vpFREE2 Forums

KINGS PAY

#1

"I don't have to cheat to win."
THE CINCINATTI KID

"Luck is for suckers."
MINNESOTA FATS

"Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."
FAST EDDIE FELSON

FATHER TO SON: One day a man is going to come to you and tell you
that he can make the Jack of Hearts jump out of a deck of 52 cards
and squirt cider in your ear. And just as soon as you take that bet,
son, you are going to get an earful of cider.

"Money for nothing and the chicks are free."
MARK KNOFFLER

So here is the payscale:

Four Kings................800+2% METER
Royal Flush...............640
SF........................160
4K.........................60
FH..........................8
FL..........................7
ST..........................5
3K.KINGS....................6
3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
3K.2-TEN....................3
2P..........................1
KB..........................1

The game is called KINGS PAY. So what do you think? What do you
think about this payscale? It's a non-wild-card game. Not Jacks or
Better but Kings or Better. Could you crack this nut?

This is not a challenge to the pros. Dancer, Paladin, exxcent,
fivecard, dunbar, and the other pros could crack this nut in half an
hour. It's not a challenge to them. It's a challenge to you, the
neophyte. The wannabe. The up-and-coming.

I challenge you. Determine the payback of the above payscale. Use
your own devices. But find a way. You must make the attempt. You
must find a way.

This is the kind of stuff you are going to have to crack if you are
going to be a real VP pro. No pie in the sky. No whining. It's
there. So crack it.

I'll report back to you my results at analyzing this game, and give
your every detail at how I arrived at the payback percentage, at a
later date. I'm extremely busy torchiing this play.

They drew lots for the robe of Jesus. Cleopatra rolled the bones.
As long as civilization has been around there has been a sharp
gambler. My intention, in joining vpFREE, was to insure that a
professional gambler would walk the planet long after I'm gone. I
can get sidetracked. But that was my intention then, it's my
intention forever.

#2

Dude, isn't there, like, an old Frank Zappa tune that's forgotten in
this dialogue?

Ride that Pygmy Pony, baby.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

"I don't have to cheat to win."
THE CINCINATTI KID

"Luck is for suckers."
MINNESOTA FATS

"Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."
FAST EDDIE FELSON

FATHER TO SON: One day a man is going to come to you and tell you
that he can make the Jack of Hearts jump out of a deck of 52 cards
and squirt cider in your ear. And just as soon as you take that bet,
son, you are going to get an earful of cider.

"Money for nothing and the chicks are free."
MARK KNOPFLER

#3

Well, no aspirations or desires (or illusions of my very humble abilities)
to become a professional. Something to do while I'm babysitting a bad sump
though...
RF-3200
SF-800
4Kings-4000
Other Quads-300
FH-40
F-35
S-25
3Kings-6
3AQJ-4
3 2thru10-3
2P-1
KOB-1

I'm getting roughly 120% plus the meter? That can't be right. Back to my
sump pump manuals.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
mickeycrimm
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:30 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] KINGS PAY

"I don't have to cheat to win."
THE CINCINATTI KID

"Luck is for suckers."
MINNESOTA FATS

"Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."
FAST EDDIE FELSON

FATHER TO SON: One day a man is going to come to you and tell you
that he can make the Jack of Hearts jump out of a deck of 52 cards
and squirt cider in your ear. And just as soon as you take that bet,
son, you are going to get an earful of cider.

"Money for nothing and the chicks are free."
MARK KNOFFLER

So here is the payscale:

Four Kings................800+2% METER
Royal Flush...............640
SF........................160
4K.........................60
FH..........................8
FL..........................7
ST..........................5
3K.KINGS....................6
3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
3K.2-TEN....................3
2P..........................1
KB..........................1

The game is called KINGS PAY. So what do you think? What do you
think about this payscale? It's a non-wild-card game. Not Jacks or
Better but Kings or Better. Could you crack this nut?

This is not a challenge to the pros. Dancer, Paladin, exxcent,
fivecard, dunbar, and the other pros could crack this nut in half an
hour. It's not a challenge to them. It's a challenge to you, the
neophyte. The wannabe. The up-and-coming.

I challenge you. Determine the payback of the above payscale. Use
your own devices. But find a way. You must make the attempt. You
must find a way.

This is the kind of stuff you are going to have to crack if you are
going to be a real VP pro. No pie in the sky. No whining. It's
there. So crack it.

I'll report back to you my results at analyzing this game, and give
your every detail at how I arrived at the payback percentage, at a
later date. I'm extremely busy torchiing this play.

They drew lots for the robe of Jesus. Cleopatra rolled the bones.
As long as civilization has been around there has been a sharp
gambler. My intention, in joining vpFREE, was to insure that a
professional gambler would walk the planet long after I'm gone. I
can get sidetracked. But that was my intention then, it's my
intention forever.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#4

Mickey wrote: I challenge you. Determine the payback of the above
payscale. Use
your own devices. But find a way. You must make the attempt. You
must find a way.

This is the kind of stuff you are going to have to crack if you are
going to be a real VP pro. No pie in the sky. No whining. It's
there. So crack it.

I'll report back to you my results at analyzing this game, and give
your every detail at how I arrived at the payback percentage, at a
later date. I'm extremely busy torchiing this play.

Bravo! This is an interesting, non-trivial problem (the kind I LOVE to
write about in my Tuesday column). Even though he's addressing this
problem to others, I will try to solve it personally. I'll keep my
solution to myself for at least two months to allow him to publish
first.

What I suspect I'll find is that however I solve this poser, Mickey will
use a somewhat different technique. And I'll learn from his technique.
(With his permission, I'll explain how I solved it after he presents his
answer. And perhaps Harry or someone else will have done it still
another way). Learning from others is very useful --- but to get the
most out of this you have to struggle with the solution yourself first.

On the other hand, you can forget about figuring this out and spend your
time bemoaning that Station Casinos now requires $4 to earn a point on
FPDW --- never mind that players from other parts of the country would
KILL to get a 100.76% game with no slot club at all! It's up to you. But
if you're good enough, there's money to be made.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

#5

I'll have a go...

I get 109.962% before the progressive is added in (I assume the payout
of quad kings is a casino mistake). Here is how I broke it down:

Royal 1.28%
STFL 0.90%
4 Kings 19.64%
4oK 12.70%
Full H 8.56%
Flush 10.01%
Strght 7.22%
3 Kings 5.27%
3 JQA 6.87%
3 2-10 14.27%
2 Pair 11.99%
P.Kings 11.24%

I would consider the game basically 112% with the progressive thrown in.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

"I don't have to cheat to win."
THE CINCINATTI KID

"Luck is for suckers."
MINNESOTA FATS

"Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."
FAST EDDIE FELSON

FATHER TO SON: One day a man is going to come to you and tell you
that he can make the Jack of Hearts jump out of a deck of 52 cards
and squirt cider in your ear. And just as soon as you take that bet,
son, you are going to get an earful of cider.

"Money for nothing and the chicks are free."
MARK KNOFFLER

So here is the payscale:

Four Kings................800+2% METER
Royal Flush...............640
SF........................160
4K.........................60
FH..........................8
FL..........................7
ST..........................5
3K.KINGS....................6
3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
3K.2-TEN....................3
2P..........................1
KB..........................1

The game is called KINGS PAY. So what do you think? What do you
think about this payscale? It's a non-wild-card game. Not Jacks or
Better but Kings or Better. Could you crack this nut?

This is not a challenge to the pros. Dancer, Paladin, exxcent,
fivecard, dunbar, and the other pros could crack this nut in half an
hour. It's not a challenge to them. It's a challenge to you, the
neophyte. The wannabe. The up-and-coming.

I challenge you. Determine the payback of the above payscale. Use
your own devices. But find a way. You must make the attempt. You
must find a way.

This is the kind of stuff you are going to have to crack if you are
going to be a real VP pro. No pie in the sky. No whining. It's
there. So crack it.

I'll report back to you my results at analyzing this game, and give
your every detail at how I arrived at the payback percentage, at a
later date. I'm extremely busy torchiing this play.

They drew lots for the robe of Jesus. Cleopatra rolled the bones.
As long as civilization has been around there has been a sharp
gambler. My intention, in joining vpFREE, was to insure that a
professional gambler would walk the planet long after I'm gone. I
can get sidetracked. But that was my intention then, it's my
intention forever.

#6

Oops I made a mistake. I valued the STFL at 400 instead of 800. Here
is the proper percentage: 110.974% without Prog

Royal 1.30%
STFL 2.27%
4 Kings 19.58%
4oK 12.60%
Full H 8.50%
Flush 10.28%
Strght 7.14%
3 Kings 5.25%
3 JQA 6.85%
3 2-10 14.10%
2 Pair 11.91%
P.Kings 11.18%

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kiwiboy4921" <waynes@...> wrote:

I'll have a go...

I get 109.962% before the progressive is added in (I assume the payout
of quad kings is a casino mistake). Here is how I broke it down:

Royal 1.28%
STFL 0.90%
4 Kings 19.64%
4oK 12.70%
Full H 8.56%
Flush 10.01%
Strght 7.22%
3 Kings 5.27%
3 JQA 6.87%
3 2-10 14.27%
2 Pair 11.99%
P.Kings 11.24%

I would consider the game basically 112% with the progressive thrown in.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
>
> "I don't have to cheat to win."
> THE CINCINATTI KID
>
> "Luck is for suckers."
> MINNESOTA FATS
>
> "Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."
> FAST EDDIE FELSON
>
> FATHER TO SON: One day a man is going to come to you and tell you
> that he can make the Jack of Hearts jump out of a deck of 52 cards
> and squirt cider in your ear. And just as soon as you take that bet,
> son, you are going to get an earful of cider.
>
> "Money for nothing and the chicks are free."
> MARK KNOFFLER
>
> So here is the payscale:
>
> Four Kings................800+2% METER
> Royal Flush...............640
> SF........................160
> 4K.........................60
> FH..........................8
> FL..........................7
> ST..........................5
> 3K.KINGS....................6
> 3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
> 3K.2-TEN....................3
> 2P..........................1
> KB..........................1
>
> The game is called KINGS PAY. So what do you think? What do you
> think about this payscale? It's a non-wild-card game. Not Jacks or
> Better but Kings or Better. Could you crack this nut?
>
> This is not a challenge to the pros. Dancer, Paladin, exxcent,
> fivecard, dunbar, and the other pros could crack this nut in half an
> hour. It's not a challenge to them. It's a challenge to you, the
> neophyte. The wannabe. The up-and-coming.
>
> I challenge you. Determine the payback of the above payscale. Use
> your own devices. But find a way. You must make the attempt. You
> must find a way.
>
> This is the kind of stuff you are going to have to crack if you are
> going to be a real VP pro. No pie in the sky. No whining. It's
> there. So crack it.
>
> I'll report back to you my results at analyzing this game, and give
> your every detail at how I arrived at the payback percentage, at a
> later date. I'm extremely busy torchiing this play.
>
> They drew lots for the robe of Jesus. Cleopatra rolled the bones.
> As long as civilization has been around there has been a sharp
> gambler. My intention, in joining vpFREE, was to insure that a
> professional gambler would walk the planet long after I'm gone. I
> can get sidetracked. But that was my intention then, it's my
> intention forever.
>

#7

I'm not gonna claim any fancy footwork -- it's a great analytic
exercise, but I'm innately lazy. Wolf Video Poker brilliantly handles
this paytable. Since results are in line with the below posts, I'll
go ahead and cite the numbers.

While waiting on hold, at reset it came up as 100.9721 using a
non-penalty strategy, 100.9741% with penalty consideration. Penalty
strategy stats are exactly as kiwi notes (if he arrived at these
independently of commercial software -- strong kudos).

Allowing for the quad Kings cycle and strategy adjustment, the
progressive is good for just north of 113.

- H.

kiwiboy4921 wrote:

···

Oops I made a mistake. I valued the STFL at 400 instead of 800.
Here is the proper percentage: 110.974% without Prog

Royal 1.30%
STFL 2.27%
4 Kings 19.58%
4oK 12.60%
Full H 8.50%
Flush 10.28%
Strght 7.14%
3 Kings 5.25%
3 JQA 6.85%
3 2-10 14.10%
2 Pair 11.91%
P.Kings 11.18%

kiwiboy4921 wrote:
> I'll have a go...
>
> I get 109.962% before the progressive is added in (I assume the
> payout of quad kings is a casino mistake). Here is how I broke it
> down:
>
> Royal 1.28%
> STFL 0.90%
> 4 Kings 19.64%
> 4oK 12.70%
> Full H 8.56%
> Flush 10.01%
> Strght 7.22%
> 3 Kings 5.27%
> 3 JQA 6.87%
> 3 2-10 14.27%
> 2 Pair 11.99%
> P.Kings 11.24%
>
> I would consider the game basically 112% with the progressive
> thrown in.

> mickeycrimm wrote:
> > So here is the payscale:
> >
> > Four Kings................800+2% METER
> > Royal Flush...............640
> > SF........................160
> > 4K.........................60
> > FH..........................8
> > FL..........................7
> > ST..........................5
> > 3K.KINGS....................6
> > 3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
> > 3K.2-TEN....................3
> > 2P..........................1
> > KB..........................1
> >
> > The game is called KINGS PAY. So what do you think? What do you
> > think about this payscale? It's a non-wild-card game. Not Jacks
> > or Better but Kings or Better. Could you crack this nut?

#8

My editing sucks ... that's 110.9721/41, of course. And I doubt there
would be any strategy shift for the Kings meter, so call the prog at
112.964%.

Harry Porter wrote:

···

I'm not gonna claim any fancy footwork -- it's a great analytic
exercise, but I'm innately lazy. Wolf Video Poker brilliantly
handles this paytable. Since results are in line with the below
posts, I'll go ahead and cite the numbers.

While waiting on hold, at reset it came up as 100.9721 using a
non-penalty strategy, 100.9741% with penalty consideration. Penalty
strategy stats are exactly as kiwi notes (if he arrived at these
independently of commercial software -- strong kudos).

Allowing for the quad Kings cycle and strategy adjustment, the
progressive is good for just north of 113.

- H.

kiwiboy4921 wrote:
> Oops I made a mistake. I valued the STFL at 400 instead of 800.
> Here is the proper percentage: 110.974% without Prog

#9

Well done. For some reason BDWP was giving a RF contribution of over 12%!
Would have been a clue as to where I was wrong if I had bothered to look;-)
My fault rather than software or computer, I'm sure. I recalculated on FVP
and now get a total return of about 110.315%. There is some slop in my
calcs as I simply averaged the trip pays. The average falls pretty
conveniently between the 3 and 4 (17.3) coin return so I simply averaged ER
for both amounts plugged into the analyzer. Ass backwards and sloppy, but I
think I got there. 110% plus the 2% meter. Final answer.

Note to those interested caveman mechanics: If you hit a broken machine
with a stick long enough and hard enough it will either fall apart or begin
working again. I got lucky today.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
kiwiboy4921
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:23 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: KINGS PAY

Oops I made a mistake. I valued the STFL at 400 instead of 800. Here
is the proper percentage: 110.974% without Prog

Royal 1.30%
STFL 2.27%
4 Kings 19.58%
4oK 12.60%
Full H 8.50%
Flush 10.28%
Strght 7.14%
3 Kings 5.25%
3 JQA 6.85%
3 2-10 14.10%
2 Pair 11.91%
P.Kings 11.18%

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kiwiboy4921" <waynes@...> wrote:

I'll have a go...

I get 109.962% before the progressive is added in (I assume the payout
of quad kings is a casino mistake). Here is how I broke it down:

Royal 1.28%
STFL 0.90%
4 Kings 19.64%
4oK 12.70%
Full H 8.56%
Flush 10.01%
Strght 7.22%
3 Kings 5.27%
3 JQA 6.87%
3 2-10 14.27%
2 Pair 11.99%
P.Kings 11.24%

I would consider the game basically 112% with the progressive thrown in.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
>
> "I don't have to cheat to win."
> THE CINCINATTI KID
>
> "Luck is for suckers."
> MINNESOTA FATS
>
> "Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."
> FAST EDDIE FELSON
>
> FATHER TO SON: One day a man is going to come to you and tell you
> that he can make the Jack of Hearts jump out of a deck of 52 cards
> and squirt cider in your ear. And just as soon as you take that bet,
> son, you are going to get an earful of cider.
>
> "Money for nothing and the chicks are free."
> MARK KNOFFLER
>
> So here is the payscale:
>
> Four Kings................800+2% METER
> Royal Flush...............640
> SF........................160
> 4K.........................60
> FH..........................8
> FL..........................7
> ST..........................5
> 3K.KINGS....................6
> 3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
> 3K.2-TEN....................3
> 2P..........................1
> KB..........................1
>
> The game is called KINGS PAY. So what do you think? What do you
> think about this payscale? It's a non-wild-card game. Not Jacks or
> Better but Kings or Better. Could you crack this nut?
>
> This is not a challenge to the pros. Dancer, Paladin, exxcent,
> fivecard, dunbar, and the other pros could crack this nut in half an
> hour. It's not a challenge to them. It's a challenge to you, the
> neophyte. The wannabe. The up-and-coming.
>
> I challenge you. Determine the payback of the above payscale. Use
> your own devices. But find a way. You must make the attempt. You
> must find a way.
>
> This is the kind of stuff you are going to have to crack if you are
> going to be a real VP pro. No pie in the sky. No whining. It's
> there. So crack it.
>
> I'll report back to you my results at analyzing this game, and give
> your every detail at how I arrived at the payback percentage, at a
> later date. I'm extremely busy torchiing this play.
>
> They drew lots for the robe of Jesus. Cleopatra rolled the bones.
> As long as civilization has been around there has been a sharp
> gambler. My intention, in joining vpFREE, was to insure that a
> professional gambler would walk the planet long after I'm gone. I
> can get sidetracked. But that was my intention then, it's my
> intention forever.
>

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#10

How do you like Wolf VP, Harry? If I recall from the website it seems to do
some tricks that my present software can't do.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Harry Porter
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:04 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: KINGS PAY

I'm not gonna claim any fancy footwork -- it's a great analytic
exercise, but I'm innately lazy. Wolf Video Poker brilliantly handles
this paytable. Since results are in line with the below posts, I'll
go ahead and cite the numbers.

While waiting on hold, at reset it came up as 100.9721 using a
non-penalty strategy, 100.9741% with penalty consideration. Penalty
strategy stats are exactly as kiwi notes (if he arrived at these
independently of commercial software -- strong kudos).

Allowing for the quad Kings cycle and strategy adjustment, the
progressive is good for just north of 113.

- H.

kiwiboy4921 wrote:

Oops I made a mistake. I valued the STFL at 400 instead of 800.
Here is the proper percentage: 110.974% without Prog

Royal 1.30%
STFL 2.27%
4 Kings 19.58%
4oK 12.60%
Full H 8.50%
Flush 10.28%
Strght 7.14%
3 Kings 5.25%
3 JQA 6.85%
3 2-10 14.10%
2 Pair 11.91%
P.Kings 11.18%

kiwiboy4921 wrote:
> I'll have a go...
>
> I get 109.962% before the progressive is added in (I assume the
> payout of quad kings is a casino mistake). Here is how I broke it
> down:
>
> Royal 1.28%
> STFL 0.90%
> 4 Kings 19.64%
> 4oK 12.70%
> Full H 8.56%
> Flush 10.01%
> Strght 7.22%
> 3 Kings 5.27%
> 3 JQA 6.87%
> 3 2-10 14.27%
> 2 Pair 11.99%
> P.Kings 11.24%
>
> I would consider the game basically 112% with the progressive
> thrown in.

> mickeycrimm wrote:
> > So here is the payscale:
> >
> > Four Kings................800+2% METER
> > Royal Flush...............640
> > SF........................160
> > 4K.........................60
> > FH..........................8
> > FL..........................7
> > ST..........................5
> > 3K.KINGS....................6
> > 3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
> > 3K.2-TEN....................3
> > 2P..........................1
> > KB..........................1
> >
> > The game is called KINGS PAY. So what do you think? What do you
> > think about this payscale? It's a non-wild-card game. Not Jacks
> > or Better but Kings or Better. Could you crack this nut?

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#11

Harry

I actually tried to calculate this in Excel and gave up after 30
minutes. I then just plugged it into VPW and got the results :slight_smile: The
answer then helped me see the error of my ways with my Excel numbers.

I was actually impressed with VPW custom paytable functions. It was
very easy to use. It also sounds like Wolf VP is also worth a good
look at for this functionality alone.

Cheers

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

I'm not gonna claim any fancy footwork -- it's a great analytic
exercise, but I'm innately lazy. Wolf Video Poker brilliantly handles
this paytable. Since results are in line with the below posts, I'll
go ahead and cite the numbers.

While waiting on hold, at reset it came up as 100.9721 using a
non-penalty strategy, 100.9741% with penalty consideration. Penalty
strategy stats are exactly as kiwi notes (if he arrived at these
independently of commercial software -- strong kudos).

Allowing for the quad Kings cycle and strategy adjustment, the
progressive is good for just north of 113.

- H.

kiwiboy4921 wrote:
> Oops I made a mistake. I valued the STFL at 400 instead of 800.
> Here is the proper percentage: 110.974% without Prog
>
> Royal 1.30%
> STFL 2.27%
> 4 Kings 19.58%
> 4oK 12.60%
> Full H 8.50%
> Flush 10.28%
> Strght 7.14%
> 3 Kings 5.25%
> 3 JQA 6.85%
> 3 2-10 14.10%
> 2 Pair 11.91%
> P.Kings 11.18%

> kiwiboy4921 wrote:
> > I'll have a go...
> >
> > I get 109.962% before the progressive is added in (I assume the
> > payout of quad kings is a casino mistake). Here is how I broke it
> > down:
> >
> > Royal 1.28%
> > STFL 0.90%
> > 4 Kings 19.64%
> > 4oK 12.70%
> > Full H 8.56%
> > Flush 10.01%
> > Strght 7.22%
> > 3 Kings 5.27%
> > 3 JQA 6.87%
> > 3 2-10 14.27%
> > 2 Pair 11.99%
> > P.Kings 11.24%
> >
> > I would consider the game basically 112% with the progressive
> > thrown in.

> > mickeycrimm wrote:
> > > So here is the payscale:
> > >
> > > Four Kings................800+2% METER
> > > Royal Flush...............640
> > > SF........................160
> > > 4K.........................60
> > > FH..........................8
> > > FL..........................7
> > > ST..........................5
> > > 3K.KINGS....................6
> > > 3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
> > > 3K.2-TEN....................3
> > > 2P..........................1
> > > KB..........................1
> > >
> > > The game is called KINGS PAY. So what do you think? What do you
> > > think about this payscale? It's a non-wild-card game. Not Jacks
> > > or Better but Kings or Better. Could you crack this nut?

#12

Chandler wrote:

How do you like Wolf VP, Harry? If I recall from the website it
seems to do some tricks that my present software can't do.

I have one of just about everything in my vp arsenal. In this case,
WVP's option to specify unique payouts for individual 3K's yielded a
snap analysis.

There are many features of WVP that make it uniquely valuable and I
find much that is exceptionally well conceived and designed;
definitely not one to overlook.

- Harry

#13

My software took about one minute to analyze it and came up with:

Payback: 110.974058% (at progressive reset)
Variance: 177.9395

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

Four Kings................800+2% METER
Royal Flush...............640
SF........................160
4K.........................60
FH..........................8
FL..........................7
ST..........................5
3K.KINGS....................6
3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
3K.2-TEN....................3
2P..........................1
KB..........................1

#14

Factoring in strategy changes for the progressive I get a payback of
113.01287% with a variance of 212.6945.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "drich295" <drichards@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
> Four Kings................800+2% METER
> Royal Flush...............640
> SF........................160
> 4K.........................60
> FH..........................8
> FL..........................7
> ST..........................5
> 3K.KINGS....................6
> 3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
> 3K.2-TEN....................3
> 2P..........................1
> KB..........................1
>

My software took about one minute to analyze it and came up with:

Payback: 110.974058% (at progressive reset)
Variance: 177.9395

#15

Looks a lot like 10/7/5 double bonus, so I'll use that as the base.
Jacks or better is about 20% of the return, so Kings or better would
be half that: -10%. The average trip is 6 + 4*3 + 3*9 /13 = 3.5 .
Trips are about 20% of the return also, so add .5/3 = 1/6: +3%. 8 for
FH instead of 10 means: -2%. The average db quad is 160 + 80*3 + 50*9
/13 = 65. That's about -1%, since here the quad is 60 and every 4
points is a percent. The SF is about triple, so: +1%. The RF is about
20% off, so that's about -0.5%. The quad kings represents a bonus of
800-60= 740, 740/4/13= 14%.

Grand total: -10% +3% -2% -1% +1% -0.5% +14% +2%meter = 107%

That's with db strategy, some strategy changes would probably boost
the return. You might have trouble getting all of the 2% meter, or
maybe you'll get more than that, depends on the situation.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

Four Kings................800+2% METER
Royal Flush...............640
SF........................160
4K.........................60
FH..........................8
FL..........................7
ST..........................5
3K.KINGS....................6
3K.ACES, QUEENS, JACKS......4
3K.2-TEN....................3
2P..........................1
KB..........................1

#16

OK Mickey, I have an answer for you. Not exact, but I think "close
enough" as in hand grenades, horse shoes, and atom bombs :wink:

ER: 109%
Variance: 180+

This was part computation and part guess-timation :smiley:

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

I challenge you. Determine the payback of the above payscale. Use
your own devices. But find a way. You must make the attempt. You
must find a way.

#17

drich295 wrote:

My software took about one minute to analyze it and came up with: >
Payback: 110.974058% (at progressive reset)
Variance: 177.9395

Factoring in strategy changes for the progressive I get a payback of
113.01287% with a variance of 212.6945.

At what meter value did you determine that there might be a strategy
shift that would appreciably shift EV?

On a quick look, I estimated the average meter (from Wolf VP stats) at
a little above a 10% climb and didn't see any obvious strategy changes
in that vicinity.

Your prog EV is close to a full .1% higher than what dropped out of
WVP. Insight into your calculation would be helpful.

- Harry

#18

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:

drich295 wrote:
> My software took about one minute to analyze it and came up with:

> Payback: 110.974058% (at progressive reset)
> Variance: 177.9395
>
>
> Factoring in strategy changes for the progressive I get a payback

of

> 113.01287% with a variance of 212.6945.

At what meter value did you determine that there might be a strategy
shift that would appreciably shift EV?

On a quick look, I estimated the average meter (from Wolf VP stats)

at

a little above a 10% climb and didn't see any obvious strategy

changes

in that vicinity.

Your prog EV is close to a full .1% higher than what dropped out of
WVP. Insight into your calculation would be helpful.

- Harry

Harry,

I get 112.9622% using WVP or .05067% less than the above. Close
enough agreement I suppose.

I did the progressive as follows:

The cycle for 4 Kings was ~4070 hands. Using a 5 credit bet (an
assumption, because I don't think Mickey indicated the bet size)
gives 20350 credits bet over a Kings cycle. So, a 2% meter would add
407 credits to the 4 Kings payout, or on a 1 credit basis another
81. Using 881 for the 4 Kings payout gives the above overall payout
percentage.

Didn't bother to look at the strategy charts for either payout, so
can't comment on any strategy changes. I suppose there could easily
be some changes to account for a .05067% difference.

Bill