vpFREE2 Forums

Laundering XVP

#1

True story........

Many years ago, while I was in Vegas for a bowling tournament, we were at a
downtown casino where an old friend was a dice floorman. Some rough-looking
dude wearing a floor-length leather trenchcoat was playing blackjack by himself
at a roped off table, complete with a pair of security guards flanking him.
This dude was pulling wads of Benjamins out of the many pockets inside that
trenchcoat, as he needed them, in a seemingly never-ending supply. He'd play
$500 a hand. If he won, he got paid in chips, and let the money ride. If he
lost, he'd chuck another $500 on the spot and keep going. When he ran out of
cash, he'd reach into the coat and pull out another wad of bills. The resulting
(and growing) pile of chips was most impressive, and the house kept reloading
the dealer's tray as necessary. I pulled my friend aside and asked him what
was going on, and he told me that the dude was also a dealer - from L.A. - who
dealt in illicit substances. He also said that the same dude showed up every
two months or so and went through the same routine, with the same "hey buddy,
wanna buy a watch?" trenchcoat. I didn't stay around to see the end of the
episode, so I don't know how the dude managed to cash out all those chips into
freshly laundered money.

- Brian in MI

In a message dated 12/31/2005 4:38:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com writes:

They might if it's not traceable.

On a related note, one has to wonder how good the facial recognition
software has gotten (the answer is classified).

Also, it might be worthwhile to note that they are not just looking
for launderers ...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Technically, you could call this money laundering if indeed the cash
he produced was the proceeds of unlawful activity. But more likely,
it was just a drug dealer gambling. Most likely, he used the cash
instead of chips based or superstition or some such. This would not
be an efficient way to launder the proceeds of illegal activity.
The "vig" (commission) is way too high. He risks losing a
significant percent to the house and if you cash out a significant
amount of chips, he receives a W2G. He then and you owes 30%+ to
Uncle Sam. Drug dealers can launder their money all day long and
pay a "commission" of less than 7%. (good ones with lots of $$$ pay
only 4%) The money can not only be laundered for that low
commission, the cash will be picked up, deposited in a cover bank
account, wired around numerous times and then deposited in the bank
account of your choice anywhere in the world. The cash can also be
physically moved out the of the USA and laundered through fictitious
businesses for around 4%.

True story........

Many years ago, while I was in Vegas for a bowling tournament, we

were at a

downtown casino where an old friend was a dice floorman. Some

rough-looking

dude wearing a floor-length leather trenchcoat was playing

blackjack by himself

at a roped off table, complete with a pair of security guards

flanking him.

This dude was pulling wads of Benjamins out of the many pockets

inside that

trenchcoat, as he needed them, in a seemingly never-ending

supply. He'd play

$500 a hand. If he won, he got paid in chips, and let the money

ride. If he

lost, he'd chuck another $500 on the spot and keep going. When he

ran out of

cash, he'd reach into the coat and pull out another wad of bills.

The resulting

(and growing) pile of chips was most impressive, and the house

kept reloading

the dealer's tray as necessary. I pulled my friend aside and

asked him what

was going on, and he told me that the dude was also a dealer -

from L.A. - who

dealt in illicit substances. He also said that the same dude

showed up every

two months or so and went through the same routine, with the

same "hey buddy,

wanna buy a watch?" trenchcoat. I didn't stay around to see the

end of the

episode, so I don't know how the dude managed to cash out all

those chips into

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Marksalot300@a... wrote:

freshly laundered money.

#3

<<The "vig" (commission) is way too high. He risks losing a significant
percent to the house and if you cash out a significant amount of chips, he
receives a W2G. He then and you owes 30%+ to Uncle Sam. Drug dealers can
launder their money all day long and pay a "commission" of less than 7%.>>

House edge on 21 with basic strategy is well under 1%.

There are no W2-Gs for table games no matter how much you win.

Cogno

#4

I never heard of a vig in black jack but i do believe u can get a w2g from table games 1500 and above u believe

Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote: <<The "vig" (commission) is way too high. He risks losing a significant
percent to the house and if you cash out a significant amount of chips, he
receives a W2G. He then and you owes 30%+ to Uncle Sam. Drug dealers can
launder their money all day long and pay a "commission" of less than 7%.>>

House edge on 21 with basic strategy is well under 1%.

There are no W2-Gs for table games no matter how much you win.

Cogno

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

You may be correct about the W2G but he will have a CTR (Currency
Transaction Report) filed on him if he cashes out more than $10,000
in a 24 hour period. Drug dealers know the CTR and CMIR (Currency
and Monetary Instrument Reports) are the primary tools Uncle Sam
(FINCEN) uses to detect money laundering. Rastis thinks the odds of
finding a drug dealer who plays perfect BJ strategy are less than
one in a million. CTRs put a stop to any significant money
laundering at casino cashier cages. Truth is, if one wanted to use
the casino to launder cash, he would have "runners" purchase chips
with cash and then turn around and cash in the chips knowing CTRs
would be generated. He would not risk significant % by putting them
put into play. This is not a cost efficient money laundering
technique for a savvy drug dealer. Drug dealers utilize other means
which give them more credibility as legitimate bidness men. Keep in
mind, most big time narcotics dealers are known to law enforcement.
There is no truth to be discovered, only error to be uncovered. The
dude with the never ending supply of Benjamin's in his coat pocket
is simply gambling, a favorite pass time of many drug dealers by the
way.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@g...>
wrote:

<<The "vig" (commission) is way too high. He risks losing a

significant

percent to the house and if you cash out a significant amount of

chips, he

receives a W2G. He then and you owes 30%+ to Uncle Sam. Drug

dealers can

launder their money all day long and pay a "commission" of less

than 7%.>>

···

House edge on 21 with basic strategy is well under 1%.

There are no W2-Gs for table games no matter how much you win.

Cogno

#6

<<You may be correct about the W2G but he will have a CTR (Currency
Transaction Report) filed on him if he cashes out more than $10,000 in a 24
hour period.>>

It doesn't have to be a cashout. The buy-ins will trigger a CTR-C.

<<the odds of finding a drug dealer who plays perfect BJ strategy are less
than one in a million.>>

I'll take that bet.

Even with average strategy the house edge is small.

I wasn't arguing about whether he was laundering money, just correcting the
misinformation posted.

Cogno

#7

If in fact $10,000 of buy in's in a 24 hour period trigger a CTR
(which I don't believe is the case), then there is no way the drug
dealer was laundering money unless he bought in for less than
$10,000 which is chump change to a drug dealer. Can you imagine how
many CTRs would be generated in a single day at the Wynn or Belagio!
To suggest that drug dealers are laundering cash in casinos is just
not factual.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@g...>
wrote:

<<You may be correct about the W2G but he will have a CTR (Currency
Transaction Report) filed on him if he cashes out more than

$10,000 in a 24

hour period.>>

It doesn't have to be a cashout. The buy-ins will trigger a CTR-C.

<<the odds of finding a drug dealer who plays perfect BJ strategy

are less

than one in a million.>>

I'll take that bet.

Even with average strategy the house edge is small.

I wasn't arguing about whether he was laundering money, just

correcting the

···

misinformation posted.

Cogno

#8

<<If in fact $10,000 of buy in's in a 24 hour period trigger a CTR (which I
don't believe is the case), then there is no way the drug dealer was
laundering money unless he bought in for less than $10,000 which is chump
change to a drug dealer. Can you imagine how many CTRs would be generated in
a single day at the Wynn or Belagio!
To suggest that drug dealers are laundering cash in casinos is just not
factual.

[snip]

I wasn't arguing about whether he was laundering money, just

correcting the

···

misinformation posted.

Cogno >>

#9

Brian in MI - You as well as some others who have participated in
this thread seem to be confusing "money laundering" with passing
counterfeit bills.

No one launders money by doing what you describe.
As someone else has noted, this person was gambling. Period.

Money laundering is making money which was usually obtained
illegally/thru the underground economy - drug dealers, bookmakers,
arms dealers, Enron executives/white collar criminals, etc. - and
making it appear that the money was "lawfully" earned.

Incidentally, the IRS requires all income to be declared, including
illegally obtained income.

The IRS is not allowed by law to share this info with any other (law
enforcement) agencies, but in reality, of course they do.

The only arrest and prosecution to date in the US of someone betting
offshore apparently came about (reading between the lines of the
reports) due to this individual declaring his sportsbetting profits
to the IRS.
The IRS illegally reported this to local law enforcement who assumed
the guy was a bookmaker, resulting in them raiding his residence and
busting him.

#10

If you make a sports bet for $10k you get a CTR. Money laundering is
a fact.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@g...>
wrote:

<<If in fact $10,000 of buy in's in a 24 hour period trigger a CTR

(which I

don't believe is the case), then there is no way the drug dealer was
laundering money unless he bought in for less than $10,000 which is

chump

change to a drug dealer. Can you imagine how many CTRs would be

generated in

a single day at the Wynn or Belagio!
To suggest that drug dealers are laundering cash in casinos is just

not

···

factual.

[snip]

> I wasn't arguing about whether he was laundering money, just
correcting the
> misinformation posted.
>
> Cogno >>