What would one categorize the loss of say a $575 ticket in a machine
at a casino due to a momentary lapse of judgement? Is it a gambling
loss or would the person have to file the IRS form 4684?
Loss of ticket in machine
You cannot file a 4684 for money that is misplaced or lost.
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
dipy911
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 6:35 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Loss of ticket in machine
What would one categorize the loss of say a $575 ticket in a machine
at a casino due to a momentary lapse of judgement? Is it a gambling
loss or would the person have to file the IRS form 4684?
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dipy911 wrote:
What would one categorize the loss of say a $575 ticket in a machine
at a casino due to a momentary lapse of judgement? Is it a gambling
loss or would the person have to file the IRS form 4684?
Speaking from an absolute interpretation of IRS guidance, probably
neither (although specifics of your loss might yield an alternate answer).
If the loss wasn't a consequence of a wager it's not regarded as a
gambling loss.
Form 4684 (Losses from casualty or theft) provides a deduction for an
illegal removal of property. If the property was abandoned (even
momentarily), it doesn't qualify. You can clarify the situation by
assessing whether security would have been willing to file a theft
report if you had brought it to their attention.
Alternate categorization of the loss as a casualty also likely doesn't
fly. A casualty is defined as the consequence a sudden, unusual
event. Consequently, for example, accidental breakage can't be
claimed as a casualty.
If the loss is eligible for a 4684 deduction, remember that only the
amount in excess of 10% of your AGI (after a reduction of $100) may be
deducted for a loss of personal property.
For full 4684 details: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p547.pdf
- Harry
At about 12:20 AM, I was down about $400 playing mostly All-American.
I hit a straight flush for $250. I changed to Let it Ride for a few
hands and hit 4 sevens for 750 quarters (Yes, I know the payout
percentage, thank you). I was feeling really good. I changed to
Double Bonus (9/6/5 400-straight flush 1000 4 aces) to get the credits
up/down to an even 100. I had left both the straight flush and the 4
sevens on the screen in their respective games.
It was at 2300 quarters when I stopped for the night. I changed the
machine back to All American so everyone could see the ace low
straight flush. Normally, I cash out and pull my card and wrap the
ticket around my card. This time, I just pull my card and place it
with my hotel key card. I proceed to leave machine to go to my car to
get my overnight bag. Halfway there, I realize I hadn't cashed out
and proceeded to run back to my machine. About 2-3 minutes was all it
took. The guy sitting in the bank diagonal 2-3 feet away didn't see
anything. The machine was still on All American, only now it also
showed the 2300 credits as a cash out. I call an attendant and they
call security. They did file theft charges and if the guy ever comes
back and they catch him charges will be filed. The type of person
that does this probably won't have the money anymore. Security
verified a person cashed out and immediately went and cashed out and
left the building, all in 3 minutes. Don't people know that they
should put the ticket in a couple of other machines first to confuse
security? The action of immediately leaving the building implies that
they know it was illegal.
The security at Prairie Band was very professional. First they made
sure I didn't misplace the ticket. Then they took my personal
information. Then they went and reviewed the cameras and came back
about an hour later and explained what they saw. They told me that
people had lost more than that (like that would make me better?) and
that any casino person would be happy to watch my machine. I
explained I knew that and that I just had a lapse in brain at 12:20 AM.
The next day was in my favor and I hit 2 royals and 1 straight flush
and more than my fair share of 4-of-a-kinds in All American. I ended
up $2000, including the $575 loss, for the weekend. Or, I was up
$2575 and had a theft of $575. Stupid lesson is always push the
cashout button and double-check that credits = 0. I never leave money
in the machine even when going to the bathroom or getting a drink,
unless I have an attendant watching the machine.
I sympathize, and I believe I understand how it happened. By changing
back to All American, you interrupted your usual subconscious pattern of
cashing out. It's a tough lesson to learn, but you can take consolation
from the likelihood that only fools or drunks would make this mistake
twice.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dipy911" <dwoods49090@...> wrote:
It was at 2300 quarters when I stopped for the night. I changed the
machine back to All American so everyone could see the ace low
straight flush. Normally, I cash out and pull my card and wrap the
ticket around my card. This time, I just pull my card and place it
with my hotel key card.
Are you looking for a legally precise answer, or a practical answer?
As a practical answer, I would guess 99%+ people would show this as a
gambling loss.
EE
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dipy911" <dwoods49090@...> wrote:
What would one categorize the loss of say a $575 ticket in a machine
at a casino due to a momentary lapse of judgement? Is it a gambling
loss or would the person have to file the IRS form 4684?