vpFREE2 Forums

Jackpot with Different Players Card

#1

--- In vpFREE+AEA-yahoogroups.com, "spartanbuckeye21" <kobj21+AEA-...> wrote:

I have found much better bounce back opportunities available by
spreading my play out over multiple players cards belonging to non
gambling friends and relatives than accumulating it all on my own
card. I generate play on their cards and then when the e-coupons
arrive in the mail, they forward them to me and I cash the e-tickets
at the casino with no need for ID.

I just started using this technique, so I have yet to hit a jackpot on
a machine where I have been using a players card that is not in my
name. Would there be any ramifications if I hit a jackpot requiring a
hand play on a machine with the wrong card? Since they always want
positive photo ID anyway, I don't see this as a major risk, but I'm
not sure. Can they attempt to deny paying a jackpot? Should I remove
the foreign card before the attendant shows up and insert my own? Not
sure that would do much good anyway as I suspect the machine has ID'd
the card that was used when it hit. Perhaps that would raise more
suspicion. If I just leave the relatives or friend's card in the
machine, if the attendant notices and ask why the card in the machine
does match my ID should I just be straight up with them and tell them
I'm using a friend's card?

If anyone has any relevant experience in this area, please advise.

There's a word for what you're doing. It's called "fraud". Sometimes
they'll let you sign and not care, others you get backroomed. Good luck.

#2

Paladin wrote, concerning using someone elses card: There's a word for
what you're doing. It's called "fraud". Sometimes they'll let you sign
and not care, others you get backroomed. Good luck.

That hasn't been my experience. I've played using Shirley's card and
have received hundreds (possibly thousands) of taxable jackpots while
doing so. I explain that Shirley is my favorite wife and usually there
is no problem.

The Palms forbids this and penalizes people for doing it, but almost all
other casinos allow it --- at least insofar as husband-and-wife go. (In
Missouri there are state laws, actively enforced, which make doing this
a no-no).

I've heard of players with a dozen different cards at various
promotions, and these folks generally get 86'd eventually --- as Paladin
suggested. But for husband and wife, it's usually not a problem.

It is probably against the rules of every slot club to do this --- but
usually it is not enforced. You always run the risk of it being enforced
selectively and retroactively. And you have no legal grounds to stand on
if they do this.

#3

Generally, husband/wife is ok (and should be by operation of law in
community property states like NV and CA), but the poster wasn't going
in that direction with his question. MO you must enter the casino with
your own card (they swipe it as you enter).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:

Paladin wrote, concerning using someone elses card: There's a word for
what you're doing. It's called "fraud". Sometimes they'll let you sign
and not care, others you get backroomed. Good luck.

That hasn't been my experience. I've played using Shirley's card and
have received hundreds (possibly thousands) of taxable jackpots while
doing so. I explain that Shirley is my favorite wife and usually there
is no problem.

The Palms forbids this and penalizes people for doing it, but almost all
other casinos allow it --- at least insofar as husband-and-wife go. (In
Missouri there are state laws, actively enforced, which make doing this
a no-no).

I've heard of players with a dozen different cards at various
promotions, and these folks generally get 86'd eventually --- as Paladin
suggested. But for husband and wife, it's usually not a problem.

It is probably against the rules of every slot club to do this --- but
usually it is not enforced. You always run the risk of it being enforced
selectively and retroactively. And you have no legal grounds to stand on
if they do this.

#4

What does the Palms do to you ?

···

-----Original Message-----
  From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Bob Dancer
  Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:59 PM
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Jackpot with Different Players Card

  Paladin wrote, concerning using someone elses card: There's a word for
  what you're doing. It's called "fraud". Sometimes they'll let you sign
  and not care, others you get backroomed. Good luck.

  That hasn't been my experience. I've played using Shirley's card and
  have received hundreds (possibly thousands) of taxable jackpots while
  doing so. I explain that Shirley is my favorite wife and usually there
  is no problem.

  The Palms forbids this and penalizes people for doing it, but almost all
  other casinos allow it --- at least insofar as husband-and-wife go. (In
  Missouri there are state laws, actively enforced, which make doing this
  a no-no).

  I've heard of players with a dozen different cards at various
  promotions, and these folks generally get 86'd eventually --- as Paladin
  suggested. But for husband and wife, it's usually not a problem.

  It is probably against the rules of every slot club to do this --- but
  usually it is not enforced. You always run the risk of it being enforced
  selectively and retroactively. And you have no legal grounds to stand on
  if they do this.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

I know of at least three casinos where husband and wife are allowed,
even encouraged, to play on the same card. Two are in Reno; the
Peppermill and the Atlantis. I believe that Silver Legacy also
subscribes to this policy. The other casino is the Golden Nugget in
LV. In all three of those venues both EH and I have the same card
club number, on separate cards, inscribed with each of our names.
~Babe~

···

====================================================
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:

........It is probably against the rules of every slot club to do
this --- but usually it is not enforced. You always run the risk of it
being enforced selectively and retroactively. And you have no legal
grounds to stand on if they do this.

#6

doing this a no-no).

Not entirely accurate. I have personally confirmed with the MO Gaming
Commission (Agent Bailey) that playing on my wife's card is not
breaking any laws.

What IS actively enforced is buying in, or entering the casino, on
someone else's card. If you get busted doing this you could get you
tossed, or worse (search Missouri State Representative and Isle of
Capri Boonville)

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:

(In Missouri there are state laws, actively enforced, which make

#7

Richard asked: What does the Palms do to you ?

I've been told by the former slot director, Don Hallmark, that it wasn't
allowed. When he left the Palms employ, I questioned the GM, Jim Hughes,
whether it was a Palms rule or a Don Hallmark rule. I told him that if
allowed, I would play on Shirley's card because she has health problems
at the moment and can't be in casinos. He told me it was against Palms
rules and that they have taken action against players who disregarded
this rule.

I "got the message." Exactly what actions were taken (which is what
Richard was asking) was not specified. In my personal situation, I
assume that in every casino there are at least some managers who would
prefer that I don't play there, and so I am careful not to give them any
special reason to kick me out. So when I'm asked not to do something by
the GM, I don't.

Bob Dancer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Paladingamingllc is correct, this is a fraud. In
order for something to be a fraud the three elements
of the fraud triangle must exist - motive,
rationalization, and opportunity.

Bill
Palms Moderator and Certified Fraud Examiner

--- paladingamingllc <paladingamingllc@yahoo.com>
wrote:

···

--- In vpFREE+AEA-yahoogroups.com,
"spartanbuckeye21" <kobj21+AEA-...> wrote:
>
> I have found much better bounce back opportunities
available by
> spreading my play out over multiple players cards
belonging to non
> gambling friends and relatives than accumulating
it all on my own
> card. I generate play on their cards and then
when the e-coupons
> arrive in the mail, they forward them to me and I
cash the e-tickets
> at the casino with no need for ID.
>
> I just started using this technique, so I have yet
to hit a jackpot on
> a machine where I have been using a players card
that is not in my
> name. Would there be any ramifications if I hit a
jackpot requiring a
> hand play on a machine with the wrong card? Since
they always want
> positive photo ID anyway, I don't see this as a
major risk, but I'm
> not sure. Can they attempt to deny paying a
jackpot? Should I remove
> the foreign card before the attendant shows up and
insert my own? Not
> sure that would do much good anyway as I suspect
the machine has ID'd
> the card that was used when it hit. Perhaps that
would raise more
> suspicion. If I just leave the relatives or
friend's card in the
> machine, if the attendant notices and ask why the
card in the machine
> does match my ID should I just be straight up with
them and tell them
> I'm using a friend's card?
>
> If anyone has any relevant experience in this
area, please advise.

There's a word for what you're doing. It's called
"fraud". Sometimes
they'll let you sign and not care, others you get
backroomed. Good luck.

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

#9

Recently, the Palms ran a drawing promotion where if you swiped to enter
before 6:50 pm, $5 in free play was loaded on the card after the drawing.

As I was sitting at a machine, I saw someone sit next to me with a thick
stack of cards - and he was putting in each card, downloading the free play,
playing it off and cashing out. He must have done this, seriously, 15 to 20
times in a row. And not the least bit discretely at all.

I was absolutely stunned at the guy's audacity.

···

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Bob Dancer <bdancer@compdance.com> wrote:

The Palms forbids this and penalizes people for doing it, but almost all
other casinos allow it --- at least insofar as husband-and-wife go. (In
Missouri there are state laws, actively enforced, which make doing this
a no-no).

I've heard of players with a dozen different cards at various
promotions, and these folks generally get 86'd eventually --- as Paladin
suggested. But for husband and wife, it's usually not a problem.

--
Jay Fenster
Open Road Publishing
* * *
Author, Open Road's Best of Las Vegas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

Recently, the Palms ran a drawing promotion where if you swiped to

enter

before 6:50 pm, $5 in free play was loaded on the card after the

drawing.

As I was sitting at a machine, I saw someone sit next to me with a

thick

stack of cards - and he was putting in each card, downloading the

free play,

playing it off and cashing out. He must have done this, seriously,

15 to 20

times in a row. And not the least bit discretely at all.

I was absolutely stunned at the guy's audacity.

This same phenomenon accurred at Mandalay Bay shortly after they
opened. If you ran so much action you got $5 freeplay the next day.
The money went up at 6:00 am. When you were playing one of their
machines with card in the border of the card reader turned green. If
you quit playing for awhile the border would turn red. Because of this
you could see an abandoned machine with a card in it from halfway
across the casino.

There were a few guys walking around picking up cards then running them
for the freeplay the next morning.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Fenster" <gambling@...> wrote:

#11

Why isn't this just plain old stealing?? And for what, a few bucks?

Jay Fenster <gambling@swina.com> wrote: Recently, the Palms ran a drawing promotion where if you swiped to enter
before 6:50 pm, $5 in free play was loaded on the card after the drawing.

As I was sitting at a machine, I saw someone sit next to me with a thick
stack of cards - and he was putting in each card, downloading the free play,
playing it off and cashing out. He must have done this, seriously, 15 to 20
times in a row. And not the least bit discretely at all.

I was absolutely stunned at the guy's audacity.

···

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Bob Dancer <bdancer@compdance.com> wrote:

>
> The Palms forbids this and penalizes people for doing it, but almost all
> other casinos allow it --- at least insofar as husband-and-wife go. (In
> Missouri there are state laws, actively enforced, which make doing this
> a no-no).
>
> I've heard of players with a dozen different cards at various
> promotions, and these folks generally get 86'd eventually --- as Paladin
> suggested. But for husband and wife, it's usually not a problem.
>

--
Jay Fenster
Open Road Publishing
* * *
Author, Open Road's Best of Las Vegas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#12

I interpret it this way. If you win a jackpot, the casino has to pay. If the points earned from your play were on someone's card other than yourself (excepting spouses, significant others, roomates at the same address etc where they allow it in many cases) they probably have the right to subtract the points earned. Of course, there are people who don't even bother to use cards and will sit down at a machine with someone else's card already there and not realize it until the attendant has to pull it to put in his or her card to notify the computer of a jackpot to pay. Also, you might be in town with a friend and carry all the cards for convenience and accidentally put in the other person's card. But in summary, the jackpot they have to pay, but if th epoints are not earned properly, I don't the GCB would have any problem with the casino subtracting off the account the points not earned by the rightful card owner.
Wild Bill <wcimo@yahoo.com> wrote: Paladingamingllc is correct, this is a fraud. In
order for something to be a fraud the three elements
of the fraud triangle must exist - motive,
rationalization, and opportunity.

Bill
Palms Moderator and Certified Fraud Examiner

--- paladingamingllc <paladingamingllc@yahoo.com>
wrote:

···

--- In vpFREE+AEA-yahoogroups.com,
"spartanbuckeye21" <kobj21+AEA-...> wrote:
>
> I have found much better bounce back opportunities
available by
> spreading my play out over multiple players cards
belonging to non
> gambling friends and relatives than accumulating
it all on my own
> card. I generate play on their cards and then
when the e-coupons
> arrive in the mail, they forward them to me and I
cash the e-tickets
> at the casino with no need for ID.
>
> I just started using this technique, so I have yet
to hit a jackpot on
> a machine where I have been using a players card
that is not in my
> name. Would there be any ramifications if I hit a
jackpot requiring a
> hand play on a machine with the wrong card? Since
they always want
> positive photo ID anyway, I don't see this as a
major risk, but I'm
> not sure. Can they attempt to deny paying a
jackpot? Should I remove
> the foreign card before the attendant shows up and
insert my own? Not
> sure that would do much good anyway as I suspect
the machine has ID'd
> the card that was used when it hit. Perhaps that
would raise more
> suspicion. If I just leave the relatives or
friend's card in the
> machine, if the attendant notices and ask why the
card in the machine
> does match my ID should I just be straight up with
them and tell them
> I'm using a friend's card?
>
> If anyone has any relevant experience in this
area, please advise.

There's a word for what you're doing. It's called
"fraud". Sometimes
they'll let you sign and not care, others you get
backroomed. Good luck.

__________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#13

This is a good answer. Play by the rules but this goes both ways. Both the casino and the player should follow them. If the player earns the money no excuses by the casino for not paying. If the player doesn't go by the rules, understandably the casino can refuse to pay, final authority as referee being the GCB. There are so many ways to gain cash and comps without doing anything wrong, thus why try? Best suggestion,ask when you sign up what the rules are for different people playing together. Sometimes it is a very gray area.
  Example:
   
  Sometimes 2 of us would play together from a common bankroll and change seats each time a certain pay came up (FH, 4K etc) and we would try to remember to make sure
  that the right card was in each time. If we forgot, then what?

···

Bob Dancer <bdancer@compdance.com> wrote:
          Richard asked: What does the Palms do to you ?

I've been told by the former slot director, Don Hallmark, that it wasn't
allowed. When he left the Palms employ, I questioned the GM, Jim Hughes,
whether it was a Palms rule or a Don Hallmark rule. I told him that if
allowed, I would play on Shirley's card because she has health problems
at the moment and can't be in casinos. He told me it was against Palms
rules and that they have taken action against players who disregarded
this rule.

I "got the message." Exactly what actions were taken (which is what
Richard was asking) was not specified. In my personal situation, I
assume that in every casino there are at least some managers who would
prefer that I don't play there, and so I am careful not to give them any
special reason to kick me out. So when I'm asked not to do something by
the GM, I don't.

Bob Dancer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

I have had similar experiences. When redeeming stuff at the Frontier, my room mate and I never had any problems since we have the same address, and the slot club people even told us that it made no difference whether we had one card or two. We chose separate accounts due the fact that we often did not travel to Vegas at the same time due work and other reasons. If we accidentally mixed up the cards in the machine when playing together, we never had a problem. frequently we would swap machines on my room mates request because luck was poor for him (I realize it makes no difference but there is always the psychological concern) and we would forget to swap the cards. Since we have always been honest with the casinos we have never had a problem in this regard.

Bob Dancer <bdancer@compdance.com> wrote: Paladin wrote, concerning using someone elses card: There's a word for
what you're doing. It's called "fraud". Sometimes they'll let you sign
and not care, others you get backroomed. Good luck.

That hasn't been my experience. I've played using Shirley's card and
have received hundreds (possibly thousands) of taxable jackpots while
doing so. I explain that Shirley is my favorite wife and usually there
is no problem.

The Palms forbids this and penalizes people for doing it, but almost all
other casinos allow it --- at least insofar as husband-and-wife go. (In
Missouri there are state laws, actively enforced, which make doing this
a no-no).

I've heard of players with a dozen different cards at various
promotions, and these folks generally get 86'd eventually --- as Paladin
suggested. But for husband and wife, it's usually not a problem.

It is probably against the rules of every slot club to do this --- but
usually it is not enforced. You always run the risk of it being enforced
selectively and retroactively. And you have no legal grounds to stand on
if they do this.

···

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

--- my wife and i often play on one card. we have seperate accounts
but want to keep our theo's high. 3 times she hit jackpots with my
card in. two of those were on the same day and she didn't have her id
with her and they would not pay me since she hit the jackpots. our
host came down and verified who she was and they paid her. they
didn't care whose card was in. on the third time we changed seats so
they would pay me. it took a while for the payoff and they asked me
if i had hit it because the tapes showed it was my wife. i explained
regarding the cards and they said they don't care whose card is in
the have to pay the person who actually won. basically, he said they
could care less if you play on a different card and they will still
pay the player who won
mel

I interpret it this way. If you win a jackpot, the casino has to

pay. If the points earned from your play were on someone's card other
than yourself (excepting spouses, significant others, roomates at the
same address etc where they allow it in many cases) they probably
have the right to subtract the points earned. Of course, there are
people who don't even bother to use cards and will sit down at a
machine with someone else's card already there and not realize it
until the attendant has to pull it to put in his or her card to
notify the computer of a jackpot to pay. Also, you might be in town
with a friend and carry all the cards for convenience and
accidentally put in the other person's card. But in summary, the
jackpot they have to pay, but if th epoints are not earned properly,
I don't the GCB would have any problem with the casino subtracting
off the account the points not earned by the rightful card owner.

Wild Bill <wcimo@...> wrote: Paladingamingllc is correct,

this is a fraud. In

order for something to be a fraud the three elements
of the fraud triangle must exist - motive,
rationalization, and opportunity.

Bill
Palms Moderator and Certified Fraud Examiner

--- paladingamingllc <paladingamingllc@...>
wrote:

> --- In vpFREE+AEA-yahoogroups.com,
> "spartanbuckeye21" <kobj21+AEA-...> wrote:
> >
> > I have found much better bounce back opportunities
> available by
> > spreading my play out over multiple players cards
> belonging to non
> > gambling friends and relatives than accumulating
> it all on my own
> > card. I generate play on their cards and then
> when the e-coupons
> > arrive in the mail, they forward them to me and I
> cash the e-tickets
> > at the casino with no need for ID.
> >
> > I just started using this technique, so I have yet
> to hit a jackpot on
> > a machine where I have been using a players card
> that is not in my
> > name. Would there be any ramifications if I hit a
> jackpot requiring a
> > hand play on a machine with the wrong card? Since
> they always want
> > positive photo ID anyway, I don't see this as a
> major risk, but I'm
> > not sure. Can they attempt to deny paying a
> jackpot? Should I remove
> > the foreign card before the attendant shows up and
> insert my own? Not
> > sure that would do much good anyway as I suspect
> the machine has ID'd
> > the card that was used when it hit. Perhaps that
> would raise more
> > suspicion. If I just leave the relatives or
> friend's card in the
> > machine, if the attendant notices and ask why the
> card in the machine
> > does match my ID should I just be straight up with
> them and tell them
> > I'm using a friend's card?
> >
> > If anyone has any relevant experience in this
> area, please advise.
>
> There's a word for what you're doing. It's called
> "fraud". Sometimes
> they'll let you sign and not care, others you get
> backroomed. Good luck.
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

---------------------------------
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Try it now.

···

In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]