vpFREE2 Forums

Jackpot with different cards

First, if you are playing with cards that aren't yours, you don't want to be
obvious about it. A player was recently banned because of this. Should you
win a jackpot while playing with someone else's cards, their win/loss
statement may show this as a win, and will show all your play on their card.
Assuming you were to hit a taxable jackpot, you could just remove the offending
card before someone comes to pay you and hand them your ID and social security
number. Or leave the offending card in, and when they come to pay you, hand
them your ID, if they notice the card just say, "oh, that isn't mine, I don't
usually play with a card." But of course in either case it is possible you
could get in trouble.

I do sometimes play with my husband's card. I have never had a problem with
it, even if I hit a W2G (even at the Palms). If I hit while his card is in,
I usually say "Oh I was playing with my husband's card" - I have already
taken his card out of the machine, and I hand them my ID and my players card.
Normally the W2G will come out correctly labeled to me. One time it came out
in my husband's name, and I asked for a correction, which was done. But I
have noticed on win/loss statements that often that W2G amount is listed on my
husband's win loss statement as a "jackpot" rather than on mine.

If you are consistently playing with other people's cards, you are more
likely to get into trouble, so I wouldn't advise you to do this.

Also, you won't be getting the comps or mailers for yourself. Presumably
your friends could claim comps, but not you.

Also, usually the more you play at a casino, the more comps you will get.
It could well be that you would be better off just to play a lot more under
your own name, and you'll (in the long run) get more in comps and cashback that
way.

And instead of playing with different cards at one casino, you could be
easily just as well off to play under your own card at several casinos, each with
different promotions. This would give you all the comps and eliminate any
possibility that you are going to get into trouble. Playing under your own
name eliminates any fraud you might be doing.

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First, if you are playing with cards that aren't yours, you don't

want to be

obvious about it.

Yes, especially since casinos are now subject to the "Bank Secrecy
Act". You don't necessarily have to identify yourself in all
situations (sadly you do in many more than you used to), but falsely
identifying yourself is a big no-no in the eyes of current law. Read
Nersesian's "Beat the Players" for details.

Also, usually the more you play at a casino, the more comps you will

get.

Lately, marketing has been to low rollers. Beyond a certain point,
additional play has little or even negative value.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, misscraps@... wrote:

Thanks for the many responses to my original query. It seems there is a
consensus that using a spouse's card is not likely to cause much of an
issue, but it is a bit grayer when using someone else's card whether a
friend or relative. In any event I do not propose using anyone's card
that has not willingly offered it to me for use and that I know
personally. Nor do I have an entire cache of them like some people
referred to in the various responses.

I did not hear anyone specifically mention that they have ever had
experience in getting a hand pay denied. This is my biggest fear. The
Royal comes infrequently enough, that losing one to the "wrong card"
would certainly negate any advantage from accumulating bounce back on
multiple accounts. I suppose a call to gaming in the jurisdiction might
be the best way to verify what are the possible consequences. If the
casino takes counter measure with the slot club benefits for this
practice, so be it. That is a risk I can manage.

This following response from Miss Craps raised a few topics that I
thought I would comment on further.

Thanks!
SB

misscraps@... wrote:

First, if you are playing with cards that aren't yours, you don't want

to be

obvious about it. A player was recently banned because of this.

Should you

win a jackpot while playing with someone else's cards, their win/loss
statement may show this as a win, and will show all your play on their

card.

Assuming you were to hit a taxable jackpot, you could just remove the

offending

card before someone comes to pay you and hand them your ID and social

security

number. Or leave the offending card in, and when they come to pay

you, hand

them your ID, if they notice the card just say, "oh, that isn't mine,

I don't

usually play with a card." But of course in either case it is

possible you

could get in trouble.

Good advice. Discretion is the better part of valor. I avoid cashing
coupons in the same machine for different accounts. For that matter I
move to a different area entirely before processing another. I also
avoid using the same redemption terminal too to get the cash for the
TITO. If (when?) I hit a hand pay with another card, I would plan to
remove it. I don't think I'd go as far as to insert my own card, but
I'd probably offer my card and my ID to the attendant when they came by.
Unless they pressed me on the issue, I'd offer no information about a
foreign card.

I do sometimes play with my husband's card. I have never had a

problem with

it, even if I hit a W2G (even at the Palms). If I hit while his card

is in,

I usually say "Oh I was playing with my husband's card" - I have

already

taken his card out of the machine, and I hand them my ID and my

players card.

Normally the W2G will come out correctly labeled to me. One time it

came out

in my husband's name, and I asked for a correction, which was done.

But I

have noticed on win/loss statements that often that W2G amount is

listed on my

husband's win loss statement as a "jackpot" rather than on mine.

Seems to be a fairly safe playing using the wife's card. Sometimes she
is with me, but more often than not she is at home watching the kids.
I'm pretty sure the W2-G will be correctly issued to the person playing
the machine. That's the reason they ask for ID to confirm that you are
who you say you are. I would hope that would take precedent over a
players card. Then again if they somehow try to deny the jackpot based
on the mismatch, I would be very concerned. I need to make a call to
the local gaming control to verify for myself the options. As for
win/loss statements, I'm not concerned about those. My gambling log
includes the amount of play wagered by the particular card I used. I'm
positive the IRS could care less about what card was used so log as I
report all of my income.

If you are consistently playing with other people's cards, you are

more

likely to get into trouble, so I wouldn't advise you to do this.

By far the lions share of my play still is on my own card. For example
in a recent session I put about $55K on my card, about $11K on my wife's
and about $8K on my mother-in-laws card. I started out playing 2
machines, but after a certain point I played the cards sequentially on
different machines, as I'm not used to playing 2 machines and I found
my hourly hands rate to be less effective bouncing between 2 screens.

Also, you won't be getting the comps or mailers for yourself.

Presumably

your friends could claim comps, but not you.

I could care less about the comps at the local stores. I'm already at
the point where I get free rooms, food and golf every day I want it.
For the local store where I'm employing this techniques, it's all about
the $$.

Also, usually the more you play at a casino, the more comps you will

get.

It could well be that you would be better off just to play a lot more

under

your own name, and you'll (in the long run) get more in comps and

cashback that

way.

In this particular case this assumption was one that I originally
maintained too, but turns out is flat out wrong at this store in
question. The intricacies of the bounce back programs are often
difficult to decipher. I've shared some info with friends for
comparison, but I get the best data when I collect it myself on the
various cards I use. A single visit in February for my "mother-in-law"
with 12K coin in generated weekly coupons in the amount of $80. In the
same month I put in $200K over 4 visits and got back $110 per week.
Obviously the demographic of my mother-in-law being a Senior and
perhaps because she is not local causes them to offer incentives to her
at a rate that is nearly 20 times my bounce back offer.

Again, for my purposes comps are secondary. I'm a card counter first
and foremost, but the BJ sucks in my area, plus I've all but been backed
off locally. Half shoeing is often the norm when I attempt to play. So
I started playing VP heavily in the last year or so. I like VP for the
lack of harassment and I limit my play to days when the direct slot club
cash back multipliers drive the game I play positive or if a progressive
gets to my paying threshold. The bounce back is not directly figured
into my decision to play, but nonetheless is another important component
in my total return. It certainly has been my experience that the best
advantage play from bounce back is not by accumulating all play on one
account. Maybe for safety I'll just limit my extra play to my wife's
card and milk the other mailers from the remaining cards until they dry
up from lack of play.

And instead of playing with different cards at one casino, you could

be

easily just as well off to play under your own card at several

casinos, each with

different promotions. This would give you all the comps and eliminate

any

possibility that you are going to get into trouble. Playing under

your own

name eliminates any fraud you might be doing.

The local venues near me don't offer many opportunities for attacking
promotions. In fact there is only one that offers decent cash back with
multipliers. If the advertised direct cash back plus the base machine
pay table don't make the play >100%, I don't have much desire to play.
Most of the other close stores either have crappy CB or crappy pay
tables. As for out of town casinos, most offers I can't use as my
schedule does not permit returning when the casino offers them.

spartanbuckeye21 wrote:

Thanks for the many responses to my original query. It seems there
is a consensus that using a spouse's card is not likely to cause much
of an issue, but it is a bit grayer when using someone else's card
whether a friend or relative. In any event I do not propose using
anyone's card that has not willingly offered it to me for use and
that I know personally. Nor do I have an entire cache of them like
some people referred to in the various responses.

I did not hear anyone specifically mention that they have ever had
experience in getting a hand pay denied. This is my biggest fear.

You likely realize at this point that there isn't too much to belabor
here. Most slot clubs either allow or turn a blind eye to play on a
spouse's card. But a casino isn't likely to look kindly upon use of
any other player's card, including those of relatives and
acquaintances. There's an immediate presumption to be made that
you're looking to avail yourself of benefits that aren't due to you
yourself.

Be observed doing so on an incidental basis, and a casino may take
notice but is unlikely to take any action. Be seen to do abusively
and you invite an adverse response.

I don't know specifics, but I don't imagine that a casino can refuse
to pay a legitimate jackpot simply because you played on another's
card. They can, of course, rescind any player benefits for all
accounts involved and, in those jurisdictions permitting, ban you from
the premises.

I think you're prudent in suggesting a course of action that you
simply remove the player's card upon a reportable win and present your
own (requesting a correction to the W-2G if it should be inaccurately
issued).

In any case, playing on another's card (aside from a spouse) is a
violation of most card club rules. If you do so, you clearly weigh
the benefits as being stronger than the potential penalty and are
comfortable with the ethics.

- Harry

My GF was using my card while playing at Sam's Town at the Stage Coach
bar upstairs and hit a progressive Royal. When the guy mentioned it
wasn't her card, I reached in my back pocket and pulled out hers and
said I must have given her the wrong card. There was no problem and she
got paid although they switched the credit for the Royal to her card.

How could they not pay you after hitting a royal? Suppose you sat down
and there was someone else's card in the machine and you didn't notice
and started playing and hit a royal. Obviously you didn't know it
wasn't your card when you sat down and didn't know the person, how
could they take the royal away from you? They can't and I would call
gaming if they tried to.

Robert Levine:

My GF was using my card while playing at Sam's Town at the Stage Coach
bar upstairs and hit a progressive Royal. When the guy mentioned it
wasn't her card, I reached in my back pocket and pulled out hers and
said I must have given her the wrong card. There was no problem and she
got paid although they switched the credit for the Royal to her card.

How could they not pay you after hitting a royal? Suppose you sat down
and there was someone else's card in the machine and you didn't notice
and started playing and hit a royal. Obviously you didn't know it
wasn't your card when you sat down and didn't know the person, how
could they take the royal away from you? They can't and I would call
gaming if they tried to.

Many years ago, I hit a jackpot at a casino at which I had been 86ed.
After an unusually long time of not being paid, they came back with a
picture of me and asked me if it was me. I told them it was. They gave
me the choice of leaving or they'd call the police. I told them I'd
like to get paid for my jackpot. They paid me while the police were on
their way. Something very similar happened to me years later. At
first, they said they weren't going to pay me because I had been 86ed,
but, based largely on the aforementioned experience, I confidently
assured them that I would be talking to the Gaming Commission if they
didn't, and, although not necessarily because of my "threat," they
changed their minds and paid me. I can't imagine a casino in Nevada
trying to not pay a jackpot just for having someone else's card in the
machine at the time. I did that recently and the fact that someone
else's card was in the machine was mentioned, but nothing was done
about it.

There are 2 separate issues here. If you win a jackpot (as long as you are at least 21, otherwise GCB has told casinos NOT to pay if underage) they have to pay you. If the wrong card is in the machine, they have to right to fix the situation; however their opinion of of what is right may differ with yours, what is ethical, what is most customer service friendly, etc. Of course, even card issues can be referred the GCB but you could also be dealt 2 sequential royals in a row.

007 <007@embarqmail.com> wrote: Robert Levine:

>My GF was using my card while playing at Sam's Town at the Stage Coach
>bar upstairs and hit a progressive Royal. When the guy mentioned it
>wasn't her card, I reached in my back pocket and pulled out hers and
>said I must have given her the wrong card. There was no problem and she
>got paid although they switched the credit for the Royal to her card.
>
>How could they not pay you after hitting a royal? Suppose you sat down
>and there was someone else's card in the machine and you didn't notice
>and started playing and hit a royal. Obviously you didn't know it
>wasn't your card when you sat down and didn't know the person, how
>could they take the royal away from you? They can't and I would call
>gaming if they tried to.

Many years ago, I hit a jackpot at a casino at which I had been 86ed.
After an unusually long time of not being paid, they came back with a
picture of me and asked me if it was me. I told them it was. They gave
me the choice of leaving or they'd call the police. I told them I'd
like to get paid for my jackpot. They paid me while the police were on
their way. Something very similar happened to me years later. At
first, they said they weren't going to pay me because I had been 86ed,
but, based largely on the aforementioned experience, I confidently
assured them that I would be talking to the Gaming Commission if they
didn't, and, although not necessarily because of my "threat," they
changed their minds and paid me. I can't imagine a casino in Nevada
trying to not pay a jackpot just for having someone else's card in the
machine at the time. I did that recently and the fact that someone
else's card was in the machine was mentioned, but nothing was done
about it.

···

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