vpFREE2 Forums

IRS tax code and W2Gs

#1

Karen,
Excellent response.
Curtis

···

On 12/8/06, krallison416@aol.com <krallison416@aol.com> wrote:

You won $4000. The $5 was no longer yours once you played it.

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: jamis225@yahoo.com
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: re IRS tax code and W2Gs

Because the tax code wants PAYOUT

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@...> wrote:
>
> I wanted to make sure I understand something. If I slip a $5 bill
> into a dollar machine and hit a royal for $4000, I didn't win $4000,
I
> only won $3995, the other $5 was just returned to me. Why do they
> make the W2G for $4000?
>
> - John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Karen,

The bet is $5 and the win is $3995, but slot players do not complain.
A W2G at the horsetrack will subtract the amount bet from the total
payoff to show the "net" profit as the reported winning amount.

Chris

···

On 12/8/06, krallison416@... <krallison416@...> wrote:
>
> You won $4000. The $5 was no longer yours once you played it.
>
> Karen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jamis225@...
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:05 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: re IRS tax code and W2Gs
>
> Because the tax code wants PAYOUT
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@> wrote:
> >
> > I wanted to make sure I understand something. If I slip a $5 bill
> > into a dollar machine and hit a royal for $4000, I didn't win $4000,
> I
> > only won $3995, the other $5 was just returned to me. Why do they
> > make the W2G for $4000?
> >
> > - John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Is this really so, universally?

It is "only" $5 for a $4,000 VP jackpot on a $1 machine, but still...

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kcace1024" <cy4873@...> wrote:

Karen,

A W2G at the horsetrack will subtract the amount bet from the total
payoff to show the "net" profit as the reported winning amount.

Chris

#4

OOOPS! $1, that is.

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@...> wrote:

Is this really so, universally?

It is "only" $5 for a $4,000 VP jackpot on a $1 machine, but still...

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kcace1024" <cy4873@> wrote:
>
> Karen,
>
> A W2G at the horsetrack will subtract the amount bet from the total
> payoff to show the "net" profit as the reported winning amount.
>
> Chris

#5

$5 is a cost basis like in stocks & other investments & is not "no
longer yours" in a true accounting sense.

Karen,
Excellent response.
Curtis

>
> You won $4000. The $5 was no longer yours once you played it.
>
> Karen
>
> From: jamis225@...
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:05 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: re IRS tax code and W2Gs
>
> Because the tax code wants PAYOUT
>
> >
> > I wanted to make sure I understand something. If I slip a $5

bill

> > into a dollar machine and hit a royal for $4000, I didn't win

$4000,

> I
> > only won $3995, the other $5 was just returned to me. Why do

they

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Curtis Rich" <LGTVegas@...> wrote:

On 12/8/06, krallison416@... <krallison416@...> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@> wrote:
> > make the W2G for $4000?
> >
> > - John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

From Chapter 5 of "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler":

"A W-2G (the G stands for gambling) is the tax form that any for-profit organization issues you-and sends a copy to the IRS-when you win a specified amount while gambling; see Appendix D. (Churches and other non-profit organizations are exempt from issuing W-2Gs.) For horse and dog racing, jai alai, state lotteries, and some other kinds of wagering, this form must be given for any NET winnings that are at least 300 times the amount of the bet. However, there's a special rule for bingo and slot machines; you get a W-2G for a GROSS win that's $1,200 or more, no matter how much your original bet was. And to make it more complicated, keno has its own special rule: a W-2G for any NET win of $1,500 or more.

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - "FRUGAL VIDEO POKER"
This new book (autographed) and other
   frugal products are now available at my
   new Web site, http://queenofcomps.com/.
   E-mail address is queenofcomps@cox.net.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

Just to make things more interesting, lets say that we are really big
whales, and a casino allows us to play a $1000 9/6 JoB machine, at
$5000 per play.

Should a pair of jack generate a W2G? From one perspective, I just
got back my bet. From the other, I just "won" $5000 and need to pay
taxes on it. Any guesses what would actually happen (since I doubt
that I will ever wager $5000 on any game)?

- John

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Boutot" <vegas_iwish@...> wrote:

$5 is a cost basis like in stocks & other investments & is not "no
longer yours" in a true accounting sense.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Curtis Rich" <LGTVegas@> wrote:
>
> Karen,
> Excellent response.
> Curtis
>
>
> On 12/8/06, krallison416@ <krallison416@> wrote:
> >
> > You won $4000. The $5 was no longer yours once you played it.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jamis225@
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:05 PM
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: re IRS tax code and W2Gs
> >
> > Because the tax code wants PAYOUT
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I wanted to make sure I understand something. If I slip a $5
bill
> > > into a dollar machine and hit a royal for $4000, I didn't win
$4000,
> > I
> > > only won $3995, the other $5 was just returned to me. Why do
they
> > > make the W2G for $4000?
> > >
> > > - John
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#8

For horse and dog racing, jai alai <snip> this form must be given for
any NET winnings that are at least 300 times the amount of the bet.>>

An interesting way to avoid a W-2G, is to place your bet through an
Internet offshore casino which participates with Autotote. Your bet is
comingled with all other bets at the track or fronton, but you do not
get the W-2G if you win greater than or equal to 300 times your wager.
Be careful that the Internet casino pays "true track odds", many do not
(afraid of violating this law?) and pocket (or return to the host?)
that amount which is in excess of 300 times your wager.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "queenofcomps" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

#9

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> com,

"queenofcomps" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

For horse and dog racing, jai alai <snip> this form must be given for
any NET winnings that are at least 300 times the amount of the bet.>>

To be precise net winnings are 300 times the bet PLUS the winnings must be
$600 or more. Sometimes two 1$ bets will avoid a W2-G where a $2 bet would
require one.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
vegasvpplayer
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:00 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: IRS tax code and W2Gs

#10

There is no guessing involved. Under the current tax code, a W2G is
generated on any payoff of $1,200.00 or higher. There is no mention of
the amount of the bet, only the payoff. Therefore in your scenario, you
would get a W2G on every winning hand.

Don the Dentist

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@...> wrote:

Just to make things more interesting, lets say that we are really big
whales, and a casino allows us to play a $1000 9/6 JoB machine, at
$5000 per play.

Should a pair of jack generate a W2G? From one perspective, I just
got back my bet. From the other, I just "won" $5000 and need to pay
taxes on it. Any guesses what would actually happen (since I doubt
that I will ever wager $5000 on any game)?

- John

#11

Is there any casinos on the LV strip who will withhold taxes on W2G?
  JR
  
dds2124 <dds6@cox.net> wrote:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@...> wrote:

Just to make things more interesting, lets say that we are really big
whales, and a casino allows us to play a $1000 9/6 JoB machine, at
$5000 per play.

Should a pair of jack generate a W2G? From one perspective, I just
got back my bet. From the other, I just "won" $5000 and need to pay
taxes on it. Any guesses what would actually happen (since I doubt
that I will ever wager $5000 on any game)?

- John

There is no guessing involved. Under the current tax code, a W2G is
generated on any payoff of $1,200.00 or higher. There is no mention of
the amount of the bet, only the payoff. Therefore in your scenario, you
would get a W2G on every winning hand.

Don the Dentist

---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#12

<<Is there any casinos on the LV strip who will withhold taxes on W2G?>>

You mean upon request? I'm fairly sure that all of them must if you request
it. Bally's/Paris and Harrah's definitely will.

Cogno

#13

I've had a bunch of casinos (not just in Las Vegas) ask me if I wanted
anything withheld.

There may be occasions where doing so may help with penalty avoidance if one
has underpaid one's estimated taxes...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

On 12/12/06, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:

<<Is there any casinos on the LV strip who will withhold taxes on W2G?>>

You mean upon request? I'm fairly sure that all of them must if you
request
it. Bally's/Paris and Harrah's definitely will.

#14

Karen,

The bet is $5 and the win is $3995, but slot players do not

complain.

A W2G at the horsetrack will subtract the amount bet from the total
payoff to show the "net" profit as the reported winning amount.

Chris

Isn't that true of live keno also?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kcace1024" <cy4873@...> wrote:

#15

I know both Bellagio & Wynn don't.
  MGM Grand does.
  Strange but true.
  JR

···

Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:
          <<Is there any casinos on the LV strip who will withhold taxes on W2G?>>

You mean upon request? I'm fairly sure that all of them must if you request
it. Bally's/Paris and Harrah's definitely will.

Cogno

---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#16

The devil is in the details and the details in the tax code usually
come from the lobbyists in the particular industry. The horseracing
industry knows that most of the regular bettors understand simple math
and can tell the amount of a win does not include the amount bet. The
casino industry knows that a slot player will be so excited about
winning a jackpot they will not care.

The term GROSS win is another special misleading term only used in
this way by the casino. When a share of stock is bought at $10 and
sold at $20 the GROSS profit is $10 not $20 by all known accounting
principles. The GROSS profit is then reduced by expenses like
commissions to determine the NET profit.

Does anyone know why keno players get special tax treatment? There
must be some history behind their special situation in the tax code.
I would have thought they would be at the bottom of this food chain.

From Chapter 5 of "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler":

"A W-2G (the G stands for gambling) is the tax form that any

for-profit organization issues you-and sends a copy to the IRS-when
you win a specified amount while gambling; see Appendix D. (Churches
and other non-profit organizations are exempt from issuing W-2Gs.) For
horse and dog racing, jai alai, state lotteries, and some other kinds
of wagering, this form must be given for any NET winnings that are at
least 300 times the amount of the bet. However, there's a special rule
for bingo and slot machines; you get a W-2G for a GROSS win that's
$1,200 or more, no matter how much your original bet was. And to make
it more complicated, keno has its own special rule: a W-2G for any NET
win of $1,500 or more.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "queenofcomps" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - "FRUGAL VIDEO POKER"
This new book (autographed) and other
   frugal products are now available at my
   new Web site, http://queenofcomps.com/.
   E-mail address is queenofcomps@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]