Assuming an individual has full pay machines available and
understands proper straegy, does it really matter which version of VP
to play? If you have a full pay JOB, DP, DDP, BP, DW, etc. available
is there a best choice among them?
Is one version of VP better to play than another?
The one with Bob Dancer's picture on it ?
···
----- Original Message -----
From: "keenman55" <keenman55@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:36 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Is one version of VP better to play than another?
Assuming an individual has full pay machines available and
understands proper straegy, does it really matter which version of VP
to play? If you have a full pay JOB, DP, DDP, BP, DW, etc. available
is there a best choice among them?
I would assume the one with the best payback, taking the comps and
club points into consideration in figuring the total EV for the game.
Pick the strategy you know best or feel the most comfortable with,
and go for it.
77,
scottro
www.scottro.com
···
----- Original Message -----
From: keenman55
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:36 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Is one version of VP better to play than another?
Assuming an individual has full pay machines available and
understands proper straegy, does it really matter which version of VP
to play? If you have a full pay JOB, DP, DDP, BP, DW, etc. available
is there a best choice among them?
AND has Bob's picture on it.
···
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Harker" <scottro77@neo.lrun.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Is one version of VP better to play than another?
I would assume the one with the best payback, taking the comps and
club points into consideration in figuring the total EV for the game.
Pick the strategy you know best or feel the most comfortable with,
and go for it.
Assuming an individual has full pay machines available and
understands proper straegy, does it really matter which version of VP
to play? If you have a full pay JOB, DP, DDP, BP, DW, etc. available
is there a best choice among them?
Assuming full pay, the games of choice are DW (100.76/25.83) and DBP
(100.17/28.25). But you'll find lower variance in BP (99.16/20.9) and JOB
(99.54/19.5)
The lower variance could be a positive factor in short term play, but keep
in mind that all expected returns are long term. In short term play there
are no valid expectations (imo).
A final factor is which you enjoy the most and will be able to focus
concentration on while you play.
lb
Go troops!
From imdb.com:
Matthew Perry's Bad Tip
Friends actor Matthew Perry lapped up star treatment and top privacy during
a weekend stay in Las Vegas - but handed his hardworking casino host a
measly tip in return. The screen star, who makes $1 million an episode on
his hit sitcom, recently spent a private VIP weekend at the plush Bellagio
casino in America's gambling capital. A source says, "A casino host arranged
it so that everywhere he would go, he went through back entrances and was
seated in private areas." The casino host even managed to get his hands on
tickets to the sold-out Cirque Du Soleil show, O for 33-year-old Perry. But,
the source tells American magazine Us Weekly, at the end of the weekend, the
actor gave the male host just $20, prompting him to tell Perry to keep it
and ask, "How about just a hug?"
Full pay does not mean positive pay. Full pay means that it has the
normal "best" pay table for that game. (altho 10/6 or 9/7 job does
exist out there somewhere, and that's better than full pay job). The
games that are positive expectation, and thus the best to play, are
fullpay deuces wild, all-american, 9/6 DB/DJ, 10/7 DB, etc. But then
choosing amongst these takes some consideration as well. The most
important factors are expectancy, cashback, volatility, strategy, and
bankroll.
Expectancy: fpdw has 100.76% expectancy, which is very nice. All-
American has 100.72%, making it very close to fpdw. Leuce deuces is
100.12%, 9/6 DB/DJ is 100.09%, and so on.
Cashback: If the casino you play in offers cashback, you simply add
that to the expectancy. So if you play fpdw in a casino offering .3%
cash back, the expectancy is 100.76+.3 = 101.06%. The LV Hilton
has .55% cashback, best in vegas, but they have leuce deuces, not
fpdw. They do, however, have all-american, which is 100.72% + .55% =
101.27%, the best I know of in vegas.
Volatility: different games are more or less "volatile." Basically,
if more of the expected wins are tied up in hands such as royals, 4
deuces, etc that take longer to get, then you will have more ups and
downs...lose money when don't hit those jackpots, and win a ton when
you do...10/7 DB is one of the most volatile. Pick'em has the least
volatility, almost half that of fpdw, all-american, etc. 9/6 JOB has
2nd least volatility. Pick'em has a 99.95% expectancy, so cashback
makes it positive, while non-volatile. The reason it has least
volatility is that it pays 2 to 1 for 9s or better. Games like fpdw
pay 1 to 1 for 2 pair...and pay nothing for one pair. JOB pays 1 to
1 for a pair of jacks or better. Pick'em volatility comes from fact
that it pays a 6000 credit royal flush, which takes 350,800 hands to
hit. The straight flush takes 40,000 hands to hit, which is what a
royal in other games usually takes. It pays 1199 credits (i assume
not 1200 cause then u pay taxes if dollar machine). All-American and
FPDW are very close in volatility, with a slight edge going to FPDW.
They are considered mild volatility games, unlike the highly volatile
DB games, that can be 3x more volatile than dw/aa and 5x more
volatile than pick'em.
Bankroll: expectancy % is based on long run (ie millions of
hands)...short-term you don't know what kind of expectancy u can
expect. However, you can reason that the more volatile the game, the
more bankroll you'll need to ride out the waves until you hit the
jackpots needed to get your pos expectancy. For quarter AA or FPDW,
a little over 3k bankroll should be pretty good. www.jazbo.com has
lots of great info on bankroll, risk of ruin, etc. To really figure
out best games, you have to take into account variance and advantage
(expectancy over 100%), because while pick'em has least variance, it
needs an infinite bankroll, due to it's sub100% ev...however, if you
add in cashback, it's bankroll requirements go way down...in fact,
with just a .2% cashback in pick'em, it will only require 1/4 the
bankroll of DB/DJ poker. When I went to vegas last week, I played
pick'em at LV Hilton all week (best game is all-american, but my gf
likes pick'em better)...with .55% cashback, it's a 100.5% game with
lowest variance, a nice choice when on low bankroll...jazbo's page
shows that you need a bankroll of $1491.25 to expect to grow your
bankroll playing pick'em with .6% cash back (lv hilton is .55, so
more like 1600 is accurate)..the best game, all-american, needs
$1032.5 to expect to increase your money...to contrast, db/dj poker
with .6% cashback would need a $7500 bankroll according to
jazbo...even 9/6 job needs lower bankroll than db/dj poker at .6%
cash back (just barely gets over 100% with .6% cashback)
so yeah, there is a lot to consider when choosing games...this board
of course has a list of all the positive poker in vegas...so look
where ur staying to figure out which game to learn...the best games,
IMO, are fpdw and aa, with aa getting the edge thanks to lv hilton's
high cashback...i recommend bob dancer's winpoker to teach you
strategy to any of these games, and www.jazbo.com for more info on
bankroll and risk of ruin, and tomski index (do a google for it?) for
more info as well.
Assuming an individual has full pay machines available and
understands proper straegy, does it really matter which version of
VP
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "keenman55" <keenman55@y...> wrote:
to play? If you have a full pay JOB, DP, DDP, BP, DW, etc. available
is there a best choice among them?
Thank you for your detailed and well thought out answer, Nich. This is
the kind of answer I was looking for when I made my post.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Nich" <mini_pard@y...> wrote:
Full pay does not mean positive pay. Full pay means that it has the
normal "best" pay table for that game. (altho 10/6 or 9/7 job does
exist out there somewhere, and that's better than full pay job). The
games that are positive expectation, and thus the best to play, are
fullpay deuces wild, all-american, 9/6 DB/DJ, 10/7 DB, etc. But then
choosing amongst these takes some consideration as well. The most
important factors are expectancy, cashback, volatility, strategy, and
bankroll.Expectancy: fpdw has 100.76% expectancy, which is very nice. All-
American has 100.72%, making it very close to fpdw. Leuce deuces is
100.12%, 9/6 DB/DJ is 100.09%, and so on.Cashback: If the casino you play in offers cashback, you simply add
that to the expectancy. So if you play fpdw in a casino offering .3%
cash back, the expectancy is 100.76+.3 = 101.06%. The LV Hilton
has .55% cashback, best in vegas, but they have leuce deuces, not
fpdw. They do, however, have all-american, which is 100.72% + .55% =
101.27%, the best I know of in vegas.Volatility: different games are more or less "volatile." Basically,
if more of the expected wins are tied up in hands such as royals, 4
deuces, etc that take longer to get, then you will have more ups and
downs...lose money when don't hit those jackpots, and win a ton when
you do...10/7 DB is one of the most volatile. Pick'em has the least
volatility, almost half that of fpdw, all-american, etc. 9/6 JOB has
2nd least volatility. Pick'em has a 99.95% expectancy, so cashback
makes it positive, while non-volatile. The reason it has least
volatility is that it pays 2 to 1 for 9s or better. Games like fpdw
pay 1 to 1 for 2 pair...and pay nothing for one pair. JOB pays 1 to
1 for a pair of jacks or better. Pick'em volatility comes from fact
that it pays a 6000 credit royal flush, which takes 350,800 hands to
hit. The straight flush takes 40,000 hands to hit, which is what a
royal in other games usually takes. It pays 1199 credits (i assume
not 1200 cause then u pay taxes if dollar machine). All-American and
FPDW are very close in volatility, with a slight edge going to FPDW.
They are considered mild volatility games, unlike the highly volatile
DB games, that can be 3x more volatile than dw/aa and 5x more
volatile than pick'em.Bankroll: expectancy % is based on long run (ie millions of
hands)...short-term you don't know what kind of expectancy u can
expect. However, you can reason that the more volatile the game, the
more bankroll you'll need to ride out the waves until you hit the
jackpots needed to get your pos expectancy. For quarter AA or FPDW,
a little over 3k bankroll should be pretty good. www.jazbo.com has
lots of great info on bankroll, risk of ruin, etc. To really figure
out best games, you have to take into account variance and advantage
(expectancy over 100%), because while pick'em has least variance, it
needs an infinite bankroll, due to it's sub100% ev...however, if you
add in cashback, it's bankroll requirements go way down...in fact,
with just a .2% cashback in pick'em, it will only require 1/4 the
bankroll of DB/DJ poker. When I went to vegas last week, I played
pick'em at LV Hilton all week (best game is all-american, but my gf
likes pick'em better)...with .55% cashback, it's a 100.5% game with
lowest variance, a nice choice when on low bankroll...jazbo's page
shows that you need a bankroll of $1491.25 to expect to grow your
bankroll playing pick'em with .6% cash back (lv hilton is .55, so
more like 1600 is accurate)..the best game, all-american, needs
$1032.5 to expect to increase your money...to contrast, db/dj poker
with .6% cashback would need a $7500 bankroll according to
jazbo...even 9/6 job needs lower bankroll than db/dj poker at .6%
cash back (just barely gets over 100% with .6% cashback)so yeah, there is a lot to consider when choosing games...this board
of course has a list of all the positive poker in vegas...so look
where ur staying to figure out which game to learn...the best games,
IMO, are fpdw and aa, with aa getting the edge thanks to lv hilton's
high cashback...i recommend bob dancer's winpoker to teach you
strategy to any of these games, and www.jazbo.com for more info on
bankroll and risk of ruin, and tomski index (do a google for it?) for
more info as well.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "keenman55" <keenman55@y...> wrote:
> Assuming an individual has full pay machines available and
> understands proper straegy, does it really matter which version of
VP
> to play? If you have a full pay JOB, DP, DDP, BP, DW, etc. available
> is there a best choice among them?