vpFREE2 Forums

Less Than Five Coins Question.

#1

In a message dated 7/19/03 12:18:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
erchalb@cantv.net writes:

<< Well, I'm glad to see some replies.

I guess I should have said "stretching your session's bankroll". If
you take $100 to a casino, and you want entertainment by playing a
long time, then the less coins you put, the more your money lasts. In
the long run the Royals help, but it is very unlikely you will get
one of those in a session. Going down on denomination also stretches
your bankroll, but there is a limit, and that is the cents machines.
Now if you want to be even more conservative, you can play these last
machines with one coin, one penny. That will keep you playing for
plenty of hours on a $100. >>

But you're playing without the possibility of a jackpot. Doesn't that
diminish the fun any?

As for varying the number of coins, well, I can think of a poor man's

Multi-Strike feel on a one line machine. Play one coin. If you are
winning, then go up to two, if you keep winning to three coins, and
so forth. If you lose, go back to one coin. It does give you a little
bit of the feel of Multi-Strike. Even some of the thrills. It is very
improbable you will reach five coins and hit a Royal, but it can
happen. Given enough time it will happen. >>

Meanwhile, you're much more likely to hit a Royal without full coin in and
take a huge loss.(That's got to be depressing.) In Multi-Strike, by contrast,
you'll get the full amount for a Royal on the first line.

So there it is. I'm not sayin playing with less than five coins is

any sort of panacea, but I can see the psychology on those who do
practice this sort of style. I was just asking for other people's
thoughts on the matter. I know most people will say, "don't do it,
it's horrible", and I tend to agree, but maybe some of the ones that
play with less than five coins have some other ideas none of us have
heard about? Just a thought.
  >>

This is kind of interesting. I've often seen people play seemingly bizarre
numbers of coins and have always wanted to ask them why. This does give some
insight into what they might be thinking. It still seems perverse to me, and not
just economically. What fun is it playing if you know you can't hit the big
one?

#2

Okay, I have a good example of when you might pass on the Royal.
Suppose a casino has offered you a couple of hundred in freeplay that
you can use on an evening. Suppose you want as much money as you can
get out of that freeplay. Let's be more specific, you take one of
those offers TI is making. What do you do? This is a very definite
problem with an optimum solution.

I believe the solution is to go to the smallest denomination in the
casino that has the best game offered and play it a coin at a time.
That way at the end of the freeplay, you will have most of the $200,
and perhaps a little more.

Say the denomination you choose is nickels. Then $200 will give you
4,000 credits. If you play full coin on a nickel machine, you have
800 games. Your odds of hitting a Royal are pretty low, and the
variance maybe will make you end up with a smaller fraction of the
freeplay if you play with five coins as compared with one coin.

A justification for varying the number of coins? Well, suppose midway
you have hit a straight flush, some quads, and you already have most
of your $200 freeplay in credits, then you feel like splurging, and
you play more than one coin.

Doesn't the above make sense? Sure, during the process you started
giving up the idea of hitting a fat five coin Royal, but your goal
was to get the most money out of the limited freeplay. If you achieve
that goal, then you have fun.

"Ed"

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, darvell349@a... wrote:

What fun is it playing if you know you can't hit the big
one?

#3

I don't agree with your conclusion. The E.V. of a machine does not depend on the number of hands you play. Playing 1 coin at a time will guarantee that you will play longer, but it will not guarantee that you will end up with more.
In both cases you will be turning around the exact same amount of money. In the full coin example you will have an E.V. that is about 1.5% higher than in the short coin version, that comes up to a difference in E.V. for your $200 of $3 . Not a large amount , I can see.
The thing is you are just as likely to get the good hand early as late or not at all .
Whenever I have had free play I have played it off 5 quarters at a time, and on 9/6 jb machines I have usually finished around even, but I have had the chance to make a big score. The one coin approach takes away the chance with very little in return.

It is your money and you are naturally entitled to do with it as you wish.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: mubowor
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:47 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Less Than Five Coins Question.

  Okay, I have a good example of when you might pass on the Royal.
  Suppose a casino has offered you a couple of hundred in freeplay that
  you can use on an evening. Suppose you want as much money as you can
  get out of that freeplay. Let's be more specific, you take one of
  those offers TI is making. What do you do? This is a very definite
  problem with an optimum solution.

  I believe the solution is to go to the smallest denomination in the
  casino that has the best game offered and play it a coin at a time.
  That way at the end of the freeplay, you will have most of the $200,
  and perhaps a little more.

  Say the denomination you choose is nickels. Then $200 will give you
  4,000 credits. If you play full coin on a nickel machine, you have
  800 games. Your odds of hitting a Royal are pretty low, and the
  variance maybe will make you end up with a smaller fraction of the
  freeplay if you play with five coins as compared with one coin.

  A justification for varying the number of coins? Well, suppose midway
  you have hit a straight flush, some quads, and you already have most
  of your $200 freeplay in credits, then you feel like splurging, and
  you play more than one coin.

  Doesn't the above make sense? Sure, during the process you started
  giving up the idea of hitting a fat five coin Royal, but your goal
  was to get the most money out of the limited freeplay. If you achieve
  that goal, then you have fun.

  "Ed"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

I don't agree with your conclusion. The E.V. of a machine does not

depend on the number of hands you play. Playing 1 coin at a time will
guarantee that you will play longer, but it will not guarantee that
you will end up with more.

In both cases you will be turning around the exact same amount of

money. In the full coin example you will have an E.V. that is about
1.5% higher than in the short coin version, that comes up to a
difference in E.V. for your $200 of $3 . Not a large amount , I can
see.

The thing is you are just as likely to get the good hand early as

late or not at all .

Whenever I have had free play I have played it off 5 quarters at a

time, and on 9/6 jb machines I have usually finished around even, but
I have had the chance to make a big score. The one coin approach
takes away the chance with very little in return.

It is your money and you are naturally entitled to do with it as

you wish.

Regards
A.P.

I explained this on my reply to Langley. Sure the EV is the same, but
remember the EV is long term, full coin. If you play only once, your
EV is still whatever it is for the machine, but the odds of getting
nothing are more than half. That is, your probability of getting
nothing is better than 50% for all machines I know. Doesn't it make
sense to play longer so that you come closer to obtaining that good
EV?

"Ed"

  From: mubowor
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:47 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Less Than Five Coins Question.

  Okay, I have a good example of when you might pass on the Royal.
  Suppose a casino has offered you a couple of hundred in freeplay

that

  you can use on an evening. Suppose you want as much money as you

can

  get out of that freeplay. Let's be more specific, you take one of
  those offers TI is making. What do you do? This is a very

definite

  problem with an optimum solution.

  I believe the solution is to go to the smallest denomination in

the

  casino that has the best game offered and play it a coin at a

time.

  That way at the end of the freeplay, you will have most of the

$200,

  and perhaps a little more.

  Say the denomination you choose is nickels. Then $200 will give

you

  4,000 credits. If you play full coin on a nickel machine, you

have

  800 games. Your odds of hitting a Royal are pretty low, and the
  variance maybe will make you end up with a smaller fraction of

the

  freeplay if you play with five coins as compared with one coin.

  A justification for varying the number of coins? Well, suppose

midway

  you have hit a straight flush, some quads, and you already have

most

  of your $200 freeplay in credits, then you feel like splurging,

and

  you play more than one coin.

  Doesn't the above make sense? Sure, during the process you

started

  giving up the idea of hitting a fat five coin Royal, but your

goal

  was to get the most money out of the limited freeplay. If you

achieve

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Pearson" <a-p@s...> wrote:

  ----- Original Message -----
  that goal, then you have fun.

  "Ed"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

Okay, I have a good example of when you might pass on the Royal.

No such thing

Suppose a casino has offered you a couple of hundred in freeplay

that

you can use on an evening. Suppose you want as much money as you

can

get out of that freeplay. Let's be more specific, you take one of
those offers TI is making. What do you do? This is a very definite
problem with an optimum solution.

I believe the solution is to go to the smallest denomination in the
casino that has the best game offered and play it a coin at a time.
That way at the end of the freeplay, you will have most of the

$200,

and perhaps a little more.

Bad Math, you increase the possiblity of losses and decrease the win

possiblity

Say the denomination you choose is nickels. Then $200 will give you
4,000 credits. If you play full coin on a nickel machine, you have
800 games. Your odds of hitting a Royal are pretty low, and the
variance maybe will make you end up with a smaller fraction of the
freeplay if you play with five coins as compared with one coin.

A justification for varying the number of coins? Well, suppose

midway

you have hit a straight flush, some quads, and you already have

most

of your $200 freeplay in credits, then you feel like splurging, and
you play more than one coin.

Splurging?? since when is playin smarter & better splurging??

Doesn't the above make sense? NO!!

Sure, during the process you started

giving up the idea of hitting a fat five coin Royal, but your goal
was to get the most money out of the limited freeplay. If you

achieve

that goal, then you have fun.

"Ed"
Playing VP at the close to perfect you can & with the highest

paybck possible is the goal, no way that playin less than that is fun,
You underestimate how fast negative payback can eat in your bankroll
at ANY level,
Way too many ifs & buts & what ifs in your scenario,
sounds a little like the person who bets black & red at the same time
thinkin only the green will beat you so how can you lose??(roullette)
This an old topic,please check arcives for info.
This group was started by people who belive in playin VP at there
best at at the best paybacks at every chance, this why you are gettin
the feedback you are receiving, If fun is your only reason to play
may i suggest little green men. very funny machine,
If you want to play a game where you can beat the house and get
comped to do it, then Full Pay VP is your best choice, but play it
correct and at the maximum advantage ALWAYS,
M J Perry
P S , nothin above is to be considerd a knock on Mr Singer, if nothin
else his idea that you dont have to be a loser in the casino is very
powerfull, surprised how many people play to lose and think that is
the only way.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mubowor" <erchalb@c...> wrote: