vpFREE2 Forums

IRS Audit Experience

7a. IRS Audit Experience
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 4:51 pm ((PST))

I recently was picked for an IRS compliance audit (Las Vegas office,
2006, Form 1040). Big honor, huh?

Among the (many) items the agent has asked to see are gambling records,
including my gambling diary, W2-G forms, casino win/loss statements,
markers, casino checks, etc.

I have read a lot of general suggestions and interpretations of tax law
and regulations here in the past. Has anyone had actual first-hand IRS
audit experience that they are willing to share, here or privately?
Thanks!

I was audited ages ago, and not for gambling-related issues, but one thing I remember is that the first person you interview with is low-level (of course), and that after your meeting with them, they give you a "finding" or something that says what they've decided -- and then you can request a second meeting with a higher-up who has more power to negotiate deals, etc.

At the time I was young, was reading a lot about taxes so had a little knowledge of my own case, and I felt comfortable pressing my case on my own -- and it wasn't much money at stake, at least not from the IRS's perspective. Today I haven't kept up on the regs and case law as much, and I can't think of a situation where I'd feel very comfortable representing myself thru the process, although I might give it a try at the first level.

However, you can be fairly certain that at the first level, all your arguments will fall on deaf ears, and you will be told you owe the maximum they think they can justify. After all, just like it didn't hurt you to try to take all those deductions, it doesn't hurt that low-level employee to try to get the max tax out of you.

I assume that this process has not changed all that much, although the details of how it works may have. I'm quite sure that during your first interview, when you finish, you can ask "what happens next?", and they'll tell you, and if you ask further "what if I don't agreee with what is proposed at that time", I expect they HAVE to tell you about the appeals, and any other options available to you.

At the time I went thru it, it was (1) initial meeting, (2) higher-level meeting, and (3) tax court.

Also, if you're afraid of criminal penalties, no matter how you may have in fact violated the law and tried to evade taxes, play dumb -- but you're going to have to pay up -- "Gee, I didn't understand that, what do I have to do to make it right?" will keep you out of jail most likely, but you'll be paying tax, interest, and penalties to avoid the criminal action.

Of course, if the audit is starting out because they think they can get hard evidence of criminal activity (intentional tax evasion), then you'd better get an attorney early in the game; you could then be in serious serious trouble - and you never know who the IRS wants to "make an example" of next.

IRS employees (and their departments) are pressured to get maximum return for the time invested, and to close cases, and therefore do not want things to drag on and on for little return. At the second level, they often want to get the case closed, and my experience was that a fairly rational argument, potentially consistent with the law, is great leverage for a compromise (I got a compromise where I paid half the challenged tax, but worded in such a way that I wouldn't get challenged for the same tax in future years -- but mine was a situation totally unrelated to gambling, so the details are of no interest here).

Finally, at some point the amount in dispute starts to generate (as I understand it) more interest or penalties, and at that point, you may want to pay up while you continue your appeals; if you win in the end, you'll get it back.

-BG

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gimlet1037 post:

> I recently was picked for an IRS compliance audit (Las Vegas
> office, 2006, Form 1040). Big honor, huh?
>
> Among the (many) items the agent has asked to see are gambling
> records, including my gambling diary, W2-G forms, casino win/loss
> statements, markers, casino checks, etc.
>
> I have read a lot of general suggestions and interpretations of tax
> law and regulations here in the past. Has anyone had actual
> first-hand IRS audit experience that they are willing to share,
> here or privately?

b.glazer wrote:

I was audited ages ago, and not for gambling-related issues, but one
thing I remember is that the first person you interview with is
low-level (of course), and that after your meeting with them, they
give you a "finding" or something that says what they've decided --
and then you can request a second meeting with a higher-up who has
more power to negotiate deals, etc.

At the time I was young, was reading a lot about taxes so had a
little knowledge of my own case, and I felt comfortable pressing my
case on my own -- and it wasn't much money at stake, at least not
from the IRS's perspective. Today I haven't kept up on the regs and
case law as much, and I can't think of a situation where I'd feel
very comfortable representing myself thru the process, although I
might give it a try at the first level.

However, you can be fairly certain that at the first level, all your
arguments will fall on deaf ears, and you will be told you owe the
maximum they think they can justify. After all, just like it didn't
hurt you to try to take all those deductions, it doesn't hurt that
low-level employee to try to get the max tax out of you.

I assume that this process has not changed all that much, although
the details of how it works may have. I'm quite sure that during
your first interview, when you finish, you can ask "what happens
next?", and they'll tell you, and if you ask further "what if I don't
agreee with what is proposed at that time", I expect they HAVE to
tell you about the appeals, and any other options available to you.

At the time I went thru it, it was (1) initial meeting, (2)
higher-level meeting, and (3) tax court ...

It should be noted that there's a likely distinction between the audit
to which Brian was subjected and the one to which gimlet has been
summoned.

From what he discusses, Brian was called in for a "line item" audit.
It was prompted by a suspicion that his return is inaccurate and there
was a underpayment of true tax liability. Audit selection seeks to
identify those returns that present an efficient prospect for
assessment of additional taxes. The taxpayer is on the defense in
such an audit to prove that their filing is correct and complete, with
consistent back up records.

gimlet indicates that he's about to undergo a compliance audit. The
taxpayer compliance program is conducted by the IRS to generally
assess the strength with which taxpayers accurately file. Selection
for the audit is not based upon suspicion of malfeasance, but instead
performed statistically.

Prior to suspension of this program a few years ago, taxpayers were
generally targeted, with few criteria used to identify a return for
review. Now, the program has been revamped and returns claiming
deductions in key areas are targeted, but without identification of
any suspect entries.

You can expect that the audit for such a return will be comprehensive,
within the scope of the deductions for which records have been
requested. Be prepared to document how your treatment is consistent
with the tax code and that your records fully support that treatment.

While I don't know that representation is necessary in an atmosphere
that doesn't make an upfront presumptions that you've filed
improperly, I certainly would want to consult in advance with a tax
resource that is fully knowledgeable in the area of gambling
reporting. Marissa Chien is one such acknowledged authority in the LV
area.

- Harry

I think that most of us are well aware of Marissa Chien and her expertise in this field.
However, the "kicker" in Harry's comments are the words "in the LV area".

Like the VP statistics and other related information that are so well archived and maintained
here, might it be "nice" to identify individuals in other parts of the country, i.e., lawyers,
CPA's, etc., who are knowledgeable in the area of gambling and the IRS and have helped
vpFREE members with their IRS-related "problems"?

I am not advocating that these individuals "advertise" here. That would be unacceptable from
many points of view. But it would be great to be aware of knowledgeable people in our local
areas that we might be able to go to in times of need.

..... bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

Marissa Chien is one such acknowledged authority in the LV area.

- Harry