Reply to my own post.
Go to the radio archive site,http://www.bobdancer.com/radio.cfm, for Bob Nesesesian guest appearance on 9/29/11 at 17:50 of the program for discussion of Silver Mining or Slot Walking. Nesesian's practice is concentrated on gambling issues. From listening to him on 3 programs, as a lawyer, I consider him to be an authoritative source. The information is much different than most posts on the internet.
If my explanation isn't clear, just listen to the program. If you decide that Nesesian is wrong, sue Bob Dancer. (Kidding of course.)
He states that as long as the machine with credits has been abandoned, the other party can cash out the machine without violating the law. The other party cashing out must not have a reasonable belief that the player will return. So if the player moves a few machines down to help his wife or goes to a cash machine while watching the machine, it would be a crime for the other person to cash out the credits.
The money does not belong to the casino. There was a Michigan case where an elderly woman was confined for retrieving a nickel and the casino claimed it was the casino's money. Consistent with the law of abandoned property in private property, the lady won her lawsuit and was awarded $600,000 in punitive damages.
Nesesian believes the law would be the same for money found on the floor but was uncertain. Thought it was not criminal but a civil matter.
If someone who lost money in a machine or on the floor could get the casino through tape to identify the other party, he doesn't think that is a criminal matter. There may be some civil recourse.
This episode also discusses rights in Indian casino, using 2 different identities and id's, refusal to cash/confiscation of chips from "Nnn Patrons" and means to sue a cruise trip.
LA Bum
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "labum63" <labum63@...> wrote:
This reply is only partially relevant and on the primary issue shouldn't be relied on. I was hoping Bob Dancer would remember the episode and provide the answer. I heard all the radio shows Bob referenced and I think Bob Nersesian provided the answer regarding credits left in the machine, and it was different than most of the explanations I have read on vpFREE and VPmail. I think the answer is that money left in a machine can be cashed out by another party from an empty machine, without playing a hand or spin.
Since I may be wrong I will attempt to review the taped radio shows for an answer.
Nesesian talks about a lot of relevant topics. The idea that a casino can kick out a player without reason and "trespass" him has never been decided by the Nevada Supreme Court. There is a federal court case that announced the principle by relying on a book that didn't say that. The Nevada courts have ultimate say over Nevada state law except for a fedeal court striking it on grounds not relevant here. (E.g. Constitutional and preemption grounds.) Of course there was a lower court that held against the casino. I think Tom Robertson was the involved party
Lawyer Nesesian said he would take the case for $10,000 retainer; I think the estimate cost for the entire case was $20.000. So if your inclined and have the money . . .
LA Bum
— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@> wrote:
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> Perhaps an issue for Dancerâs radio show to discuss???
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> We've discussed aspects of this issue twice with Bob Nersesian and once with I Nelson Rose. Possibly also with Bob Loeb.
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> This thread has contains a plethora of different sub-threads. Each legal case is a little different from other cases and sometimes those small differences are critical to the way things were decided.
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> Old shows are archived if someone wishes to revisit one of the shows.
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> Bob
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