I'm thinking of going after some of those match bonuses. Anyone have any
experience with hustling them, consistently?
What are the chances of getting stiffed--not being able to withdraw your
money?
Any good websites?
thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've been wondering about this as well. Are there any FP games online? Can they be trusted to deal a fair game?
I've been playing online poker for 5 years and have never had a reason to suspect I was being cheated, and I've done quite well each year, but "casino games" are a little different, at least in my mind, when online.
I'm 3 hours from the nearest VP, and even there, it's nothing good. I'm very curious to hear if anyone has had any experiences with online VP. I would guess the overwhelming opinion of the group would be negative, but I might be wrong.
77,
scottro
----- Original Message -----
From: richardrick7@aol.com
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com ; vp-mail@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Internet Bonuses
I'm thinking of going after some of those match bonuses. Anyone have any
experience with hustling them, consistently?
What are the chances of getting stiffed--not being able to withdraw your
money?
Any good websites?
thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've been doing this lately in my limited spare time and have already
made about 1500 doing it. I'd guess I prolly make about $30-50 an
hour doing this. You just have to make sure to read terms and see
what the wager multiplier is and make sure u can do it on job poker,
power poker, vp, or blackjack. Most allow any vp and bj, a few
disallow bj, and 1-2 i've seen are now doing no job or powerpoker
(multihand). I'd def recommend job or pick'em when you do this
because you are not trying to make money, you are trying to not lose
money, so the less volatility the better. If you can even achieve
90% ev, then you usually will come out ahead. I've done maybe 15 or
more casinos and only lost my money once. What I found was that you
should go for bonuses of at least $100. If you do a "deposit 20 get
40 free" bonus, while you only may have to wager $600, it's pretty
easy for volatility to take $40 if you have bad streak. My favorite
casinos are the "virtual casinos" like virtualcasino,
partytimecasino, 5rosescasino, goldencompscasino, etc. They have
pick'em on these. Now, the pick'em isn't full-pay (only 75, not 90
for a fullhouse), the volatility is still low and the payout is still
over 98%. The "microgaming" casinos all have full-pay job and multi-
hand job. On 5roses, I hit 2 quads for $150 each before I went to
vegas. When I got back, they had denied my withdrawal cause I hadn't
faxed in a form they requested for >$250 withdrawals. So I played a
lil more and hit a 3rd quad and then a 1000-credit 3-blazin 7s on
nickel slots (=$50). Then I took out $350 and still had over 100
left. The other day I decided to play $25 for the heck of it and
first hand hit quad 10s for another 150.
I've never had a problem with withdrawing money. Best to use
neteller to deposit money (cause u get more bonus and most credit
cards don't work at online casinos). The casinos will usually then
just deposit the money into ur neteller account. Other casinos will
mail you a check, which takes 2-3 weeks to receive. I've received
over $500 in checks so far, with more on the way.
These places have so much money cause they have the profits of a
land casino, but don't have to pay electricity, comps, as many
employees, cameras, security, etc. They are honest from what I've
found.
Biggest thing is bonus % and amount and wager requirements. I
usually try to find 200% on 100, or at least 100% on 150 where I have
to wager less than 10x. vegaspalms, royalvegas, and the affiliated
casinos only require 5x wager I think. What I do is play quarter vp,
so 1.25 a hand. So I just count each time I deal new hand until I
hit 80. Then I write down in a notepad file another 100 wagered and
the amount I have left. When I get to the req amount, then I may
play a lil more or cash out.
I've been wondering about this as well. Are there any FP games
online? Can they be trusted to deal a fair game?
I've been playing online poker for 5 years and have never had a
reason to suspect I was being cheated, and I've done quite well each
year, but "casino games" are a little different, at least in my mind,
when online.
I'm 3 hours from the nearest VP, and even there, it's nothing
good. I'm very curious to hear if anyone has had any experiences
with online VP. I would guess the overwhelming opinion of the group
would be negative, but I might be wrong.
77,
scottro
From: richardrick7@a...
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com ; vp-mail@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Internet BonusesI'm thinking of going after some of those match bonuses. Anyone
have any
experience with hustling them, consistently?
What are the chances of getting stiffed--not being able to
withdraw your
money?
Any good websites?thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.htmlYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harker" <scottro77@n...> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There's one machine at InterCasino (their version of "Double Bonus")
that is 99.94% EV, or 100.04% when adding in cash back. Several
online casinos also have progressive machines that can go positive,
and there's some more exotic machines that seem like they get
incredibly positive quite often (there's a dollar one that has a
progressive for a diamond royal flush... I've seen this one at
$75,000 several times, and a quarter one - SupaJax - that pays a
progressive for 4 jacks plus a special card... only problem is that
this one uses 53 cards with that special card helping nothing but the
4 jacks). I would say from personal experience that InterCasino is
reputable (and fairly generous with match play bonuses); I would say
similar things about all casinos that offer the two progressive
machines I mentioned.
I've been wondering about this as well. Are there any FP games
online? Can they be trusted to deal a fair game?
I've been playing online poker for 5 years and have never had a
reason to suspect I was being cheated, and I've done quite well each
year, but "casino games" are a little different, at least in my mind,
when online.
I'm 3 hours from the nearest VP, and even there, it's nothing
good. I'm very curious to hear if anyone has had any experiences
with online VP. I would guess the overwhelming opinion of the group
would be negative, but I might be wrong.
77,
scottro
From: richardrick7@a...
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com ; vp-mail@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Internet BonusesI'm thinking of going after some of those match bonuses. Anyone
have any
experience with hustling them, consistently?
What are the chances of getting stiffed--not being able to
withdraw your
money?
Any good websites?thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.htmlYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harker" <scottro77@n...> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
May I humbly suggest that internet gaming is a dangerous game,
especially if you LOVE to play VP. Unlike real world casinos, where
you can jump from one machine to another, you are dealing with some
main computer, in another country. I have tried it for the past 7
months or so---I did well at first, but it is a slow milk on your
bank account. And besides....there are no free drinks ; )
I'm thinking of going after some of those match bonuses. Anyone
have any
experience with hustling them, consistently?
What are the chances of getting stiffed--not being able to
withdraw your
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, richardrick7@a... wrote:
money?
Any good websites?thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm up over 50K in last 3 years, maybe more, never kept track. Been
banned at several… Reason? You only play for Bonus??? No Kidding.
Could have made much more by maxing out the initial Bonuses, but a
little reluctant to deposit over 1000 in any one at one time.
Been stiffed for maybe 4,500, small price considering the rewards.
Mostly Casinos going broke, but things are much better now…
I'm thinking of going after some of those match bonuses. Anyone
have any
experience with hustling them, consistently?
What are the chances of getting stiffed--not being able to withdraw
your
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, richardrick7@a... wrote:
money?
Any good websites?thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Blackjack if allowed is the best..
I'd def recommend job or pick'em when you do this
because you are not trying to make money, you are trying to not
lose
money, so the less volatility the better
I never play if there isn't a BONUS involved that raises the EV to at
least 105.00 during the bonus qualificaton..
Never for the pleasure.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mssensuale" <rina@p...> wrote:
May I humbly suggest that internet gaming is a dangerous game,
especially if you LOVE to play VP. Unlike real world casinos, where
you can jump from one machine to another, you are dealing with some
main computer, in another country. I have tried it for the past 7
months or so---I did well at first, but it is a slow milk on your
bank account. And besides....there are no free drinks ; )--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, richardrick7@a... wrote:
> I'm thinking of going after some of those match bonuses. Anyone
have any
> experience with hustling them, consistently?
>
> What are the chances of getting stiffed--not being able to
withdraw your
> money?
> Any good websites?
>
> thanks
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not to damper anyone's fun - but you all do know that Internet
gambling is against the law - right?
I was not positive of that until early last year but then I read the
laws and it became clear it is part of the federal Wire Act...
I never play if there isn't a BONUS involved that raises the EV to
> May I humbly suggest that internet gaming is a dangerous game,
> especially if you LOVE to play VP. Unlike real world casinos,
where
> you can jump from one machine to another, you are dealing with
some
> main computer, in another country. I have tried it for the past 7
> months or so---I did well at first, but it is a slow milk on your
> bank account. And besides....there are no free drinks ; )
>
>
> > I'm thinking of going after some of those match bonuses.
Anyone
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rva237" <richard237hs@h...> wrote:
at > least 105.00 during the bonus qualificaton.. > Never for the pleasure. > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mssensuale" <rina@p...> wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, richardrick7@a... wrote:
> have any
> > experience with hustling them, consistently?
> >
> > What are the chances of getting stiffed--not being able to
> withdraw your
> > money?
> > Any good websites?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not true at all. It is still under interpretation. The semantics in the wire act don't quite jive with online casino gaming and poker, as they were written primarily for sports betting and off-track racing.
As the law stands right now, there is no clear law making online casino gaming or poker games illegal. It IS illegal for anyone in the US to run the servers here in the US, but these casinos are all off-shore. There is currently no law prohibiting their usage. The wire act is antiquated and does not have provisions for the unforeseen vehicle known as the Internet.
77,
scottro
----- Original Message -----
From: missdeuces
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:16 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
Not to damper anyone's fun - but you all do know that Internet
gambling is against the law - right?
I was not positive of that until early last year but then I read the
laws and it became clear it is part of the federal Wire Act...
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rva237" <richard237hs@h...> wrote:
> I never play if there isn't a BONUS involved that raises the EV to
at > least 105.00 during the bonus qualificaton.. > Never for the pleasure. > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mssensuale" <rina@p...> wrote:
> > May I humbly suggest that internet gaming is a dangerous game,
> > especially if you LOVE to play VP. Unlike real world casinos,
where
> > you can jump from one machine to another, you are dealing with
some
> > main computer, in another country. I have tried it for the past 7
> > months or so---I did well at first, but it is a slow milk on your
> > bank account. And besides....there are no free drinks ; )
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, richardrick7@a... wrote:
> > > I'm thinking of going after some of those match bonuses.
Anyone
> > have any
> > > experience with hustling them, consistently?
> > >
> > > What are the chances of getting stiffed--not being able to
> > withdraw your
> > > money?
> > > Any good websites?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sir, it's quit the contrary. Internet gambling is a violation of Federal
Law and there have been prosecutions and convictions recently. It is true
that the individual players are rarely prosecuted but they can be. The
reason credit cards companies have banned their use as vehicles for payment
is directly related to the internet gaming being a violation of Federal
criminal statutes. The Federal Wire Act is valid and has been upheld by
Federal Courts in its application to internet gambling.
Rasti$Rulz
Coasts Casinos = vp-hell
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Harker" <scottro77@neo.lrun.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
Not true at all. It is still under interpretation. The semantics in the
wire act don't quite jive with online casino gaming and poker, as they were
written primarily for sports betting and off-track racing.
As the law stands right now, there is no clear law making online casino
gaming or poker games illegal. It IS illegal for anyone in the US to run
the servers here in the US, but these casinos are all off-shore. There is
currently no law prohibiting their usage. The wire act is antiquated and
does not have provisions for the unforeseen vehicle known as the Internet.
77,
scottro
I've never heard of any prosecutions, let alone convictions. Can you
supply any citations to news articles or, better yet, cite case law?
icroyals
-----Original Message-----
From: Video Poker Vegas [mailto:vpve…@…net]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:58 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
Sir, it's quit the contrary. Internet gambling is a violation of
Federal
Law and there have been prosecutions and convictions recently. It is
true
that the individual players are rarely prosecuted but they can be. The
reason credit cards companies have banned their use as vehicles for
payment
is directly related to the internet gaming being a violation of Federal
criminal statutes. The Federal Wire Act is valid and has been upheld by
Federal Courts in its application to internet gambling.
Rasti$Rulz
Coasts Casinos = vp-hell
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Justice Department contends existing laws already make all Internet
gambling illegal for Americans. The 1961 Wire Wager Act specifically
prohibits the use of telephone lines for the purpose of placing a sporting
bet. Since the Internet uses telephone lines, courts have ruled the Wire Act
also covers Web sports wagering. This is a summary of the latest
prosecution. There have been others.
Federal E-Mail Wiretaps Result In Convictions Of State Man
March 16, 2003
On the tiny island of Curacao, 40 miles off the coast of Venezuela, a
computer hummed along on Bon Bini Ave. Over the course of three years in the
late 1990s, the Caribbean server's Internet connections racked up more than
$400 million in sports wagers - on college basketball, professional football
and everything in between.
The profits lined the pockets of two Americans, one of whom ran the
international gambling ring from Nelsonville, Wis., a one-stop-sign town
about 15 miles east of Stevens Point. The federal investigation into the
Wisconsin-based online betting service was just the third such case ever
prosecuted in the United States. It was the first time the IRS used
wiretapping hardware - specially designed at the request of investigators in
Wisconsin - to monitor e-mail.
So far, six people have been convicted of federal crimes in connection with
the three-year investigation. A seventh, accused of helping the bookies hide
their profits in offshore banks, is scheduled for trial in May. Christiansen
Capital Advisors, a New York market research firm, estimates that about $6.4
billion will be wagered on athletic competitions this year, much of it via
about 1,400 Internet sports betting sites.
About 5 million people get a piece of the Internet action. The men's NCAA
basketball tournament, which starts next week, is the second most popular
gambling draw after the Super Bowl. Except in Nevada, betting on sports is
illegal everywhere in the U.S., including at Indian casinos, according to
Daniel J. Graber, assistant U.S. attorney for the Western District of
Wisconsin.
Under the federal Wire Act of 1961, using an online sports book (even if the
server is in a foreign country) is a felony, since it uses interstate
telephone lines. The law is difficult to enforce, however, because it's
often impossible to tell who is operating a particular Web site, Graber
said.
Unfortunately for Duane Pede, 52, of Amherst Junction, Wis., and Jeff
D'Ambrosia, 42, of Henderson, Nev., several coincidences and an intense
investigation led the feds to their door. Thomas Manske was on trial for
federal drug charges in 1998. He told the jury all those secretive meetings
in bars were not to sell drugs but to collect bets. Their interest piqued,
the authorities began working their way up the criminal food chain toward
Pede and D'Ambrosia.
Meanwhile, the U.S. attorney in St. Louis busted up an Internet gambling
ring based there. Two defendants told authorities they were just small fish.
Pede had started out in the sports information business, printing scorecards
for bookies and giving them the point spreads on various games. D'Ambrosia's
business began as a "tout" service - a way for gamblers and bookies to get
recommendations on how to bet.
Both enterprises constitute legally protected speech under the First
Amendment. Pede and D'Ambrosia eventually ran four tout services. Pede and
D'Ambrosia courted trouble when they decided to branch out, starting a
gambling service they could advertise to the people who used their other
services, authorities say.
"They figured, 'We know all the people calling us are gambling, why don't we
market them?" said Graber, who, along with assistant U.S. Attorney Timothy
O'Shea, prosecuted the case. The direct mail was easy because Pede also ran
a small printing company in Nelsonville, Signature Press, where the two
could print all their advertising materials for the new business.
One of those brochures, stamped by a postage meter at Signature Press, fell
into the hands of the Portage County Sheriff's Department and was forwarded
to Graber. Authorities now had a tenuous link, but the fact that the server
was in the Caribbean was problematic. To minimize the government's losses,
they bet against each other.
To prove the Americans were in charge, the U.S. attorney's office and the
IRS needed help from the FBI. The government often wiretaps telephone calls
to gather evidence in an investigation. But IRS agents had never before
wiretapped e-mail. The U.S. Postal Inspection Service and the Wisconsin
Department of Justice also assisted in the investigation.
The intercepted e-mails were a gold mine that clearly showed Pede and
D'Ambrosia troubleshooting and giving instructions to employees of both the
tout services and the gambling operation. Pede and D'Ambrosia both pleaded
guilty in December 2001 to federal gambling and tax charges and assisted
authorities in the prosecution of four co-conspirators.
Both are serving five-year federal prison terms. Each man was fined
$100,000; together they were ordered to pay nearly $1.5 million in back
taxes. Pede and D'Ambrosia's financial adviser, Florida attorney David
Hampton Tedder, has pleaded not guilty to seven federal felonies and is
scheduled for trial in May. Authorities believe Tedder helped the Internet
bookies hide the rest of their millions.
Authorities say that although this case is coming to a close, it has opened
a whole new avenue of prosecutions, proving an Internet gambling ring can be
shut down.
Rasti$Rulz
Coasts Casinos = vp-hell
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
----- Original Message -----
From: "ICRoyals" <icroyals2@ameritech.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
I've never heard of any prosecutions, let alone convictions. Can you
supply any citations to news articles or, better yet, cite case law?icroyals
I'm sorry that I wasn't more specific. I have no doubt that the
operation described in the article you sent is illegal. I was interested
in knowing if there have been any prosecution or conviction of players
for online gambling. Anyone have any evidence?
icroyals
-----Original Message-----
From: Video Poker Vegas [mailto:vpve…@…net]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:55 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
Federal E-Mail Wiretaps Result In Convictions Of State Man
March 16, 2003
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You are not correct.
It is illegal to run an online casino in the states, but it is not a violation (at least, it's not been deemed as one yet) to play at an online casino. the wire act is valid, of course, but it is not written to handle the Internet.
77,
scottro
----- Original Message -----
From: Video Poker Vegas
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
Sir, it's quit the contrary. Internet gambling is a violation of Federal
Law and there have been prosecutions and convictions recently. It is true
that the individual players are rarely prosecuted but they can be. The
reason credit cards companies have banned their use as vehicles for payment
is directly related to the internet gaming being a violation of Federal
criminal statutes. The Federal Wire Act is valid and has been upheld by
Federal Courts in its application to internet gambling.
Rasti$Rulz
Coasts Casinos = vp-hell
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Harker" <scottro77@neo.lrun.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
> Not true at all. It is still under interpretation. The semantics in the
wire act don't quite jive with online casino gaming and poker, as they were
written primarily for sports betting and off-track racing.
>
> As the law stands right now, there is no clear law making online casino
gaming or poker games illegal. It IS illegal for anyone in the US to run
the servers here in the US, but these casinos are all off-shore. There is
currently no law prohibiting their usage. The wire act is antiquated and
does not have provisions for the unforeseen vehicle known as the Internet.
>
> 77,
> scottro
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Exactly!
The wire act (which I said in my original email) covers sports wagering and horses, but it does NOT cover online CASINO gaming, such as slots, VP, roulette, or even poker. It is still under debate and interpretation. I've been playing online poker for a long time, and I keep up to date on the legality of it. I haven't broken a single law to date. Can you prove me wrong?
I'm not trying to challenge you. I am always learning. so, if you've got some new evidence about the legality of online casino gaming or poker, I'd sure love to hear about it. You sound very educated about this, so perhaps you're aware of something I'm not.
77,
scottro
----- Original Message -----
From: Video Poker Vegas
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
The Justice Department contends existing laws already make all Internet
gambling illegal for Americans. The 1961 Wire Wager Act specifically
prohibits the use of telephone lines for the purpose of placing a sporting
bet. Since the Internet uses telephone lines, courts have ruled the Wire Act
also covers Web sports wagering. This is a summary of the latest
prosecution. There have been others.
Federal E-Mail Wiretaps Result In Convictions Of State Man
March 16, 2003
On the tiny island of Curacao, 40 miles off the coast of Venezuela, a
computer hummed along on Bon Bini Ave. Over the course of three years in the
late 1990s, the Caribbean server's Internet connections racked up more than
$400 million in sports wagers - on college basketball, professional football
and everything in between.
The profits lined the pockets of two Americans, one of whom ran the
international gambling ring from Nelsonville, Wis., a one-stop-sign town
about 15 miles east of Stevens Point. The federal investigation into the
Wisconsin-based online betting service was just the third such case ever
prosecuted in the United States. It was the first time the IRS used
wiretapping hardware - specially designed at the request of investigators in
Wisconsin - to monitor e-mail.
So far, six people have been convicted of federal crimes in connection with
the three-year investigation. A seventh, accused of helping the bookies hide
their profits in offshore banks, is scheduled for trial in May. Christiansen
Capital Advisors, a New York market research firm, estimates that about $6.4
billion will be wagered on athletic competitions this year, much of it via
about 1,400 Internet sports betting sites.
About 5 million people get a piece of the Internet action. The men's NCAA
basketball tournament, which starts next week, is the second most popular
gambling draw after the Super Bowl. Except in Nevada, betting on sports is
illegal everywhere in the U.S., including at Indian casinos, according to
Daniel J. Graber, assistant U.S. attorney for the Western District of
Wisconsin.
Under the federal Wire Act of 1961, using an online sports book (even if the
server is in a foreign country) is a felony, since it uses interstate
telephone lines. The law is difficult to enforce, however, because it's
often impossible to tell who is operating a particular Web site, Graber
said.
Unfortunately for Duane Pede, 52, of Amherst Junction, Wis., and Jeff
D'Ambrosia, 42, of Henderson, Nev., several coincidences and an intense
investigation led the feds to their door. Thomas Manske was on trial for
federal drug charges in 1998. He told the jury all those secretive meetings
in bars were not to sell drugs but to collect bets. Their interest piqued,
the authorities began working their way up the criminal food chain toward
Pede and D'Ambrosia.
Meanwhile, the U.S. attorney in St. Louis busted up an Internet gambling
ring based there. Two defendants told authorities they were just small fish.
Pede had started out in the sports information business, printing scorecards
for bookies and giving them the point spreads on various games. D'Ambrosia's
business began as a "tout" service - a way for gamblers and bookies to get
recommendations on how to bet.
Both enterprises constitute legally protected speech under the First
Amendment. Pede and D'Ambrosia eventually ran four tout services. Pede and
D'Ambrosia courted trouble when they decided to branch out, starting a
gambling service they could advertise to the people who used their other
services, authorities say.
"They figured, 'We know all the people calling us are gambling, why don't we
market them?" said Graber, who, along with assistant U.S. Attorney Timothy
O'Shea, prosecuted the case. The direct mail was easy because Pede also ran
a small printing company in Nelsonville, Signature Press, where the two
could print all their advertising materials for the new business.
One of those brochures, stamped by a postage meter at Signature Press, fell
into the hands of the Portage County Sheriff's Department and was forwarded
to Graber. Authorities now had a tenuous link, but the fact that the server
was in the Caribbean was problematic. To minimize the government's losses,
they bet against each other.
To prove the Americans were in charge, the U.S. attorney's office and the
IRS needed help from the FBI. The government often wiretaps telephone calls
to gather evidence in an investigation. But IRS agents had never before
wiretapped e-mail. The U.S. Postal Inspection Service and the Wisconsin
Department of Justice also assisted in the investigation.
The intercepted e-mails were a gold mine that clearly showed Pede and
D'Ambrosia troubleshooting and giving instructions to employees of both the
tout services and the gambling operation. Pede and D'Ambrosia both pleaded
guilty in December 2001 to federal gambling and tax charges and assisted
authorities in the prosecution of four co-conspirators.
Both are serving five-year federal prison terms. Each man was fined
$100,000; together they were ordered to pay nearly $1.5 million in back
taxes. Pede and D'Ambrosia's financial adviser, Florida attorney David
Hampton Tedder, has pleaded not guilty to seven federal felonies and is
scheduled for trial in May. Authorities believe Tedder helped the Internet
bookies hide the rest of their millions.
Authorities say that although this case is coming to a close, it has opened
a whole new avenue of prosecutions, proving an Internet gambling ring can be
shut down.
Rasti$Rulz
Coasts Casinos = vp-hell
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
----- Original Message -----
From: "ICRoyals" <icroyals2@ameritech.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
> I've never heard of any prosecutions, let alone convictions. Can you
> supply any citations to news articles or, better yet, cite case law?
>
> icroyals
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I haven't broken a single law to date. Can you prove me wrong?<<
For a more definitive answer, read these columns by I. Nelson Rose:
Also this one, that explains how even betting that is not illegal can be
interpreted as a crime:
lb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Harker" <scottro77@neo.lrun.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
Exactly!
The wire act (which I said in my original email) covers sports wagering
and horses, but it does NOT cover online CASINO gaming, such as slots, VP,
roulette, or even poker. It is still under debate and interpretation. I've
been playing online poker for a long time, and I keep up to date on the
legality of it. I haven't broken a single law to date. Can you prove me
wrong?
I'm not trying to challenge you. I am always learning. so, if you've got
some new evidence about the legality of online casino gaming or poker, I'd
sure love to hear about it. You sound very educated about this, so perhaps
you're aware of something I'm not.
77,
scottro
----- Original Message -----
From: Video Poker Vegas
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet BonusesThe Justice Department contends existing laws already make all Internet
gambling illegal for Americans. The 1961 Wire Wager Act specifically
prohibits the use of telephone lines for the purpose of placing a
sporting
bet. Since the Internet uses telephone lines, courts have ruled the Wire
Act
also covers Web sports wagering. This is a summary of the latest
prosecution. There have been others.Federal E-Mail Wiretaps Result In Convictions Of State Man
March 16, 2003On the tiny island of Curacao, 40 miles off the coast of Venezuela, a
computer hummed along on Bon Bini Ave. Over the course of three years in
the
late 1990s, the Caribbean server's Internet connections racked up more
than
$400 million in sports wagers - on college basketball, professional
football
and everything in between.
The profits lined the pockets of two Americans, one of whom ran the
international gambling ring from Nelsonville, Wis., a one-stop-sign town
about 15 miles east of Stevens Point. The federal investigation into the
Wisconsin-based online betting service was just the third such case ever
prosecuted in the United States. It was the first time the IRS used
wiretapping hardware - specially designed at the request of
investigators in
Wisconsin - to monitor e-mail.
So far, six people have been convicted of federal crimes in connection
with
the three-year investigation. A seventh, accused of helping the bookies
hide
their profits in offshore banks, is scheduled for trial in May.
Christiansen
Capital Advisors, a New York market research firm, estimates that about
$6.4
billion will be wagered on athletic competitions this year, much of it
via
about 1,400 Internet sports betting sites.
About 5 million people get a piece of the Internet action. The men's
NCAA
basketball tournament, which starts next week, is the second most
popular
gambling draw after the Super Bowl. Except in Nevada, betting on sports
is
illegal everywhere in the U.S., including at Indian casinos, according
to
Daniel J. Graber, assistant U.S. attorney for the Western District of
Wisconsin.Under the federal Wire Act of 1961, using an online sports book (even if
the
server is in a foreign country) is a felony, since it uses interstate
telephone lines. The law is difficult to enforce, however, because it's
often impossible to tell who is operating a particular Web site, Graber
said.Unfortunately for Duane Pede, 52, of Amherst Junction, Wis., and Jeff
D'Ambrosia, 42, of Henderson, Nev., several coincidences and an intense
investigation led the feds to their door. Thomas Manske was on trial for
federal drug charges in 1998. He told the jury all those secretive
meetings
in bars were not to sell drugs but to collect bets. Their interest
piqued,
the authorities began working their way up the criminal food chain
toward
Pede and D'Ambrosia.
Meanwhile, the U.S. attorney in St. Louis busted up an Internet gambling
ring based there. Two defendants told authorities they were just small
fish.
Pede had started out in the sports information business, printing
scorecards
for bookies and giving them the point spreads on various games.
D'Ambrosia's
business began as a "tout" service - a way for gamblers and bookies to
get
recommendations on how to bet.
Both enterprises constitute legally protected speech under the First
Amendment. Pede and D'Ambrosia eventually ran four tout services. Pede
and
D'Ambrosia courted trouble when they decided to branch out, starting a
gambling service they could advertise to the people who used their other
services, authorities say."They figured, 'We know all the people calling us are gambling, why
don't we
market them?" said Graber, who, along with assistant U.S. Attorney
Timothy
O'Shea, prosecuted the case. The direct mail was easy because Pede also
ran
a small printing company in Nelsonville, Signature Press, where the two
could print all their advertising materials for the new business.One of those brochures, stamped by a postage meter at Signature Press,
fell
into the hands of the Portage County Sheriff's Department and was
forwarded
to Graber. Authorities now had a tenuous link, but the fact that the
server
was in the Caribbean was problematic. To minimize the government's
losses,
they bet against each other.
To prove the Americans were in charge, the U.S. attorney's office and
the
IRS needed help from the FBI. The government often wiretaps telephone
calls
to gather evidence in an investigation. But IRS agents had never before
wiretapped e-mail. The U.S. Postal Inspection Service and the Wisconsin
Department of Justice also assisted in the investigation.The intercepted e-mails were a gold mine that clearly showed Pede and
D'Ambrosia troubleshooting and giving instructions to employees of both
the
tout services and the gambling operation. Pede and D'Ambrosia both
pleaded
guilty in December 2001 to federal gambling and tax charges and assisted
authorities in the prosecution of four co-conspirators.Both are serving five-year federal prison terms. Each man was fined
$100,000; together they were ordered to pay nearly $1.5 million in back
taxes. Pede and D'Ambrosia's financial adviser, Florida attorney David
Hampton Tedder, has pleaded not guilty to seven federal felonies and is
scheduled for trial in May. Authorities believe Tedder helped the
Internet
bookies hide the rest of their millions.
Authorities say that although this case is coming to a close, it has
opened
a whole new avenue of prosecutions, proving an Internet gambling ring
can be
shut down.
Rasti$Rulz
Coasts Casinos = vp-hellhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
----- Original Message -----
From: "ICRoyals" <icroyals2@ameritech.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses> I've never heard of any prosecutions, let alone convictions. Can you
> supply any citations to news articles or, better yet, cite case law?
>
> icroyalsYahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENTvpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.htmlYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.htmlYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I don't have time to research the actual prosecutions at this time (since
its NASCAR weekend in Fort Worth). I can tell you that I have heard of
about a couple of prosecutions and have spoken directly to assistant United
States Attorneys in the Northern District of Texas about the issue. The
AUSA's are very reluctant to prosecute internet gambling cases because of
"lack of jury appeal". On the other hand they are adamant that it is
against existing federal law to gamble via the internet. In other words,
your chances of being prosecuted are probably about the same as winning the
state lottery. But the act itself is illegal and if you are cheated you can
not seek relief in the civil courts of the United States. Here are some of
the relevant statutes:
http://www.worldonlinegambling.com/laws/onlinegamblinglegal.htm
Rasti$Rulz
Coasts Casinos = vp-hell
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
----- Original Message -----
From: "ICRoyals" <icroyals2@ameritech.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:34 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
I'm sorry that I wasn't more specific. I have no doubt that the
operation described in the article you sent is illegal. I was interested
in knowing if there have been any prosecution or conviction of players
for online gambling. Anyone have any evidence?
Sir, my opinion does not matter. It is opinion of the Attorney General of
the United States that online gambling is an illegal act by the player.
Though it is unlikely that you will be prosecuted, you also will not be able
to seek redress in a United States Court if you are cheated or have any
other kind of tort claim related to participating in an illegal act.
http://www.casinoman.net/content/news/newstemplate.asp?artid=126
Rasti$Rulz
Coasts Casinos = vp-hell
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Harker" <scottro77@neo.lrun.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
You are not correct.
It is illegal to run an online casino in the states, but it is not a
violation (at least, it's not been deemed as one yet) to play at an online
casino. the wire act is valid, of course, but it is not written to handle
the Internet.
77,
scottro
Proves my point, precisely. Rose was actually my "source" on this, as he writes a column in Card Player magazine, of which I am a subscriber.
Thanks for the links!
77,
scottro
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Boxer
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
>>I haven't broken a single law to date. Can you prove me wrong?<<
For a more definitive answer, read these columns by I. Nelson Rose:
Also this one, that explains how even betting that is not illegal can be
interpreted as a crime:
lb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Harker" <scottro77@neo.lrun.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
> Exactly!
>
> The wire act (which I said in my original email) covers sports wagering
and horses, but it does NOT cover online CASINO gaming, such as slots, VP,
roulette, or even poker. It is still under debate and interpretation. I've
been playing online poker for a long time, and I keep up to date on the
legality of it. I haven't broken a single law to date. Can you prove me
wrong?
>
> I'm not trying to challenge you. I am always learning. so, if you've got
some new evidence about the legality of online casino gaming or poker, I'd
sure love to hear about it. You sound very educated about this, so perhaps
you're aware of something I'm not.
>
> 77,
> scottro
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Video Poker Vegas
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
>
>
> The Justice Department contends existing laws already make all Internet
> gambling illegal for Americans. The 1961 Wire Wager Act specifically
> prohibits the use of telephone lines for the purpose of placing a
sporting
> bet. Since the Internet uses telephone lines, courts have ruled the Wire
Act
> also covers Web sports wagering. This is a summary of the latest
> prosecution. There have been others.
>
> Federal E-Mail Wiretaps Result In Convictions Of State Man
> March 16, 2003
>
> On the tiny island of Curacao, 40 miles off the coast of Venezuela, a
> computer hummed along on Bon Bini Ave. Over the course of three years in
the
> late 1990s, the Caribbean server's Internet connections racked up more
than
> $400 million in sports wagers - on college basketball, professional
football
> and everything in between.
>
>
> The profits lined the pockets of two Americans, one of whom ran the
> international gambling ring from Nelsonville, Wis., a one-stop-sign town
> about 15 miles east of Stevens Point. The federal investigation into the
> Wisconsin-based online betting service was just the third such case ever
> prosecuted in the United States. It was the first time the IRS used
> wiretapping hardware - specially designed at the request of
investigators in
> Wisconsin - to monitor e-mail.
>
>
> So far, six people have been convicted of federal crimes in connection
with
> the three-year investigation. A seventh, accused of helping the bookies
hide
> their profits in offshore banks, is scheduled for trial in May.
Christiansen
> Capital Advisors, a New York market research firm, estimates that about
$6.4
> billion will be wagered on athletic competitions this year, much of it
via
> about 1,400 Internet sports betting sites.
>
>
> About 5 million people get a piece of the Internet action. The men's
NCAA
> basketball tournament, which starts next week, is the second most
popular
> gambling draw after the Super Bowl. Except in Nevada, betting on sports
is
> illegal everywhere in the U.S., including at Indian casinos, according
to
> Daniel J. Graber, assistant U.S. attorney for the Western District of
> Wisconsin.
>
>
> Under the federal Wire Act of 1961, using an online sports book (even if
the
> server is in a foreign country) is a felony, since it uses interstate
> telephone lines. The law is difficult to enforce, however, because it's
> often impossible to tell who is operating a particular Web site, Graber
> said.
>
>
> Unfortunately for Duane Pede, 52, of Amherst Junction, Wis., and Jeff
> D'Ambrosia, 42, of Henderson, Nev., several coincidences and an intense
> investigation led the feds to their door. Thomas Manske was on trial for
> federal drug charges in 1998. He told the jury all those secretive
meetings
> in bars were not to sell drugs but to collect bets. Their interest
piqued,
> the authorities began working their way up the criminal food chain
toward
> Pede and D'Ambrosia.
>
>
> Meanwhile, the U.S. attorney in St. Louis busted up an Internet gambling
> ring based there. Two defendants told authorities they were just small
fish.
> Pede had started out in the sports information business, printing
scorecards
> for bookies and giving them the point spreads on various games.
D'Ambrosia's
> business began as a "tout" service - a way for gamblers and bookies to
get
> recommendations on how to bet.
>
>
> Both enterprises constitute legally protected speech under the First
> Amendment. Pede and D'Ambrosia eventually ran four tout services. Pede
and
> D'Ambrosia courted trouble when they decided to branch out, starting a
> gambling service they could advertise to the people who used their other
> services, authorities say.
>
>
> "They figured, 'We know all the people calling us are gambling, why
don't we
> market them?" said Graber, who, along with assistant U.S. Attorney
Timothy
> O'Shea, prosecuted the case. The direct mail was easy because Pede also
ran
> a small printing company in Nelsonville, Signature Press, where the two
> could print all their advertising materials for the new business.
>
>
> One of those brochures, stamped by a postage meter at Signature Press,
fell
> into the hands of the Portage County Sheriff's Department and was
forwarded
> to Graber. Authorities now had a tenuous link, but the fact that the
server
> was in the Caribbean was problematic. To minimize the government's
losses,
> they bet against each other.
>
>
> To prove the Americans were in charge, the U.S. attorney's office and
the
> IRS needed help from the FBI. The government often wiretaps telephone
calls
> to gather evidence in an investigation. But IRS agents had never before
> wiretapped e-mail. The U.S. Postal Inspection Service and the Wisconsin
> Department of Justice also assisted in the investigation.
>
>
> The intercepted e-mails were a gold mine that clearly showed Pede and
> D'Ambrosia troubleshooting and giving instructions to employees of both
the
> tout services and the gambling operation. Pede and D'Ambrosia both
pleaded
> guilty in December 2001 to federal gambling and tax charges and assisted
> authorities in the prosecution of four co-conspirators.
>
>
> Both are serving five-year federal prison terms. Each man was fined
> $100,000; together they were ordered to pay nearly $1.5 million in back
> taxes. Pede and D'Ambrosia's financial adviser, Florida attorney David
> Hampton Tedder, has pleaded not guilty to seven federal felonies and is
> scheduled for trial in May. Authorities believe Tedder helped the
Internet
> bookies hide the rest of their millions.
>
>
> Authorities say that although this case is coming to a close, it has
opened
> a whole new avenue of prosecutions, proving an Internet gambling ring
can be
> shut down.
>
> Rasti$Rulz
> Coasts Casinos = vp-hell
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ICRoyals" <icroyals2@ameritech.net>
> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Internet Bonuses
>
>
> > I've never heard of any prosecutions, let alone convictions. Can you
> > supply any citations to news articles or, better yet, cite case law?
> >
> > icroyals
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links:
> http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links:
> http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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