vpFREE2 Forums

Insurance Thread - Moved to FREEvpFREE

I was wondering how far this would go on the VPFree group, and I think
this is so appropriate moved over here. Of course, it could be anyplace
as it has nothing to do with video poker.

I would just like to find out what in the world people have against
providing health services for other people, or public education, or
clean air. Call it "socialism" and it is suddenly something terrible! I
suppose it would be a problem if we socialized video poker. Let's not
let anyone win too much! We need to spread the royal flushes around!

We do not need to provide the insurance industry an extra payment on
top of what the medical and drug professions make on top of what we pay
to keep healthy!!! We do not even need to provide casino employees
extra money on top of what the casino gets because we won some money!!!

We need national health care and the reason the unions supported that
rather than automobile insurance or home insurance is because it is not
the same concept! Health care is more relative to public education,
which was begun almost immediately with Virginia Dare or Pocahontas or
whoever! Why are we so fearful of 'spreading the wealth'???

Sorry---Maybe a little too much wine tonight but I can get worse!!!

Ray

···

To: vpFREE@Yahoogroups.com
From: "SebensR" <sebensr@gmail.com>
Date: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:28 pm
Subject: Re: Insurance Thread - Moved to FREEvpFREE

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, vpFREE Administrator <vp_free@...> wrote:

Please use private email or FREEvpFREE for any further posts
in the current Insurance / Retirement thread.

FREEvpFREE:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/

<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/">
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/</a>

Messages can be read on FREEvpFREE without becoming a member,
but you must be a member to post.

vpFREE Administrator

"Spreading the wealth" rewards slackers, and slackers are the root cause of every major problem this country faces. Rewarding them only motivates them to keep on putting their hand out holding a tin cup. Ignoring them will force the best of them to become accountable while the rest of them rot away. Good riddance.

I do, however, agree 100% with your suggestion that casino employees should not be tipped. Other than waitresses, bartenders and valets, I haven't tipped one in 10 years. I don't tip my banker nor do I tip the clerk at Walgreen's, and tipping casino floor people and/or cashiers is simply a reaction to intimidation and/or a weak constitution. They spend their time hoping you lose so they have a better opportunity t keep being employed, and when you win they act as phony as Jean Scott's $3 bill-driven video poker show.

···

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, vpFREE Administrator <vp_free@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: vpFREE Administrator <vp_free@yahoo.com>
Subject: [FREEvpFREE] Re: Insurance Thread - Moved to FREEvpFREE
To: FREEvpFREE@Yahoogroups.com
Cc: "SebensR" <sebensr@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 10:34 PM

To: vpFREE@Yahoogroups. com
From: "SebensR" <sebensr@gmail. com>
Date: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:28 pm
Subject: Re: Insurance Thread - Moved to FREEvpFREE

I was wondering how far this would go on the VPFree group, and I think
this is so appropriate moved over here. Of course, it could be anyplace
as it has nothing to do with video poker.

I would just like to find out what in the world people have against
providing health services for other people, or public education, or
clean air. Call it "socialism" and it is suddenly something terrible! I
suppose it would be a problem if we socialized video poker. Let's not
let anyone win too much! We need to spread the royal flushes around!

We do not need to provide the insurance industry an extra payment on
top of what the medical and drug professions make on top of what we pay
to keep healthy!!! We do not even need to provide casino employees
extra money on top of what the casino gets because we won some money!!!

We need national health care and the reason the unions supported that
rather than automobile insurance or home insurance is because it is not
the same concept! Health care is more relative to public education,
which was begun almost immediately with Virginia Dare or Pocahontas or
whoever! Why are we so fearful of 'spreading the wealth'???

Sorry---Maybe a little too much wine tonight but I can get worse!!!

Ray

>>>>>>>>>

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, vpFREE Administrator <vp_free@... > wrote:

Please use private email or FREEvpFREE for any further posts
in the current Insurance / Retirement thread.

FREEvpFREE:

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/FREEvpFREE /

<a href="http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/FREEvpFREE /">
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/FREEvpFREE /</a>

Messages can be read on FREEvpFREE without becoming a member,
but you must be a member to post.

vpFREE Administrator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rob Singer wrote:

I do, however, agree 100% with your suggestion that casino
employees should not be tipped. Other than waitresses, bartenders
and valets, I haven't tipped one in 10 years. I don't tip my banker
nor do I tip the clerk at Walgreen's, and tipping casino floor
people and/or cashiers is simply a reaction to intimidation and/or
a weak constitution.

There is no fixed rule that would allow someone to know, merely by
off-hand observation, which service staff should be customarily
tipped. I'm not sure on what measure you've deemed that waitresses
and valets merit tips, but slot attendants do not.

The strongest convention I find by which to assess whether a tip is
customary is whether the employer leads the employee to believe that a
portion of their compensation will be in the form of tips. That's
certainly true of waitresses and many other hotel employees. I
guarantee that's true of slot attendants.

I can't necessarily fault you for not tossing a modest $20 or $50 to
someone handling a $20K hand pay (which, frankly, I see as a perfectly
reasonable amount to tip). But, in my book, not to tip is akin to
walking from a dinner without adding something to the check.

There's room to argue the appropriate amount to tip slot employees.
But, all things considered, it's difficult for me to fall in step with
the idea that no tip at all is appropriate. This isn't a consequence
of my not wanting to look shabby in the attendant's eyes -- I tip on
the casino floor under no more compulsion than when I tip restaurant
staff.

- Harry

Harry--There is no "fixed rule" for anything that is not required in one's daily regimen. For me, not tipping slot attendants is based - just as my video poker play is based - on simple common sense.

I have no concern over the pay scale of anyone, however, since I know that a waitress and a valet derive the majority of their pay from their tips and slot attendants do not, I can easily check off the first box of sensibility without regret. After that, multiple discussions/interviews with slot attendants for a column I did revealed that with their deepest honesty, they are in no way "rooting" for the players to hit big jackpots in their quest for a tip. They are in fact doint the exact opposite, regardless of what they may say and/or portray with their bubbly chatter and smiley faces as they take care of your win. Tips do enhance their earnings, yet losers secure their jobs along with a steady income. BTW--every one of the selection I talked to from 4 different casinos admitted to pouring the majority of their tips into the poker machines anyway. If you know me then you know I have absolutely no sympathy for gaming addicts.

I make an exceptional living directly from the machines, so I offer everyone my advice on playing as well as my views on tipping. Being at N/C, it is time well spent for me when I can help truly concerned people hold onto their money whilst learning how to consistently enjoy the game for their first time ever. For some, learning how to say no to casino tipping has opened a brand new door of sensibility to them. I've spent a lot of time with vpFREE "advantage players" this past year and I have quite a schedule lined up for 2009 already. Even though weaning them off of just sitting at machines playing optimal-play vp aimlessly for hours upon hours every casino visit is indeed a challenge, fine tuning their faulty reasoning behind tipping habits is almost always a tough nut to crack.

Most do say they "feel funny" not tipping but they won't reveal why. Having always been a decent service industry tipper but a "reformed" casino tipper for the past decade, casino attendant intimidation/arrogance (counting out the last hundred in 20's at many locations) is indeed a factor and, a sincere test of one's ability to learn to stand on their own two feet.

In my opinion, people who do not look at every aspect of gambling inside a casino as YOU vs. the CASINO period -- the casino of course not being merely the building, but those employed by the casino for the sole overall strategy of separating their customers from as much of their money as they can -- have not yet reached the pinnacle of what it takes to consistently beat the casinos on their own terms.

···

--- On Mon, 2/2/09, Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:

From: Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net>
Subject: [FREEvpFREE] Re: Insurance Thread - Moved to FREEvpFREE
To: FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 11:11 AM

Rob Singer wrote:

I do, however, agree 100% with your suggestion that casino
employees should not be tipped. Other than waitresses, bartenders
and valets, I haven't tipped one in 10 years. I don't tip my banker
nor do I tip the clerk at Walgreen's, and tipping casino floor
people and/or cashiers is simply a reaction to intimidation and/or
a weak constitution.

There is no fixed rule that would allow someone to know, merely by
off-hand observation, which service staff should be customarily
tipped. I'm not sure on what measure you've deemed that waitresses
and valets merit tips, but slot attendants do not.

The strongest convention I find by which to assess whether a tip is
customary is whether the employer leads the employee to believe that a
portion of their compensation will be in the form of tips. That's
certainly true of waitresses and many other hotel employees. I
guarantee that's true of slot attendants.

I can't necessarily fault you for not tossing a modest $20 or $50 to
someone handling a $20K hand pay (which, frankly, I see as a perfectly
reasonable amount to tip). But, in my book, not to tip is akin to
walking from a dinner without adding something to the check.

There's room to argue the appropriate amount to tip slot employees.
But, all things considered, it's difficult for me to fall in step with
the idea that no tip at all is appropriate. This isn't a consequence
of my not wanting to look shabby in the attendant's eyes -- I tip on
the casino floor under no more compulsion than when I tip restaurant
staff.

- Harry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rob Singer wrote:

I have no concern over the pay scale of anyone, however, since I
know that a waitress and a valet derive the majority of their pay
from their tips and slot attendants do not, I can easily check off
the first box of sensibility without regret. After that, multiple
discussions/interviews with slot attendants for a column I did
revealed that with their deepest honesty, they are in no way
"rooting" for the players to hit big jackpots in their quest for a
tip. They are in fact doint the exact opposite, regardless of what
they may say and/or portray with their bubbly chatter and smiley
faces as they take care of your win. Tips do enhance their
earnings, yet losers secure their jobs along with a steady income.
BTW--every one of the selection I talked to from 4 different
casinos admitted to pouring the majority of their tips into the
poker machines anyway. If you know me then you know I have
absolutely no sympathy for gaming addicts.

These statements strike me as somewhat peculiar (wouldn't be the first
time for that, though).

First, slot attendants I've spoken to have a keen sense that their
livelihood isn't dependent upon the luck of any given player or group
of players -- they grasp that the house has an inevitable edge on all
games across the body of players. They're far more concerned over
seeing a packed, actively playing house than whether people are
winning or losing at the moment.

That's not entirely so ... these slot attendants strongly prefer that
people playing on their shift win; it increases the likelihood that
they'll come home with appreciable tip money.

But, more significantly, I have to observe that your remarks display a
marked disdain for slot attendants. I can't help but find that this
disdain, and not any underlying facts in the situation, drive your
attitude toward attendant tipping.

- H.

The reason those comments may seem peculiar, Harry, is likely due to the same phenomena most of what I say or have said over the years: I've actually researched this issue before writing a published article about it, and I did so with a very open mind. Unlike the most typical paths as taken by the most typical of frenzied, habitual video poker players who simply WANT a gaming issue to be this way instead of that way in order to justify the more popular, self-confidence-building positions, what I say and/or do is unpopular and difficult to take in because I approach these issues from a professional point of view rather than an emotional one, and I am never afraid to ruffle feather for the sake of keeping the masses happy.

One of these main issues these days is in machine operation. I find it extraordinarily surprising that those with educated minds of the vp world do not want to believe that machines do not run 100% randomly. I have done extensive research on that issue also, but those who hate me for doing that will only quote REGS that they are allowed to see by those who run the gaming world. I have seen more and have discussed much more, and that went into my published article also. I must say....it is difficult to comprehend the mind that will never examine an issue to its fullest extent before shaking out a somewhat irrational - but nonetheless easier to deal with - result.

···

--- On Tue, 2/3/09, Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:

From: Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net>
Subject: [FREEvpFREE] Re: Insurance Thread - Moved to FREEvpFREE
To: FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 5:06 AM

Rob Singer wrote:

I have no concern over the pay scale of anyone, however, since I
know that a waitress and a valet derive the majority of their pay
from their tips and slot attendants do not, I can easily check off
the first box of sensibility without regret. After that, multiple
discussions/ interviews with slot attendants for a column I did
revealed that with their deepest honesty, they are in no way
"rooting" for the players to hit big jackpots in their quest for a
tip. They are in fact doint the exact opposite, regardless of what
they may say and/or portray with their bubbly chatter and smiley
faces as they take care of your win. Tips do enhance their
earnings, yet losers secure their jobs along with a steady income.
BTW--every one of the selection I talked to from 4 different
casinos admitted to pouring the majority of their tips into the
poker machines anyway. If you know me then you know I have
absolutely no sympathy for gaming addicts.

These statements strike me as somewhat peculiar (wouldn't be the first
time for that, though).

First, slot attendants I've spoken to have a keen sense that their
livelihood isn't dependent upon the luck of any given player or group
of players -- they grasp that the house has an inevitable edge on all
games across the body of players. They're far more concerned over
seeing a packed, actively playing house than whether people are
winning or losing at the moment.

That's not entirely so ... these slot attendants strongly prefer that
people playing on their shift win; it increases the likelihood that
they'll come home with appreciable tip money.

But, more significantly, I have to observe that your remarks display a
marked disdain for slot attendants. I can't help but find that this
disdain, and not any underlying facts in the situation, drive your
attitude toward attendant tipping.

- H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]