vpFREE2 Forums

Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?

#1

On last week's radio show, Frank alluded to Indian Casinos and basically rigged
machines. I'm not sure how, but he came to the conclusion that the machines he
played are unregulated and unfair.

Has any one else drawn the same conclusions?

I have spent the last 5 months playing at various Indian casinos all across
California and have had particularly bad results. However, I still want to
believe the games are fair.

Harrah's Rincon has been particularly brutal to me where I've played $45K worth
of 9/6 Jacks or better over the past month and a half and am down $5,200. I
have never received a royal flush in an Indian casino nor any hand paid
jackpot._

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

The regulars I know who play at the Indian Casinos in Southern
California all say that things have tightened way up in the last
year, and that they never win at anything.

Of course, they are the same people who play hunches and
slot machines without any thought of advantage play...

But the word is comps are nonexistent for most live (card)
poker players and that winning is rare on slots or VP.

What do I know, I play math only.

But that's what the 'feel' guys are ALL saying.

···

--- On Thu, 3/10/11, Natalie Bindner <flyer_gurl_09@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Natalie Bindner <flyer_gurl_09@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, harrahscasinos@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 1:10 AM

On last week's radio show, Frank alluded to Indian Casinos and basically rigged
machines. I'm not sure how, but he came to the conclusion that the machines he
played are unregulated and unfair.

Has any one else drawn the same conclusions?

I have spent the last 5 months playing at various Indian casinos all across
California and have had particularly bad results. However, I still want to
believe the games are fair.

Harrah's Rincon has been particularly brutal to me where I've played $45K worth
of 9/6 Jacks or better over the past month and a half and am down $5,200. I
have never received a royal flush in an Indian casino nor any hand paid
jackpot._

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

On last week's radio show, Frank alluded to Indian Casinos and basically rigged
machines. I'm not sure how, but he came to the conclusion that the machines he
played are unregulated and unfair.

Has any one else drawn the same conclusions?

I heard Frank make that comment and I meant to confront him with it on this board, and then I forgot. I think it may have been a tad irresponsible. Maybe Bob needs to have Frank sit in the corner during tomorrow's show.

I have spent the last 5 months playing at various Indian casinos all across
California and have had particularly bad results. However, I still want to
believe the games are fair.

From what I've seen, in Class III Indian casinos in California, it has to be fair. The majority of machines are IGT, first of all, and there's just no incentive for them to "rig" anything. Of course, some places might have their slots set to very big holds, but they're not "rigged". And for video poker, what you see is what you get, regarding the visible pay table.

Harrah's Rincon has been particularly brutal to me where I've played $45K worth
of 9/6 Jacks or better over the past month and a half and am down $5,200. I
have never received a royal flush in an Indian casino nor any hand paid
jackpot._

What denomination are you playing? If you're playing for dollars, then being down $5200 is nothing. If playing for quarters, then you've had bad luck, but $45K worth of quarter play is not a big sample, and not surprising either way that you have not had a royal yet.

If you're in the Southern Calif. area, I would say you can rest assured the machines are legit.

Maybe you should call Frank up on the show tonight and give him a piece of your mind. Maybe his comment jinxed you. lol

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Natalie Bindner <flyer_gurl_09@...> wrote:

#4

How in the world would anyone know? Those casinos do not issue independently conducted CPA audits.

···

On 3/10/2011 5:34 AM, bobbartop wrote:

If you're in the Southern Calif. area, I would say you can rest assured the machines are legit.

#5

I don't know anything for sure, but I would guess that a legitimate company like IGT is not going to let any Indian casino taint their reputation.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, MHS <mspevack@...> wrote:

On 3/10/2011 5:34 AM, bobbartop wrote:
>
> If you're in the Southern Calif. area, I would say you can rest
> assured the machines are legit.
>
How in the world would anyone know? Those casinos do not issue
independently conducted CPA audits.

#6

I,m not sure about Ca. I played at the Hard Rock in Fla., which is an indian casino. The vp machines are (were) bingo machines. The draw button said "draw/daub" on it. After the fact I was told that no matter if you held the proper cards or discarded them all, it would make no difference at all in the final outcome. If you were "meant" to get a straight, flush, etc., that's what you got. I can't confirm that this is true or not; but I will never go back to a place that has "bingo" machines again. Good luck to all-- Billfrompa.

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Natalie Bindner
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com ; harrahscasinos@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:10 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?

#7

the video poker machines in florida are no longer bingo type ... they are class 3 las vegas-style

as best as i can tell they are legitimate, igt nevada-manufactured machines and are honest

···

From: Natalie Bindner

  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com ; harrahscasinos@yahoogroups.com

  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:10 AM

  Subject: [vpFREE] Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?

  I,m not sure about Ca. I played at the Hard Rock in Fla., which is an indian casino. The vp machines are (were) bingo machines. The draw button said "draw/daub" on it. After the fact I was told that no matter if you held the proper cards or discarded them all, it would make no difference at all in the final outcome. If you were "meant" to get a straight, flush, etc., that's what you got. I can't confirm that this is true or not; but I will never go back to a place that has "bingo" machines again. Good luck to all-- Billfrompa.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Thanks for the new info. Guess I shouldn't worry about getting robbed down there anymore. Good luck. Billfrompa.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: bo bonita
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 9:41 AM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?

  the video poker machines in florida are no longer bingo type ... they are class 3 las vegas-style

  as best as i can tell they are legitimate, igt nevada-manufactured machines and are honest

  From: Natalie Bindner

  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com ; harrahscasinos@yahoogroups.com

  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:10 AM

  Subject: [vpFREE] Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?

  I,m not sure about Ca. I played at the Hard Rock in Fla., which is an indian casino. The vp machines are (were) bingo machines. The draw button said "draw/daub" on it. After the fact I was told that no matter if you held the proper cards or discarded them all, it would make no difference at all in the final outcome. If you were "meant" to get a straight, flush, etc., that's what you got. I can't confirm that this is true or not; but I will never go back to a place that has "bingo" machines again. Good luck to all-- Billfrompa.

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

i play at a local indian casino when I visit my home at the lake. Generally I would play for fun, not investing serious bankroll, or play to explore a different system of play and money management. My understanding is that they are not regulated and so the old adage of "buyer beware" bears some thought. (or maybe VP players beware).

What I have noticed is that they (the casino) will adjust the pay tables during times of expected high activity, such as a holiday weekend. Magically, 9/6 JOB one weekend (if you can find one) becomes 7/5 or worse. The other thing that I noticed is adjustments to the payout on the paytable. Jacks or better return 1 unit, two pair generally return 2 with threes bring home 3. The adjustment becomes that both 2 pair and threes only bring home 2 units. This is something that also gets adjusted during peak action.

One really has to search for a machine that has a decent pay table.

by the way, i have not hit a royal yet.. however I was sitting next to a player that hit a royal on $1 JOB after 15 minutes of play. Claims he hits them all the time. That has been the only royal i have seen.

···

--- On Thu, 3/10/11, Natalie Bindner <flyer_gurl_09@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Natalie Bindner <flyer_gurl_09@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, harrahscasinos@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 1:10 AM

      On last week's radio show, Frank alluded to Indian Casinos and basically rigged

machines. I'm not sure how, but he came to the conclusion that the machines he

played are unregulated and unfair.

Has any one else drawn the same conclusions?

I have spent the last 5 months playing at various Indian casinos all across

California and have had particularly bad results. However, I still want to

believe the games are fair.

Harrah's Rincon has been particularly brutal to me where I've played $45K worth

of 9/6 Jacks or better over the past month and a half and am down $5,200. I

have never received a royal flush in an Indian casino nor any hand paid

jackpot._

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

I also want to know.. how does one know if a indian casino is legit? That is not to say that they are not. but who regulates them. It is my understanding that they are not regulated. the only constant that I see is they are igt machines and that carries some weight of course, but who actually regulates them.

···

--- On Thu, 3/10/11, MHS <mspevack@optonline.net> wrote:

From: MHS <mspevack@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 AM

      On 3/10/2011 5:34 AM, bobbartop wrote:

If you're in the Southern Calif. area, I would say you can rest

assured the machines are legit.

How in the world would anyone know? Those casinos do not issue

independently conducted CPA audits.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

If you go to the VPFree webpage, and then go to FAQ you will find a discussion of Indian casinos. This will answer most of your questions if not all.

···

----------------------------------------

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: alrothjr@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:57:30 -0800
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?

I also want to know.. how does one know if a indian casino is legit? That is not to say that they are not. but who regulates them. It is my understanding that they are not regulated. the only constant that I see is they are igt machines and that carries some weight of course, but who actually regulates them.

--- On Thu, 3/10/11, MHS wrote:

From: MHS
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 AM

On 3/10/2011 5:34 AM, bobbartop wrote:

>

> If you're in the Southern Calif. area, I would say you can rest

> assured the machines are legit.

>

How in the world would anyone know? Those casinos do not issue

independently conducted CPA audits.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#12

Seem legit to me, I go to Pechanga all the time.

···

--- On Thu, 3/10/11, MHS <mspevack@optonline.net> wrote:

From: MHS <mspevack@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 AM

      On 3/10/2011 5:34 AM, bobbartop wrote:

If you're in the Southern Calif. area, I would say you can rest

assured the machines are legit.

How in the world would anyone know? Those casinos do not issue

independently conducted CPA audits.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#13

I've had good luck in the So Cal casinos over the years - so have my friends. A couple of weeks ago I was at San Manuel...within the first 20 mins, hit a royal. It was a welcome site as my last 3 trips to Vegas have proven disastrous. Go figure.

Karen

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Natalie Bindner <flyer_gurl_09@...> wrote:

On last week's radio show, Frank alluded to Indian Casinos and basically rigged
machines. I'm not sure how, but he came to the conclusion that the machines he
played are unregulated and unfair.

Has any one else drawn the same conclusions?

I have spent the last 5 months playing at various Indian casinos all across
California and have had particularly bad results. However, I still want to
believe the games are fair.

Harrah's Rincon has been particularly brutal to me where I've played $45K worth
of 9/6 Jacks or better over the past month and a half and am down $5,200. I
have never received a royal flush in an Indian casino nor any hand paid
jackpot._

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

The machines in the Indian casinos I've seen in San Diego County are mostly all IGT. I cannot believe that IGT would cooperate with anybody in creating a dishonest machine. They have too much to lose. However,it is conceivable that someone else might create a "gimmicked" version of the firmware for these machines, say a dishonest guy who knew the firmware architecture of the machine. In a regulated place like Nevada or New Jersey, this kind of chicanery would be quickly caught by state regulators. But since the Indian tribes literally 'regulate themselves," it's possible in theory for widespread cheating to occur.

However, having said that I will say that I believe the machines I have been playing, mostly at Barona and Viejas, are honest. To me they seem the same as the machines I've played in Vegas. And I did get one Royal at Barona in playing around 20,000 - 30,000 hands, which is about what you'd expect.

      Roberto-Tenore

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Albert J. Roth, Jr." <alrothjr@...> wrote:

i play at a local indian casino when I visit my home at the lake. Generally I would play for fun, not investing serious bankroll, or play to explore a different system of play and money management. My understanding is that they are not regulated and so the old adage of "buyer beware" bears some thought. (or maybe VP players beware).

What I have noticed is that they (the casino) will adjust the pay tables during times of expected high activity, such as a holiday weekend. Magically, 9/6 JOB one weekend (if you can find one) becomes 7/5 or worse. The other thing that I noticed is adjustments to the payout on the paytable. Jacks or better return 1 unit, two pair generally return 2 with threes bring home 3. The adjustment becomes that both 2 pair and threes only bring home 2 units. This is something that also gets adjusted during peak action.Â

One really has to search for a machine that has a decent pay table.Â

by the way, i have not hit a royal yet.. however I was sitting next to a player that hit a royal on $1 JOB after 15 minutes of play. Claims he hits them all the time. That has been the only royal i have seen.

--- On Thu, 3/10/11, Natalie Bindner <flyer_gurl_09@...> wrote:

From: Natalie Bindner <flyer_gurl_09@...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, harrahscasinos@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 1:10 AM

Â

      On last week's radio show, Frank alluded to Indian Casinos and basically rigged

machines. I'm not sure how, but he came to the conclusion that the machines he

played are unregulated and unfair.

Has any one else drawn the same conclusions?

I have spent the last 5 months playing at various Indian casinos all across

California and have had particularly bad results. However, I still want to

believe the games are fair.

Harrah's Rincon has been particularly brutal to me where I've played $45K worth

of 9/6 Jacks or better over the past month and a half and am down $5,200. I

have never received a royal flush in an Indian casino nor any hand paid

jackpot._

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

Somewhere in the dark recesses of my memory I seem to remember a Nevada law that says a machine manufacturer doing business in the State of Nevada may not manufacture and distribute non-random machines in any other jurisdiction in the world.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@...> wrote:

The machines in the Indian casinos I've seen in San Diego County are >mostly all IGT. I cannot believe that IGT would cooperate with anybody >in creating a dishonest machine.

#16

But there is nothing to stop them from being altered or modified.

···

On 3/18/2011 9:09 AM, Mickey wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@...> wrote:
>
> The machines in the Indian casinos I've seen in San Diego County are >mostly all IGT. I cannot believe that IGT would cooperate with anybody >in creating a dishonest machine.
>
Somewhere in the dark recesses of my memory I seem to remember a Nevada law that says a machine manufacturer doing business in the State of Nevada may not manufacture and distribute non-random machines in any other jurisdiction in the world.

#17

That regulation may have existed at one point but no longer.

What Nevada regulation says now is that any machine must be legal in the jurisdiction where it is shipped to.

···

----------------------------------------

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: mickeycrimm@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:09:57 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Is video poker at CA Indian casinos fair?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" wrote:
>
> The machines in the Indian casinos I've seen in San Diego County are >mostly all IGT. I cannot believe that IGT would cooperate with anybody >in creating a dishonest machine.
>
>
Somewhere in the dark recesses of my memory I seem to remember a Nevada law that says a machine manufacturer doing business in the State of Nevada may not manufacture and distribute non-random machines in any other jurisdiction in the world.

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#18

I too remember this tidbit, but where I heard it.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@> wrote:
>
> The machines in the Indian casinos I've seen in San Diego County are >mostly all IGT. I cannot believe that IGT would cooperate with anybody >in creating a dishonest machine.
>
>
Somewhere in the dark recesses of my memory I seem to remember a Nevada law that says a machine manufacturer doing business in the State of Nevada may not manufacture and distribute non-random machines in any other jurisdiction in the world.