vpFREE2 Forums

Less Than Five Coins Question.

#1

Okay, I have a good example of when you might pass on the Royal.
Suppose a casino has offered you a couple of hundred in freeplay that
you can use on an evening. Suppose you want as much money as you can
get out of that freeplay.

OK, although I think you should be considering your video poker play
as one long, continuing game.

Let's be more specific, you take one of those offers TI is making.
What do you do? This is a very definite problem with an optimum
solution.

Agreed.

I believe the solution is to go to the smallest denomination in the
casino that has the best game offered and play it a coin at a time.

I know that the solution is to play maximum coins (unless a smaller #
triggers the royal flush bonus) in the best game offered.

That way at the end of the freeplay, you will have most of the $200,
and perhaps a little more.

How do you arrive at this conclusion?

Say the denomination you choose is nickels. Then $200 will give you
4,000 credits. If you play full coin on a nickel machine, you have 800
games. Your odds of hitting a Royal are pretty low,

Your odds of hitting a royal are always pretty low, but it seems to
happen when you least expect it, and it's essential to get full value
from a royal when it occurs.

The math says that the EV of 800 hands at a quarter per hand times
the max coin ER, is greater than 4000 hands at a nickel a hand times
the one coin ER.

and the variance maybe will make you end up with a
smaller fraction of the freeplay if you play with five
coins as compared with one coin.

And the variance maybe will make you end up with a larger fraction
of the freeplay if you play with five coins as compared with one coin.

Variance can work either way, and you can just as easily end up with
more, plus you have the royal kicker if you play maximum coins.

A justification for varying the number of coins? Well, suppose midway
you have hit a straight flush, some quads, and you already have most
of your $200 freeplay in credits, then you feel like splurging, and
you play more than one coin.

Whatever floats your boat. You've already given up the royal flush ER.

Doesn't the above make sense?

No.

Sure, during the process you started giving up the idea
of hitting a fat five coin Royal, but your goal was to
get the most money out of the limited freeplay. If you
achieve that goal, then you have fun.

You haven't shown that giving up the idea of hitting the
royal is the best way of achieving your goal, but I agree
that having fun is fun.

···

mubowor wrote on vpFREE:

#2

I thought I explained it clearly, but apparently I did not. You
insiste on the Royal. Let me repeat myself with other words since I
don't have a different argument than the above.

You have freeplay, that is not money. You are broke, maybe have only
a few dollars. You want most of the money you can get out of the
freeplay.

Let us take an extreme case. Would you play that $200 freeplay on a
$40 machiine full coin? Your odds to get a Royal on that single play
are the same. It can happen. But you have better of 50% chance of
getting nothing. Just look at any game's statistics, FPDW or JB, or
anything, over 50% of the time you get nothing. Sure, if you get a
Royal on that single play, it's a huge Royal, but your chances are
less than half to get it. Remember your goal? To get the most money
in cash out of your freeplay.

The prescription then is to assume the low probability Royal won't
come out, that most of the hands with high probability will come out
if you play many games, and the way to play many games is to play a
coin at a time. You will more easily be nearer to obtain in fact the
98% payback with no Royal if you play 4,000 games than if you play
800 games. Long term means playing a lot, and even if 4000 games is
not long term, it is closer to it than 800 games.

I grant you a big fat Royal is the most fun of all. But if you are
broke and want $180, blowing that freeplay is not fun at all.

I don't understand why the above does not make sense to you.

"Ed"

> Okay, I have a good example of when you might pass on the Royal.
> Suppose a casino has offered you a couple of hundred in freeplay

that

> you can use on an evening. Suppose you want as much money as you

can

> get out of that freeplay.

OK, although I think you should be considering your video poker

play

as one long, continuing game.

> Let's be more specific, you take one of those offers TI is

making.

> What do you do? This is a very definite problem with an optimum
> solution.

Agreed.

> I believe the solution is to go to the smallest denomination in

the

> casino that has the best game offered and play it a coin at a

time.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Roland Langley <roland0684@y...> wrote:

mubowor wrote on vpFREE:

I know that the solution is to play maximum coins (unless a smaller

#

triggers the royal flush bonus) in the best game offered.

> That way at the end of the freeplay, you will have most of the

$200,

> and perhaps a little more.

How do you arrive at this conclusion?

> Say the denomination you choose is nickels. Then $200 will give

you

> 4,000 credits. If you play full coin on a nickel machine, you

have 800

> games. Your odds of hitting a Royal are pretty low,

Your odds of hitting a royal are always pretty low, but it seems to
happen when you least expect it, and it's essential to get full

value

from a royal when it occurs.

The math says that the EV of 800 hands at a quarter per hand times
the max coin ER, is greater than 4000 hands at a nickel a hand

times

the one coin ER.

> and the variance maybe will make you end up with a
> smaller fraction of the freeplay if you play with five
> coins as compared with one coin.

And the variance maybe will make you end up with a larger fraction
of the freeplay if you play with five coins as compared with one

coin.

Variance can work either way, and you can just as easily end up

with

more, plus you have the royal kicker if you play maximum coins.

> A justification for varying the number of coins? Well, suppose

midway

> you have hit a straight flush, some quads, and you already have

most

> of your $200 freeplay in credits, then you feel like splurging,

and

> you play more than one coin.

Whatever floats your boat. You've already given up the royal flush

ER.

> Doesn't the above make sense?

No.

> Sure, during the process you started giving up the idea
> of hitting a fat five coin Royal, but your goal was to
> get the most money out of the limited freeplay. If you
> achieve that goal, then you have fun.

You haven't shown that giving up the idea of hitting the
royal is the best way of achieving your goal, but I agree
that having fun is fun.