vpFREE2 Forums

Kevin L's sign off

In a message dated 8/31/2003 7:50:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com writes:

  Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:11:51 -0000
Subject: Final post on this..or any other subject

As is my custom lately, since I go to NV less often, I read a week or two of
digests when I get time & have followed Kevin's posts on a number of issues
such as moving to/living in LV. Kevin's final post tonight forced me to read all
the digests that I missed to see what built up to this climax. Not finding
anything substantial, I can only assume that people are attacking him with
private posts.

Kevin is strident & unyielding in his opinions but fierce in his devotion to
what he believes in. By being inflexible, he sets himself up and I have been
one of his critics. But I've also found that, when you remove that tough
veneer, there is a lot of good information.

Kevin, I hope you reconsider. I'll admit that a light often turns on when I
finally get your viewpoint. I'd like to continue to disagree with you but at a
civil level.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

  From: "mkl54321" <mkl54321@yahoo.com>

(This was also posted on VP-Mail)

Does anyone read this stuff or care? I will stop posting if if I am wasting
my time. Anyhow....

WIFE played....
11 hours on triple play 610 dealt hands per hour. This means over 20,000
total hands and NO deuces. Three deuces dealt 16 times (x3 = 48 times)

This is the third run on this machine of over 11 hours and no deuces.

This one would have been just as painful as the others except for the DEALT
ROYAL after having $800 in the machine. Ended up picking up a few other
decent hands and SO no deuces and yet a profit (after taxes and tip) of
$2400 plus.

However in case anyone is counting, we are still down for the year over
$7,000. This is after cash back on about 1.4 million coin in. Our five
years results show a LOSS of slightly less than $3,000. This is on a total
of over $4 million coin in. I don't have the exact coin in numbers but we
are .06% behind. By the way, our comp total is now over $45,000.
Obviously a decent vacation/hobby investment.

This year my wife has had a decent year and I have languished!. I have not
had a ROYAL since June 10th. Considering our volume of coin in I am now
"behind" about 8 Royal cycles. I plan to sit in the car from now on and let
her play. (By the way, I did win $15 playing a .25 7/5 Bonus Poker
progressive that was over $2400. I wonder if it has been hit yet?)

We care. Keep posting. Dick M.

Ednar wrote:

(This was also posted on VP-Mail)

Does anyone read this stuff or care? I will stop posting if if I am
wasting
my time. Anyhow....

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Given his hissy fit when appropriately chastised by Skip Hughes who knows what might have set him off.

Personally, I think the list is probably better off without him. (Although I do have to give him credit for the concept of pity mode when the credits dwindle to a precious few.)

···

I agree; I can't remember reading anything in the public posts which
seemed sufficient to warrant his leaving, and I've told him so by
private e-mail. I hope he reconsiders.

Cheers.

Bill Velek

This is vpFREE. When did Skip chastise him? Did I miss that?

Scot

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Coleman [mailto:vpho…@…net]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 2:29 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Kevin L's sign off

Given his hissy fit when appropriately chastised by Skip Hughes who
knows
what might have set him off.

(This was also posted on VP-Mail)

Does anyone read this stuff or care? I will stop posting if if I

am wasting

my time. Anyhow....

Keep it up. Really enjoy reading about large sample data that tells
it like it is.

DWK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

Hello,

Yes people read it and care -- seems like you are doing OK

David K

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Ednar
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 2:56 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] NSUD triple play weekend results

  (This was also posted on VP-Mail)

  Does anyone read this stuff or care? I will stop posting if if I am wasting
  my time. Anyhow....

  WIFE played....
  11 hours on triple play 610 dealt hands per hour. This means over 20,000
  total hands and NO deuces. Three deuces dealt 16 times (x3 = 48 times)

  This is the third run on this machine of over 11 hours and no deuces.

  This one would have been just as painful as the others except for the DEALT
  ROYAL after having $800 in the machine. Ended up picking up a few other
  decent hands and SO no deuces and yet a profit (after taxes and tip) of
  $2400 plus.

  However in case anyone is counting, we are still down for the year over
  $7,000. This is after cash back on about 1.4 million coin in. Our five
  years results show a LOSS of slightly less than $3,000. This is on a total
  of over $4 million coin in. I don't have the exact coin in numbers but we
  are .06% behind. By the way, our comp total is now over $45,000.
  Obviously a decent vacation/hobby investment.

  This year my wife has had a decent year and I have languished!. I have not
  had a ROYAL since June 10th. Considering our volume of coin in I am now
  "behind" about 8 Royal cycles. I plan to sit in the car from now on and let
  her play. (By the way, I did win $15 playing a .25 7/5 Bonus Poker
  progressive that was over $2400. I wonder if it has been hit yet?)

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Received several posts telling me this information is desired. Thanks for
replying. Glad to see this is of value.

Please keep posting. I care! Kat

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Ednar
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 11:56 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] NSUD triple play weekend results

  (This was also posted on VP-Mail)

  Does anyone read this stuff or care? I will stop posting if if I am wasting
  my time. Anyhow....

  WIFE played....
  11 hours on triple play 610 dealt hands per hour. This means over 20,000
  total hands and NO deuces. Three deuces dealt 16 times (x3 = 48 times)

  This is the third run on this machine of over 11 hours and no deuces.

  This one would have been just as painful as the others except for the DEALT
  ROYAL after having $800 in the machine. Ended up picking up a few other
  decent hands and SO no deuces and yet a profit (after taxes and tip) of
  $2400 plus.

  However in case anyone is counting, we are still down for the year over
  $7,000. This is after cash back on about 1.4 million coin in. Our five
  years results show a LOSS of slightly less than $3,000. This is on a total
  of over $4 million coin in. I don't have the exact coin in numbers but we
  are .06% behind. By the way, our comp total is now over $45,000.
  Obviously a decent vacation/hobby investment.

  This year my wife has had a decent year and I have languished!. I have not
  had a ROYAL since June 10th. Considering our volume of coin in I am now
  "behind" about 8 Royal cycles. I plan to sit in the car from now on and let
  her play. (By the way, I did win $15 playing a .25 7/5 Bonus Poker
  progressive that was over $2400. I wonder if it has been hit yet?)

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
  vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What was his theory ? the the games are rigged by IGT for specific
casinos? or the casinos are reprograming eproms to cheat their
patrons at video poker ?

Heres a bit of a news flash. Those casinos dont have to cheat.
97% of all the patrons literally hand over their wallets when they
ride into town. A bad VP player can lose more through unwise
decisions than any slot player. Of the 3% of the players who can
beat VP 1.5 % can only do so marginally. OF the 3% only 2% play
enough to create results that are statistically significant for
their play to be deemed "positive". Of the 3% all of them "fall
down" from time to time by going on tilt , playing bingo or craps,
is a gambling loser or has a significant other that does the same.

Lets look at card counting. card counting came out in the mid 60's.
when Ed Thorp and a guy named Harvey Dubner combined thier methods
into a system. thorps was called the 10 count and dubners was basic
strategy. Now the players had a way to beat the casinos
mathamatically which undeniably worked.

Las vegas was still pretty much of a dusty little town back then.
And we can see how the card counters have ground that dusty little
town down to nothing more than a gas station and a single traffic
light. Bull shit the vegas you see today was built on card counters
and video poker players. More succinctly Bad ones.

Heres my tilt on the VP decline lately. Certain CEO's and
accountants see VP as a sacrificial lamb. VP is a game that can be
beat and they plan on doing the beating. not by playing it but by
using it as a patsy. they say well heres your problem , you have all
these video poker games that can be beat and here are some people
doing it. A quick numbers crunch and a report or two later and its
been "proved". they order the machines yanked and the slot clubs
retooled. Next they stick out their hand and say "Bonus Please"
then "goodbye". Now 3 or so years down the road when those bean
counters and C level exects are long gone as are the winning and the
losing VP players alike the stockholders and owners are wondering ,
WTF happened ? we used to have a hold yea big and now we got bubkis.
We better get some accountants in here and a few new marketing minds
to get us back on track. and lo and behold you start getting the
good games back. the same thing is happening at BJ and surprise
surprise you are starting to see some of the games coming back.
slowly but they are. mostly in the small out of the way joints first.

its a simple cycle we have seen happen in the last 5 years or so.
why are visitor rates down? simple they are down because the casino
bean counters have degraded the games to a point were they players
rarly ever have a winning trip. And we all know you can slaughter a
sheep only once. and if you shave him too close your have a hell of
a time shearing him next season. but the bean counters dont care
about next season because they will be busy shearing someone eles
sheep by then.

But all that aside your job is to find an edge and take advantage of
it. either at VP or at tiddly winks.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@a... wrote:

In a message dated 8/31/2003 7:50:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com writes:

> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:11:51 -0000
> From: "mkl54321" <mkl54321@y...>
> Subject: Final post on this..or any other subject
>

Heres a bit of a news flash. Those casinos dont have to cheat.
97% of all the patrons literally hand over their wallets when they
ride into town. Of the 3% of the players who can
beat VP 1.5 % can only do so marginally. OF the 3% only 2% play
enough to create results that are statistically significant for
their play to be deemed "positive". Of the 3% all of them "fall
down" from time to time by going on tilt , playing bingo or craps,
is a gambling loser or has a significant other that does the same.

If you are going to use precise percentage figures could you please state
the source of said figures? Doesn't have anything to do with the current
close proximity to our sister planet Mars, does it.
                                        Nudge

···

From: "timmer" <timmr21@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Kevin L's theory?

I could quote you the entire article from this months casino
journal . But you probably have already read it.
Lets just say that video pokers elimination has somthing to do with
the intentional dumbing down of the casino customer base. which has
been going on for a few years now.

They are marketing to youngsters today but yesterday it was UMC
boomers

I am the source of these figures which I consider quite accurate.
(unlike my spelling and sentance structure)

From: "timmer" <timmr21@y...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Kevin L's theory?

> Heres a bit of a news flash. Those casinos dont have to cheat.
> 97% of all the patrons literally hand over their wallets when

they

> ride into town. Of the 3% of the players who can
> beat VP 1.5 % can only do so marginally. OF the 3% only 2% play
> enough to create results that are statistically significant for
> their play to be deemed "positive". Of the 3% all of them "fall
> down" from time to time by going on tilt , playing bingo or

craps,

> is a gambling loser or has a significant other that does the

same.

If you are going to use precise percentage figures could you

please state

the source of said figures? Doesn't have anything to do with the

current

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@l...> wrote:

close proximity to our sister planet Mars, does it.
                                        Nudge

From: "timmer" <timmr21@y...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Kevin L's theory?

If you are going to use precise percentage figures could you

please state

the source of said figures? Doesn't have anything to do with the

current

close proximity to our sister planet Mars, does it.

                                         Nudge

I thought our sister planet was Venus.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@l...> wrote:

My observations indicate that more than 99.99% would save money by
mailing a check. They have zero strategy, zero understanding of the
percentages and zero chance of being long term winners.
There are the exceptions (000.001%) who might end up winners.
My discussion eliminates those, who are dealt royals or who draw badly
but tend to win anyhow.

···

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:05:20 -0700, you wrote:

From: "timmer" <timmr21@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Kevin L's theory?

Heres a bit of a news flash. Those casinos dont have to cheat.
97% of all the patrons literally hand over their wallets when they
ride into town. Of the 3% of the players who can
beat VP 1.5 % can only do so marginally. OF the 3% only 2% play
enough to create results that are statistically significant for
their play to be deemed "positive". Of the 3% all of them "fall
down" from time to time by going on tilt , playing bingo or craps,
is a gambling loser or has a significant other that does the same.

If you are going to use precise percentage figures could you please state
the source of said figures? Doesn't have anything to do with the current
close proximity to our sister planet Mars, does it.
                                       Nudge

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/