
> > Hey guys!... You've got me spending/losing the same amount each
> > trip, but now I'm staying in really nice rooms, eating in nicer
> > places, getting comped spa treatments I never would have spent
> > money on, and I don't run out of money to gamble on anymore!
> >
> > ... I think I'd like to make 7* to impress them =P Fortunately for
> > me, I am mostly of sound mind, and won't do if it involves losing a
> > lot more than I get. I'm trying to assign dollar values to the
> > perks, both guaranteed and possible.
> >
> > ... Sorry this is so long, but we spend probably 10k a year on
> > travel, and I'd be willing to lose most of that at VP, if the
> > benefits were things we'd enjoy spending travel money on anyway.
> >
> > I have a feeling this board is full of people like us - can you
> > guys shed any light on this? Thanks,
> >
> > Karen
>
> Karen, 7* benefits are very generous. However, I don't know anyone who would assign anywhere near full economic value to the perks. Further, because of the inherent volatility of casino play and consequent downside risk, I also don't know anyone who would play the bulk of required 7* qualifying play solely for the sake of the benefits.
>
> In fact, I think it's safe to say that most who play to 7* (and above) would be motivated to put in most (or all) of that play through incentives unrelated to 7* benefits. In other words, I'm suggesting that most 7* players see the perks as icing on the cake, and not the cake itself.
>
> ------
>
> What I'm driving at here is a suggestion that you not consider going for 7* primarily motivated by the benefits. (Rob Singer has replied as much, much more concisely!)
>
> Instead, if, in a given year you find that standard play incentives seem to have you on track for at least 70% of the required 8.25k tier credits/mo on a pro rata basis (say 24K cr as of May 1, or 35K cr as July 1 in a given year), then you might well consider pushing your play through the balance of the year with an eye to earning 7* and the related incremental benefits.
>
> Bear in mind, that a very sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more.
>
> If you're a smart player, you should, of course, fare better in most years. But others will tell you that when ill-luck strikes, there's little that can be done about it, and it's not unusual that it does so with a vengeance. If your motivation for play has been the limited number of 7* benefits, it's likely you'll come away from such an experience with a severe case of "gambler's remorse", rather than being in the position to shake it off and look for better play down the road.
>
> Most importantly, you can look to your own play experience to advise you whether you're prepared to take on the risks of 7* qualification play.
>
> I infer from your post that your current play habits fall considerably short of such a qualification (apologies if I'm mistaken). I don't advise a sharp ramp up in either play denomination or frequency to make the leap. Instead, keep a strong record of your session by session play results through the balance of this year and extrapolate to get a good gut feel for your risks from more active play first.
>
> ------
>
> A couple of comments re specifics from your post details:
>
> Re 7* annual trip expense allowance: The $1200 is a max allowance for airfare. If not used for air, it generally is left on the table (can't be used for other expenses). btw, just to be clear, the annual trip is restricted to Caesars casino destination cities.
>
> Re 7* annual cruise: This is an separate benefit from the annual trip. Generally speaking, I know of no one penalized for failure to give play while taking the cruise.
>
> Re bf's mother's 7* qualification: As a slot player, where there's little opportunity to reduce expected loss via skill or machine selection, earning 7* typically involves an annual net loss in excess of $20K (the math works out to something like $30K+, assuming 30% of expected losses are offset with casino cash benefits).
>
> It may be that she's simply a hard core player, who get sufficient pleasure from the play itself, on top of tier benefits, to absorb such a loss. However, it may also be the case that for one or two years she's enjoyed the upside of volatility and has managed to garner qualification with a much softer loss -- and may shy away from heavy play down the road when luck inevitably turns sour.
>
> Re comps and ADT: Comps largely go hand in hand with ADT.
>
> In some venues, some attractive ER video poker plays are rated reasonably strong, so that players can see very desirable benefits. But it's becoming more and more the case at Caesars casinos that if you restrict play to the best machines, you'll see only nominal perks. (But 7* tier benefits are secured in almost all cases strictly through meeting the tier credit play threshold, irrespective of actual ADT)
>
> Whatever the case, it's to your advantage to concentrate play to maximize ADT. Play strongly when you chose to play; try to show no casino presence (card activity) on the days you don't play.
>
> Re cruise offers: We've taken 2 NCL cruises via the 7* cruise benefit; taken 4 others earned through casino offers unrelated to 7* status. It's a fantastic benefit, for a regular cruise passenger such as yourself, and not to be passed up!
>
> ------
>
> Hope I didn't get too carried away in reply, Karen, and trust there's some insight to be gleaned for you. Best of luck!
>
> - Harry
>

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

[Barry_Shiffrin1]

15,000 points is worth $150.00 in comps.

Barry

···

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 21, 2011, at 4:43 PM, James Thompson <jamesgthompson@hotmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone know what 15000 points is worth in free play or comps

James Thompson
Fmr HRH Casino Monitor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[haaljo_haaljo]

Last year decided to do 7* and gambled mostly in Laughlin (until they decimated the joint); then finished up mostly at NOLA and Reno/Tahoe.
Got assigned to Atlantic City and nothing "could be done about it" but didn't try very hard as 7* isn't worth it nowadays.

We are in Boston but have not gone much to AC preferring greener pastures. Have times changed. My theory is AC has 7* gamblers coming out of their ears.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:

"Also think it's important that one keeps control as to your 7* casino designation. You could be doing most of your play in NOLA and be assigned to AC Harrahs because of your zip code. "

I have never known Harrahs to designate dominant casino by zip code. It has always been based on either majority of play or majority of visits.

Have you experienced a change from this?

> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> From: haaljo@...
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:34:32 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: lurker: research and in depth questions about seven star perks - loooong
>
> "...sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more..."
>
> Wealth of information!
> $20K could be ~97% machines with 1% cashback/comps/tourneys/gifts.
> That's if you think your going to get $10K back.
> If your gambling at 99% then, in the long run would be a wash if $10K received in "comps." Good luck with that.
>
> And the database shows 99.7% plus games in some of their joints.
> But the times they are a'changing on the 7* gig from even just 2 years ago. And it's like a contagion now at palms, terribles, laughlin trop and conn. mohegan sun (personal favorites).
>
> Also think it's important that one keeps control as to your 7* casino designation. You could be doing most of your play in NOLA and be assigned to AC Harrahs because of your zip code. Think your more "appreciated" by certain Harrahs joints.
>
> How times have changed.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@> wrote:
> sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more
>
>
> >
> > campus_chic13 wrote:
> > > Hey guys!... You've got me spending/losing the same amount each
> > > trip, but now I'm staying in really nice rooms, eating in nicer
> > > places, getting comped spa treatments I never would have spent
> > > money on, and I don't run out of money to gamble on anymore!
> > >
> > > ... I think I'd like to make 7* to impress them =P Fortunately for
> > > me, I am mostly of sound mind, and won't do if it involves losing a
> > > lot more than I get. I'm trying to assign dollar values to the
> > > perks, both guaranteed and possible.
> > >
> > > ... Sorry this is so long, but we spend probably 10k a year on
> > > travel, and I'd be willing to lose most of that at VP, if the
> > > benefits were things we'd enjoy spending travel money on anyway.
> > >
> > > I have a feeling this board is full of people like us - can you
> > > guys shed any light on this? Thanks,
> > >
> > > Karen
> >
> > Karen, 7* benefits are very generous. However, I don't know anyone who would assign anywhere near full economic value to the perks. Further, because of the inherent volatility of casino play and consequent downside risk, I also don't know anyone who would play the bulk of required 7* qualifying play solely for the sake of the benefits.
> >
> > In fact, I think it's safe to say that most who play to 7* (and above) would be motivated to put in most (or all) of that play through incentives unrelated to 7* benefits. In other words, I'm suggesting that most 7* players see the perks as icing on the cake, and not the cake itself.
> >
> > ------
> >
> > What I'm driving at here is a suggestion that you not consider going for 7* primarily motivated by the benefits. (Rob Singer has replied as much, much more concisely!)
> >
> > Instead, if, in a given year you find that standard play incentives seem to have you on track for at least 70% of the required 8.25k tier credits/mo on a pro rata basis (say 24K cr as of May 1, or 35K cr as July 1 in a given year), then you might well consider pushing your play through the balance of the year with an eye to earning 7* and the related incremental benefits.
> >
> > Bear in mind, that a very sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more.
> >
> > If you're a smart player, you should, of course, fare better in most years. But others will tell you that when ill-luck strikes, there's little that can be done about it, and it's not unusual that it does so with a vengeance. If your motivation for play has been the limited number of 7* benefits, it's likely you'll come away from such an experience with a severe case of "gambler's remorse", rather than being in the position to shake it off and look for better play down the road.
> >
> > Most importantly, you can look to your own play experience to advise you whether you're prepared to take on the risks of 7* qualification play.
> >
> > I infer from your post that your current play habits fall considerably short of such a qualification (apologies if I'm mistaken). I don't advise a sharp ramp up in either play denomination or frequency to make the leap. Instead, keep a strong record of your session by session play results through the balance of this year and extrapolate to get a good gut feel for your risks from more active play first.
> >
> > ------
> >
> > A couple of comments re specifics from your post details:
> >
> > Re 7* annual trip expense allowance: The $1200 is a max allowance for airfare. If not used for air, it generally is left on the table (can't be used for other expenses). btw, just to be clear, the annual trip is restricted to Caesars casino destination cities.
> >
> > Re 7* annual cruise: This is an separate benefit from the annual trip. Generally speaking, I know of no one penalized for failure to give play while taking the cruise.
> >
> > Re bf's mother's 7* qualification: As a slot player, where there's little opportunity to reduce expected loss via skill or machine selection, earning 7* typically involves an annual net loss in excess of $20K (the math works out to something like $30K+, assuming 30% of expected losses are offset with casino cash benefits).
> >
> > It may be that she's simply a hard core player, who get sufficient pleasure from the play itself, on top of tier benefits, to absorb such a loss. However, it may also be the case that for one or two years she's enjoyed the upside of volatility and has managed to garner qualification with a much softer loss -- and may shy away from heavy play down the road when luck inevitably turns sour.
> >
> > Re comps and ADT: Comps largely go hand in hand with ADT.
> >
> > In some venues, some attractive ER video poker plays are rated reasonably strong, so that players can see very desirable benefits. But it's becoming more and more the case at Caesars casinos that if you restrict play to the best machines, you'll see only nominal perks. (But 7* tier benefits are secured in almost all cases strictly through meeting the tier credit play threshold, irrespective of actual ADT)
> >
> > Whatever the case, it's to your advantage to concentrate play to maximize ADT. Play strongly when you chose to play; try to show no casino presence (card activity) on the days you don't play.
> >
> > Re cruise offers: We've taken 2 NCL cruises via the 7* cruise benefit; taken 4 others earned through casino offers unrelated to 7* status. It's a fantastic benefit, for a regular cruise passenger such as yourself, and not to be passed up!
> >
> > ------
> >
> > Hope I didn't get too carried away in reply, Karen, and trust there's some insight to be gleaned for you. Best of luck!
> >
> > - Harry
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
                 
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[haaljo_haaljo]

Last year decided to do 7* and gambled mostly in Laughlin (until they decimated the joint); then finished up mostly at NOLA and Reno/Tahoe.
Got assigned to Atlantic City and nothing "could be done about it" but didn't try very hard as 7* isn't worth it nowadays.

We are in Boston but have not gone much to AC preferring greener pastures. Have times changed. My theory is AC has 7* gamblers coming out of their ears.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:

"Also think it's important that one keeps control as to your 7* casino designation. You could be doing most of your play in NOLA and be assigned to AC Harrahs because of your zip code. "

I have never known Harrahs to designate dominant casino by zip code. It has always been based on either majority of play or majority of visits.

Have you experienced a change from this?

> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> From: haaljo@...
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:34:32 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: lurker: research and in depth questions about seven star perks - loooong
>
> "...sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more..."
>
> Wealth of information!
> $20K could be ~97% machines with 1% cashback/comps/tourneys/gifts.
> That's if you think your going to get $10K back.
> If your gambling at 99% then, in the long run would be a wash if $10K received in "comps." Good luck with that.
>
> And the database shows 99.7% plus games in some of their joints.
> But the times they are a'changing on the 7* gig from even just 2 years ago. And it's like a contagion now at palms, terribles, laughlin trop and conn. mohegan sun (personal favorites).
>
> Also think it's important that one keeps control as to your 7* casino designation. You could be doing most of your play in NOLA and be assigned to AC Harrahs because of your zip code. Think your more "appreciated" by certain Harrahs joints.
>
> How times have changed.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@> wrote:
> sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more
>
>
> >
> > campus_chic13 wrote:
> > > Hey guys!... You've got me spending/losing the same amount each
> > > trip, but now I'm staying in really nice rooms, eating in nicer
> > > places, getting comped spa treatments I never would have spent
> > > money on, and I don't run out of money to gamble on anymore!
> > >
> > > ... I think I'd like to make 7* to impress them =P Fortunately for
> > > me, I am mostly of sound mind, and won't do if it involves losing a
> > > lot more than I get. I'm trying to assign dollar values to the
> > > perks, both guaranteed and possible.
> > >
> > > ... Sorry this is so long, but we spend probably 10k a year on
> > > travel, and I'd be willing to lose most of that at VP, if the
> > > benefits were things we'd enjoy spending travel money on anyway.
> > >
> > > I have a feeling this board is full of people like us - can you
> > > guys shed any light on this? Thanks,
> > >
> > > Karen
> >
> > Karen, 7* benefits are very generous. However, I don't know anyone who would assign anywhere near full economic value to the perks. Further, because of the inherent volatility of casino play and consequent downside risk, I also don't know anyone who would play the bulk of required 7* qualifying play solely for the sake of the benefits.
> >
> > In fact, I think it's safe to say that most who play to 7* (and above) would be motivated to put in most (or all) of that play through incentives unrelated to 7* benefits. In other words, I'm suggesting that most 7* players see the perks as icing on the cake, and not the cake itself.
> >
> > ------
> >
> > What I'm driving at here is a suggestion that you not consider going for 7* primarily motivated by the benefits. (Rob Singer has replied as much, much more concisely!)
> >
> > Instead, if, in a given year you find that standard play incentives seem to have you on track for at least 70% of the required 8.25k tier credits/mo on a pro rata basis (say 24K cr as of May 1, or 35K cr as July 1 in a given year), then you might well consider pushing your play through the balance of the year with an eye to earning 7* and the related incremental benefits.
> >
> > Bear in mind, that a very sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more.
> >
> > If you're a smart player, you should, of course, fare better in most years. But others will tell you that when ill-luck strikes, there's little that can be done about it, and it's not unusual that it does so with a vengeance. If your motivation for play has been the limited number of 7* benefits, it's likely you'll come away from such an experience with a severe case of "gambler's remorse", rather than being in the position to shake it off and look for better play down the road.
> >
> > Most importantly, you can look to your own play experience to advise you whether you're prepared to take on the risks of 7* qualification play.
> >
> > I infer from your post that your current play habits fall considerably short of such a qualification (apologies if I'm mistaken). I don't advise a sharp ramp up in either play denomination or frequency to make the leap. Instead, keep a strong record of your session by session play results through the balance of this year and extrapolate to get a good gut feel for your risks from more active play first.
> >
> > ------
> >
> > A couple of comments re specifics from your post details:
> >
> > Re 7* annual trip expense allowance: The $1200 is a max allowance for airfare. If not used for air, it generally is left on the table (can't be used for other expenses). btw, just to be clear, the annual trip is restricted to Caesars casino destination cities.
> >
> > Re 7* annual cruise: This is an separate benefit from the annual trip. Generally speaking, I know of no one penalized for failure to give play while taking the cruise.
> >
> > Re bf's mother's 7* qualification: As a slot player, where there's little opportunity to reduce expected loss via skill or machine selection, earning 7* typically involves an annual net loss in excess of $20K (the math works out to something like $30K+, assuming 30% of expected losses are offset with casino cash benefits).
> >
> > It may be that she's simply a hard core player, who get sufficient pleasure from the play itself, on top of tier benefits, to absorb such a loss. However, it may also be the case that for one or two years she's enjoyed the upside of volatility and has managed to garner qualification with a much softer loss -- and may shy away from heavy play down the road when luck inevitably turns sour.
> >
> > Re comps and ADT: Comps largely go hand in hand with ADT.
> >
> > In some venues, some attractive ER video poker plays are rated reasonably strong, so that players can see very desirable benefits. But it's becoming more and more the case at Caesars casinos that if you restrict play to the best machines, you'll see only nominal perks. (But 7* tier benefits are secured in almost all cases strictly through meeting the tier credit play threshold, irrespective of actual ADT)
> >
> > Whatever the case, it's to your advantage to concentrate play to maximize ADT. Play strongly when you chose to play; try to show no casino presence (card activity) on the days you don't play.
> >
> > Re cruise offers: We've taken 2 NCL cruises via the 7* cruise benefit; taken 4 others earned through casino offers unrelated to 7* status. It's a fantastic benefit, for a regular cruise passenger such as yourself, and not to be passed up!
> >
> > ------
> >
> > Hope I didn't get too carried away in reply, Karen, and trust there's some insight to be gleaned for you. Best of luck!
> >
> > - Harry
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
                 
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[kelso1600_kelso1600]

Have you ever been in Atlantic City during the past year?

At which casino did you have the most coin-in for either January - June or July - December. Your dominant casino can change mid-year based upon your play.

If you have never been in one of the Harrahs properties in Atlantic City, then this might be something new.

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: haaljo@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 23:32:47 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: lurker: research and in depth questions about seven star perks - loooong

Last year decided to do 7* and gambled mostly in Laughlin (until they decimated the joint); then finished up mostly at NOLA and Reno/Tahoe.
Got assigned to Atlantic City and nothing "could be done about it" but didn't try very hard as 7* isn't worth it nowadays.

We are in Boston but have not gone much to AC preferring greener pastures. Have times changed. My theory is AC has 7* gamblers coming out of their ears.

>
>
> "Also think it's important that one keeps control as to your 7* casino designation. You could be doing most of your play in NOLA and be assigned to AC Harrahs because of your zip code. "
>
> I have never known Harrahs to designate dominant casino by zip code. It has always been based on either majority of play or majority of visits.
>
> Have you experienced a change from this?
>
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > From: haaljo@...
> > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:34:32 +0000
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: lurker: research and in depth questions about seven star perks - loooong
> >
> > "...sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more..."
> >
> > Wealth of information!
> > $20K could be ~97% machines with 1% cashback/comps/tourneys/gifts.
> > That's if you think your going to get $10K back.
> > If your gambling at 99% then, in the long run would be a wash if $10K received in "comps." Good luck with that.
> >
> > And the database shows 99.7% plus games in some of their joints.
> > But the times they are a'changing on the 7* gig from even just 2 years ago. And it's like a contagion now at palms, terribles, laughlin trop and conn. mohegan sun (personal favorites).
> >
> > Also think it's important that one keeps control as to your 7* casino designation. You could be doing most of your play in NOLA and be assigned to AC Harrahs because of your zip code. Think your more "appreciated" by certain Harrahs joints.
> >
> > How times have changed.
> >
> > sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more
> >
> >
> > >
> > > campus_chic13 wrote:
> > > > Hey guys!... You've got me spending/losing the same amount each
> > > > trip, but now I'm staying in really nice rooms, eating in nicer
> > > > places, getting comped spa treatments I never would have spent
> > > > money on, and I don't run out of money to gamble on anymore!
> > > >
> > > > ... I think I'd like to make 7* to impress them =P Fortunately for
> > > > me, I am mostly of sound mind, and won't do if it involves losing a
> > > > lot more than I get. I'm trying to assign dollar values to the
> > > > perks, both guaranteed and possible.
> > > >
> > > > ... Sorry this is so long, but we spend probably 10k a year on
> > > > travel, and I'd be willing to lose most of that at VP, if the
> > > > benefits were things we'd enjoy spending travel money on anyway.
> > > >
> > > > I have a feeling this board is full of people like us - can you
> > > > guys shed any light on this? Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Karen
> > >
> > > Karen, 7* benefits are very generous. However, I don't know anyone who would assign anywhere near full economic value to the perks. Further, because of the inherent volatility of casino play and consequent downside risk, I also don't know anyone who would play the bulk of required 7* qualifying play solely for the sake of the benefits.
> > >
> > > In fact, I think it's safe to say that most who play to 7* (and above) would be motivated to put in most (or all) of that play through incentives unrelated to 7* benefits. In other words, I'm suggesting that most 7* players see the perks as icing on the cake, and not the cake itself.
> > >
> > > ------
> > >
> > > What I'm driving at here is a suggestion that you not consider going for 7* primarily motivated by the benefits. (Rob Singer has replied as much, much more concisely!)
> > >
> > > Instead, if, in a given year you find that standard play incentives seem to have you on track for at least 70% of the required 8.25k tier credits/mo on a pro rata basis (say 24K cr as of May 1, or 35K cr as July 1 in a given year), then you might well consider pushing your play through the balance of the year with an eye to earning 7* and the related incremental benefits.
> > >
> > > Bear in mind, that a very sizable number of vp players who opt to regularly earn 7* year after year will see occasionally see net losses (after factoring all cash benefits) of $20K or more.
> > >
> > > If you're a smart player, you should, of course, fare better in most years. But others will tell you that when ill-luck strikes, there's little that can be done about it, and it's not unusual that it does so with a vengeance. If your motivation for play has been the limited number of 7* benefits, it's likely you'll come away from such an experience with a severe case of "gambler's remorse", rather than being in the position to shake it off and look for better play down the road.
> > >
> > > Most importantly, you can look to your own play experience to advise you whether you're prepared to take on the risks of 7* qualification play.
> > >
> > > I infer from your post that your current play habits fall considerably short of such a qualification (apologies if I'm mistaken). I don't advise a sharp ramp up in either play denomination or frequency to make the leap. Instead, keep a strong record of your session by session play results through the balance of this year and extrapolate to get a good gut feel for your risks from more active play first.
> > >
> > > ------
> > >
> > > A couple of comments re specifics from your post details:
> > >
> > > Re 7* annual trip expense allowance: The $1200 is a max allowance for airfare. If not used for air, it generally is left on the table (can't be used for other expenses). btw, just to be clear, the annual trip is restricted to Caesars casino destination cities.
> > >
> > > Re 7* annual cruise: This is an separate benefit from the annual trip. Generally speaking, I know of no one penalized for failure to give play while taking the cruise.
> > >
> > > Re bf's mother's 7* qualification: As a slot player, where there's little opportunity to reduce expected loss via skill or machine selection, earning 7* typically involves an annual net loss in excess of $20K (the math works out to something like $30K+, assuming 30% of expected losses are offset with casino cash benefits).
> > >
> > > It may be that she's simply a hard core player, who get sufficient pleasure from the play itself, on top of tier benefits, to absorb such a loss. However, it may also be the case that for one or two years she's enjoyed the upside of volatility and has managed to garner qualification with a much softer loss -- and may shy away from heavy play down the road when luck inevitably turns sour.
> > >
> > > Re comps and ADT: Comps largely go hand in hand with ADT.
> > >
> > > In some venues, some attractive ER video poker plays are rated reasonably strong, so that players can see very desirable benefits. But it's becoming more and more the case at Caesars casinos that if you restrict play to the best machines, you'll see only nominal perks. (But 7* tier benefits are secured in almost all cases strictly through meeting the tier credit play threshold, irrespective of actual ADT)
> > >
> > > Whatever the case, it's to your advantage to concentrate play to maximize ADT. Play strongly when you chose to play; try to show no casino presence (card activity) on the days you don't play.
> > >
> > > Re cruise offers: We've taken 2 NCL cruises via the 7* cruise benefit; taken 4 others earned through casino offers unrelated to 7* status. It's a fantastic benefit, for a regular cruise passenger such as yourself, and not to be passed up!
> > >
> > > ------
> > >
> > > Hope I didn't get too carried away in reply, Karen, and trust there's some insight to be gleaned for you. Best of luck!
> > >
> > > - Harry
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@> wrote:

[haaljo_haaljo]

Yes, that might have been what happened.
90% to 7* mid-year w/o any in AC.
Harrah's trips are through their New England office (in CT).

Did last 10% at BallysAC. Few weeks later got 7* card and offers from NOLA, Reno, Tahoe and Vegas go way down.

It's o.k. as not interested in 7* for 2012 but that might have been what happened. OTOH managment resistance to changing home casinos is one reason for giving up the play.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:

Have you ever been in Atlantic City during the past year?

At which casino did you have the most coin-in for either January - June or July - December. Your dominant casino can change mid-year based upon your play.

If you have never been in one of the Harrahs properties in Atlantic City, then this might be something new.

[Harry_Porter]

Dave wrote:

Yes, that might have been what happened.
90% to 7* mid-year w/o any in AC.
Harrah's trips are through their New England office (in CT).

Did last 10% at BallysAC. Few weeks later got 7* card and offers
from NOLA, Reno, Tahoe and Vegas go way down.

It's o.k. as not interested in 7* for 2012 but that might have been
what happened. OTOH managment resistance to changing home casinos
is one reason for giving up the play.

A few observations:

"Home Casino" isn't a 7* concept -- it applies to all players. Your reassignment, after regular BAC play, would have likely happened even without passing 7* qualification threshold.

"Home Casino" designation impacts very few offers ... only those that are tied to your home casino (in AC, for example, this includes the annual Christmas party assignment).

It's very unlikely that home casino reassignment to BAC reduced all other regional offers across the board. (There would be a smattering of offers designated specifically for players assigned to your former home casino property for which you would no longer qualify ... but, again, those are few and far between.)

Not sure what you're referring to in suggesting "management resistance" to changing home casinos. There are guidelines under which it can be done -- I forget specifics, but it's something like establishing a casino as your dominant property over the last 6 trips (based upon days at each property during that time). Best bet is to inquire with your host at the desired property how a change can be effected.

- H.

[campus_chic13]

Wow, I can't believe the wealth of information I just got - especially that first missive from you, vip_wiz...

Lets see: first, I should say not to worry about inferring that I haven't been a high stakes player. It's totally fair - I typically used to run 30-40k through per trip, limited more by time and my fear of the volatility of $1 vp.

Then I found multiplay machines, and while I'm back to where my bankroll is a factor again, the swings aren't as big as they would be at dollars - but my coin in and number of hands played went up almost an order of magnitude.

That makes it where my normal 150k or so yearly coin in (and yes, periodic associated losses) could, if I concentrated on certain machines, hit 7* levels. Obviously, this requires Harrah's to have these machines at casinos I can drive to, but it's currently doable.

What I'm really looking to do is put some monstrous level of play through my casinos here at home, and use the earned comps there (plus 7* goodies) on low-play trips to AC or Vegas. The cruises sound like one heck of a perk, as well!

Think I'll pick a casino next week and see what kind of coin in (and comps) I can generate in a long weekend. With proper flexibility to catch multipliers days, I think I could stack up a good pile of comp dollars. Between those, the guaranteed 7* goodies, and free rooms that *don't* come out of my earned comps, I think I'd be able to 'pay for' everything but travel expenses on several trips through bankroll losses.

Of course, I'm assuming my math re: multiplay bankroll requirements is sound. I've only backed it up by two trips to South Point, so I don't have a lot of real-life data yet.

Another note about the cruises: I've read all over the web that people get free cruises for booking a trip to, say, Tunica - but I just can't imagine them continuing to send these offers if I never gamble on the ship. Does anyone know who these offers are funded by? CAS/NCL or Harrah's? I'm sort of suspecting that I'll be offered these in the beginning, but they'll peter out when they realize I don't gamble onboard. Still, even one 'free' cruise a year is awesome.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

Dave wrote:
> Yes, that might have been what happened.
> 90% to 7* mid-year w/o any in AC.
> Harrah's trips are through their New England office (in CT).
>
> Did last 10% at BallysAC. Few weeks later got 7* card and offers
> from NOLA, Reno, Tahoe and Vegas go way down.
>
> It's o.k. as not interested in 7* for 2012 but that might have been
> what happened. OTOH managment resistance to changing home casinos
> is one reason for giving up the play.

A few observations:

"Home Casino" isn't a 7* concept -- it applies to all players. Your reassignment, after regular BAC play, would have likely happened even without passing 7* qualification threshold.

"Home Casino" designation impacts very few offers ... only those that are tied to your home casino (in AC, for example, this includes the annual Christmas party assignment).

It's very unlikely that home casino reassignment to BAC reduced all other regional offers across the board. (There would be a smattering of offers designated specifically for players assigned to your former home casino property for which you would no longer qualify ... but, again, those are few and far between.)

Not sure what you're referring to in suggesting "management resistance" to changing home casinos. There are guidelines under which it can be done -- I forget specifics, but it's something like establishing a casino as your dominant property over the last 6 trips (based upon days at each property during that time). Best bet is to inquire with your host at the desired property how a change can be effected.

- H.

[ukstages]

that's what i used to think.

that it was based on your coin-in... that the property at which you put through the most action became your dominant property.

turns out that's not true.

it's apparently based on the number of trips to a particular property, not your action.

i know this from first-hand experience and from host confirmation. i was protecting my ADT at my dominant property while using lounge privileges, coupons and offers at another property... i visited the property a lot, but didn't give them much play, except for running through the $5 or $10 NNRR vouchers they would send me.

nevertheless, i was recoded to that property; it's now my official "dominant" property.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:

At which casino did you have the most coin-in for either January - June or July - December. Your dominant casino can change mid-year based upon your play.

[kelso1600_kelso1600]

You are correct but you ruined your company-wide ADT by doing that. Some offers are based only on company wide ADT or take company-wide ADT into consideration.

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: takeme2london@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 00:19:17 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: lurker: research and in depth questions about seven star perks - loooong

that's what i used to think.

that it was based on your coin-in... that the property at which you put through the most action became your dominant property.

turns out that's not true.

it's apparently based on the number of trips to a particular property, not your action.

i know this from first-hand experience and from host confirmation. i was protecting my ADT at my dominant property while using lounge privileges, coupons and offers at another property... i visited the property a lot, but didn't give them much play, except for running through the $5 or $10 NNRR vouchers they would send me.

nevertheless, i was recoded to that property; it's now my official "dominant" property.

>
> At which casino did you have the most coin-in for either January - June or July - December. Your dominant casino can change mid-year based upon your play.
>

------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:

[Harry_Porter]

campus_chic13 wrote:

Wow, I can't believe the wealth of information I just got -
especially that first missive from you, vp_wiz...

Thanks. Others were equally generous when I was an "up and coming" player. Just passing on the deed.

Then I found multiplay machines, and while I'm back to where my
bankroll is a factor again, the swings aren't as big as they would
be at dollars - but my coin in and number of hands played went up
almost an order of magnitude.

There is indeed an almost "magic" about multiline machines ... permitting you record trip ratings that would otherwise white-knuckle you as a single line player (given relative inherent risk).

The struggle, of course, is finding multiline machines with strong paytables …

What I'm really looking to do is put some monstrous level of play
through my casinos here at home, and use the earned comps there
(plus 7* goodies) on low-play trips to AC or Vegas. The cruises
sound like one heck of a perk, as well!

Of course, I'm assuming my math re: multiplay bankroll requirements
is sound. I've only backed it up by two trips to South Point, so I
don't have a lot of real-life data yet.

Another note about the cruises: I've read all over the web that
people get free cruises for booking a trip to, say, Tunica - but I
just can't imagine them continuing to send these offers if I never
gamble on the ship. Does anyone know who these offers are funded
by? CAS/NCL or Harrah's? I'm sort of suspecting that I'll be
offered these in the beginning, but they'll peter out when they
realize I don't gamble onboard. Still, even one 'free' cruise a
year is awesome.

I have confidence that experience will give you a strong gut feel on true multiline bankroll requirement in very short order.

Your plan of earning 7* at your home casinos as an avenue to some nice low-play LV or AC freebies is sound. Since Harrah's engaged in wide-scale paytable cutbacks in LV, we've indulged in 7* trips to LV with limited play with little overall consequence. (Only conseqence is that I now receive LV offers that I wouldn't walk across the street for, much less fly cross-country.)

(FWIW, AC is still home to some strong paytables at reasonable denominations and there's every reason to indulge a play appetite ... I just wouldn't recommend trying to impress anyone with play volume in AC under current circumstances).

On the cruise front, I'm as mystified as you. Still, we've sailed NCL 6 times now under various casino offers, giving nominal or nil play each time, with no adverse consequence.

I'm sure this will change down the road. But for now, NCL seems content with a business model of "board them, and they will play". From my casual observation, it's a pretty reliable predictor in the majority of cases.

As far as funding, it's my guess (and that's all) that the awarding casino pays a nominal charge per offer made to play-qualified player (say something like $300). NCL relies upon gaming revenue to do the rest.

- Harry

[Steve_Del_Nero]

Most, if not all, of the machines at Addison's Lounge were to be shut down at 11:30 p.m. tonight for "maintenance." I will try to get there tomorrow and see if any of the paytables have changed (unless someone gets there earlier and makes a report). Who knows -- supposedly Michael Gaughan, Jr. is working for them now -- maybe the paytables will be improved (yeah, sure!!)
-- Steve in LV

[Harry_Porter]

Steven Del Nero wrote:

Most, if not all, of the machines at Addison's Lounge were to be shut
down at 11:30 p.m. tonight for "maintenance."

At least they didn't refer to "upgrades" ... that's when you know for sure bad new is brewing ...

[cal_withers]

I just received a survey from Terrible's and it was from no other than Michael Gaughan, Jr.
Is this the son or farther? Looks like Gaughan's company is expanding to take over other casino gaming operations. We like South Point and as far as I know, payables have not changed there so maybe it will rub off and apply them at other casino's. Have I got this right?

Cal Withers

···

--- On Wed, 8/24/11, Steven Del Nero <artcontrol@cox.net> wrote:

From: Steven Del Nero <artcontrol@cox.net>
Subject: [vpFREE] Rampart Casino alert
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 12:55 AM

Most, if not all, of the machines at Addison's Lounge were to be shut down
at 11:30 p.m. tonight for "maintenance." I will try to get there tomorrow
and see if any of the paytables have changed (unless someone gets there
earlier and makes a report). Who knows -- supposedly Michael Gaughan, Jr.
is working for them now -- maybe the paytables will be improved (yeah,
sure!!)
-- Steve in LV

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