Timmer nice post except it is no wheres near 3%, I would say .03% is alot closer to the actual number. Coast casino's were upset at a total of 80 to 90 players in toto. How many thousands of player played at Coast casinos? 80 to 90 players, think about it?
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In the future, please quote the part you are responding to / commenting upon. This posting is meaningless to anyone who did not read or remember the original message. Thanks.
At 12:45 PM 09/02/2003 -0400, you wrote:
Timmer nice post except it is no wheres near 3%, I would say .03% is alot closer to the actual number. Coast casino's were upset at a total of 80 to 90 players in toto. How many thousands of player played at Coast casinos? 80 to 90 players, think about it?
If you would have read my post closely you would have summized that
perhaps 1% of all the players playing VP can beat the game for any
apreciationable amount. and every one of those 1% play below their
capabilities at least some of the time. and of that fraction that
play that are apreciatable winners over the term, lets just use the
length of time the suncoast was open till they took out the good
games. I could see the number being in the area of 90 of 18,000
regular players total that played the coasts +EV games exclusivly
and took maximum advantage of points days and OPC's.
Although I wouldnt doubt that coast resorts were peeved at a hunderd
or so +EVVP players I dont regard that as a major reason for the
degradation of their VP mix. However I do feel the reason for the
degradation of the coasts VP selection goes beyond these aforto
mentioned reasons. It includes their pending sale to Harrahs As well
as their unwillingness to continue to fade the good VP players slot
cash back costs and OPC's any longer. So rather than go through the
added expence of retooling their slot club there by pissing off the
entire slot and vp customer base Again(winners and losers, smart and
dumb alike) they chose to kill two birds with one stone. those two
birds being no longer having to fade the cash back of +ev VP players
and making their slot mix more attractive to their potential buyers
ie Harrahs.
However you must also Know that coast resorts was in the process of
expanding into a new Arena and hotel(s)(Orleans)which are still on
the horizon ie (Southcoast) which was costing them 400M and was
over running to the tune of 20 Million. And also remodeling the gold
coast and adding a new parking structure at the same time (another
40 million over running appx 2 million). Also Some of the principals
were reducing their holdings (including Tito Tiberti and other major
points holders) these principals wanted to expand using incomming
profits to foot the bill as much as possible. so to help do this and
to make their propertyies more attractive to their biggest potential
buyer they made the obvious move which was to cut the loss
represented by +ev VP crowd and their penchant for triple dipping
when it comes to slot cash back and complementary OPC's.
~t
In the future, please quote the part you are responding to /
commenting
upon. This posting is meaningless to anyone who did not read or
remember
the original message. Thanks.
>Timmer nice post except it is no wheres near 3%, I would
say .03% is alot
>closer to the actual number. Coast casino's were upset at a
total of 80
>to 90 players in toto. How many thousands of player played at
Coast
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby@c...> wrote:
At 12:45 PM 09/02/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>casinos? 80 to 90 players, think about it?
If you would have read my post closely you would have summized that
perhaps 1% of all the players playing VP can beat the game for any
apreciationable amount. and every one of those 1% play below their
capabilities at least some of the time. and of that fraction that
play that are apreciatable winners over the term, lets just use the
length of time the suncoast was open till they took out the good
games. I could see the number being in the area of 90 of 18,000
regular players total that played the coasts +EV games exclusivly
and took maximum advantage of points days and OPC's.
Actually, given the history of the way the owner has reacted to
advantage BJ players, I think there is strong reason to believe
that the change was simply due to an aversion to losing to anyone
for any reason. This probably came directly from Jackie Gaughn.
Note: Killing the FPVP doesn't just piss off
the skilled players. The games made money. Removing them pissed off
the losers and the winners. The coasts hope their players will just
keep donating to the lower payscales. Besides, we all know that the
higher up you go in casino management, the fewer rational thoughts
you will find, with the notable exception of the Maloof family.
This means it is very difficult to apply logic to anything the
casinos do.
and making their slot mix more attractive to their potential buyers
ie Harrahs.
Huh? I just don't think this is a rational argument. Harrah's could
buy ANY casino and put in whatever payscales it desires. Now maybe
the Coasts want to prove to Harrah's that a casino can make money in
the locals market withour good VP. I could go for that argument.
However you must also Know that coast resorts was in the process
of expanding into a new Arena and hotel(s)(Orleans)which are
still on the horizon ie (Southcoast) which was costing them
400M and was over running to the tune of 20 Million. And also
remodeling the gold coast and adding a new parking structure
at the same time
This makes sense.
Quad Zilla
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "timmer" <timmr21@y...> wrote:
I know some "people" at Harrahs . while they wont discuss the coast
properties directly . they did divulge some of their buisness
ideology about buying "used" properties. this guided my opinion on
this particulat part of the equation. Although you did bring some
valid points to mind. My personal opinions on harrahs in the Las
Vegas locals market run concurrent with my opinions about a fart in
a crowded hot tub. slightly amusing but mostly disgusting.
Also if im not misinformed Jackie has little to do with the
western "coast" casinos. they are Mike and Tito's baby.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "quadzilla_666" <quadzilla666@e...>
wrote:
> If you would have read my post closely you would have summized
that
> perhaps 1% of all the players playing VP can beat the game for
any
> apreciationable amount. and every one of those 1% play below
their
> capabilities at least some of the time. and of that fraction
that
> play that are apreciatable winners over the term, lets just use
the
> length of time the suncoast was open till they took out the good
> games. I could see the number being in the area of 90 of 18,000
> regular players total that played the coasts +EV games
exclusivly
> and took maximum advantage of points days and OPC's.
Actually, given the history of the way the owner has reacted to
advantage BJ players, I think there is strong reason to believe
that the change was simply due to an aversion to losing to anyone
for any reason. This probably came directly from Jackie Gaughn.Note: Killing the FPVP doesn't just piss off
the skilled players. The games made money. Removing them pissed
off
the losers and the winners. The coasts hope their players will
just
keep donating to the lower payscales. Besides, we all know that
the
higher up you go in casino management, the fewer rational thoughts
you will find, with the notable exception of the Maloof family.
This means it is very difficult to apply logic to anything the
casinos do.> and making their slot mix more attractive to their potential
buyers
> ie Harrahs.
Huh? I just don't think this is a rational argument. Harrah's
could
buy ANY casino and put in whatever payscales it desires. Now maybe
the Coasts want to prove to Harrah's that a casino can make money
in
the locals market withour good VP. I could go for that argument.
> However you must also Know that coast resorts was in the
process
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "timmer" <timmr21@y...> wrote:
> of expanding into a new Arena and hotel(s)(Orleans)which are
> still on the horizon ie (Southcoast) which was costing them
> 400M and was over running to the tune of 20 Million. And also
> remodeling the gold coast and adding a new parking structure
> at the same timeThis makes sense.
Quad Zilla