IMHO, you don't actually "learn" a VP strategy by playing a bunch of
hands and waiting for the computer to make a little honking noise when
you screw one up. Most software doesn't tell you WHY a given choice is
wrong, just that it IS. The best ones will suggest the proper hold,
but again, without saying why that hold is superior.
The best program for hand analysis--BY FAR--is Bob Dancer's. You can
get EV analyses for a player-inputted hand, and than change one card
at a time to get new EV charts. To me, seeing how the EV changes as
you do or don't hold, oh, for example, KJ suited in FPDW (keep
altering the hand to add or subtract penalty cards and watch the EV of
the various draws change) is extremely valuable. The cool thing is,
you see the EV not only for the best play, but also the second best,
third best, etc. plays. So you can analyse the cost of an error as well.
But no matter WHAT, you need to STUDY a strategy chart before you even
start practicing. What ranks higher on the chart, AJ unsuited or A
alone? Which has the higher EV, J1098 or 99? Etcetera. While not
necessarily imparting an UNDERSTANDING of the reasoning behind the
strategy, it will help impart a FEEL. Similarly to learning blackjack
from a strategy table, only certain parts of the table are truly
relevant (Always stand on Hard 19. Duh. Pat royal flush ranks first on
the VP table. Duh.).
I also think that the slow and tedious method of having to look up
every hand on a paper strategy table WHILE AT THE MACHINE is good for
learning: Double Bonus: You are dealt J87 of hearts, 9 of spades, 3 of
clubs; you need to look up: J only; 3-card inside straight flush, one
high card, two gaps; and four-card straight, inside, one high card. At
first, this might take a full minute or more. However, you get the
actual nuts and bolts of the strategy right there in front of you. I
should also add that mastery gained this way will stick; and you won't
have your PC with you when you go down to the Golden Skunk to actually
PLAY (but you CAN bring your strategy charts).
For what it's worth, I never learned DB until I force-fed myself the
strategy in this fashion.
Learning from software vs. the old fashioned way
I agree with you. I've noticed that people who have memorized a
hierarchy using the honkers programs tend to do poorly when they try
to change games or paytables, and are often reluctant to play another
game for the confusion it might introduce about the strategy they
have memorized on their favorite game. When you understand the why,
and especially if you bring strategies for all the games, you can
play every game in the casino with 99.9% accuracy.
The programs with the honkers are useful re-inforcement tools, and
also handy when you think you have the strategy down pat - test
yourself against a honkers program and you might find one or two
situations that you didn't think you needed to look up but that you
are playing wrong.
One additional feature I've found useful in understanding the 'why'
part is to have the EVs by cards-held broken down into constituent
parts by final hand. This is also helpful if you wind up with the a
strategy chart for the wrong paytable - you can use the by-hand
breakdown to determine quickly if the new paytable calls for any
strategy adjustments. I don't know which if any of the commercial
programs have this feature, but it is fairly easy to program yourself.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:
IMHO, you don't actually "learn" a VP strategy by playing a bunch of
hands and waiting for the computer to make a little honking noise
when
you screw one up. Most software doesn't tell you WHY a given choice
is
wrong, just that it IS. The best ones will suggest the proper hold,
but again, without saying why that hold is superior.
The best program for hand analysis--BY FAR--is Bob Dancer's. You can
get EV analyses for a player-inputted hand, and than change one
card
at a time to get new EV charts. To me, seeing how the EV changes as
you do or don't hold, oh, for example, KJ suited in FPDW (keep
altering the hand to add or subtract penalty cards and watch the EV
of
the various draws change) is extremely valuable. The cool thing is,
you see the EV not only for the best play, but also the second best,
third best, etc. plays. So you can analyse the cost of an error as
well.
But no matter WHAT, you need to STUDY a strategy chart before you
even
start practicing. What ranks higher on the chart, AJ unsuited or A
alone? Which has the higher EV, J1098 or 99? Etcetera. While not
necessarily imparting an UNDERSTANDING of the reasoning behind the
strategy, it will help impart a FEEL. Similarly to learning
blackjack
from a strategy table, only certain parts of the table are truly
relevant (Always stand on Hard 19. Duh. Pat royal flush ranks first
on
the VP table. Duh.).
I also think that the slow and tedious method of having to look up
every hand on a paper strategy table WHILE AT THE MACHINE is good
for
learning: Double Bonus: You are dealt J87 of hearts, 9 of spades, 3
of
clubs; you need to look up: J only; 3-card inside straight flush,
one
high card, two gaps; and four-card straight, inside, one high card.
At
first, this might take a full minute or more. However, you get the
actual nuts and bolts of the strategy right there in front of you. I
should also add that mastery gained this way will stick; and you
won't
have your PC with you when you go down to the Golden Skunk to
actually
ยทยทยท
PLAY (but you CAN bring your strategy charts).
For what it's worth, I never learned DB until I force-fed myself the
strategy in this fashion.
blaw57 wrote:
I agree with you. I've noticed that people who have memorized a
hierarchy using the honkers programs tend to do poorly when they try
to change games or paytables,
blaw ... I'm always intrigued to explore new vp software when it comes
to market.
I've performed an internet search for vp software under the keywords
"Trumpeter Software", "Geese 'R Us" and "Red Nosed Geezers, Inc.", but
have failed to come up with your referenced programs.
Can you help me out and point me in the right direction? (I figure
the sound effect when a strategy error is made has got to be worth the
price of the s/w alone 
- H.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:
I've performed an internet search for vp software under the keywords
"Trumpeter Software", "Geese 'R Us" and "Red Nosed Geezers, Inc.",
but
have failed to come up with your referenced programs.
- H.
LOL, but did you try "Canadian Geese Present Win-Poker-Or-Die!"
In my defense, let me point out that I was only following the
original poster's terminology in using the word "honk." And it was
WinPoker I had in mind when I made my comment.
IMHO, you don't actually "learn" a VP strategy by playing a bunch of
hands and waiting for the computer to make a little honking noise
when
you screw one up.
But while we're on the subject, I have in my mind the perfect
negative reinforcement, if we can get the programming right. It comes
from a personal experience. I do a fair amount of canoeing in remote
areas, and on one trip I saw a group of about 6-8 Canadian Geese who
seemed somewhat oblivious to their surroundings, so I thought it
would be cool to sneak up for a close look at them. I imagine they
saw me the whole time but they let me get right in the middle of them
before they reacted. And then all hell broke lose. With the loudest,
most annoying honks imaginable they took to the air and began
circling me, swooping and diving from different directions. I quickly
decided that getting that close of a look wasn't so cool and beat a
hasty retreat.
So, in my soon to be released version of CGPWPOD, any mistake over
the threshold level will result in a cacophony of honks from every
direction and swooping birds seemingly about to come out the screen
right at the player.