vpFREE2 Forums

Informal, SERIOUS survey on Quick Quads

#1

I say serious because I may take serious step depending on results.

Question 1. What kind of results have you been getting lately playing QQ?

  1. Have you been getting dealt four-of- a- kinds Lately?

Background - I could fill 10 pages with this, but I’ll try to keep it short. I play 10 - 15 hours/week on full pay, 10 hand 25c DDB QQ in the Midwest. Been doing it for 5 years plus with decent results. Since about July 2013…Not-so-much. I’ve gone about 2 months plus w/o a dealt 4OAK, altho I’ve had a few dealt QQ. Of course that means no four 2,3,4, or Aces. My W’2’s are non existent, very different results than previous years. Most other serious players I’ve talked to…same results.

Now I understand volatility and the implications if the casinos get caught gaffing machines. The way I understand it, machines are checked randomly. I believe gaming can check machines in 2 ways. One being they can check the “seal” on the chip…This would be pretty obvious. Two, they can supposedly also check the “thumbprint” of the chip software, that this is as it should be. I obviously don’t know much about this. My thoughts are it’s probably a number sequence or something that has to match another number sequence. My thinking is: If they are sophisticated enough to produce a “gaffed” chip, they would also have the “test” look pretty close to correct.

There have to be other serious QQ players out there. I’d be particularly interested in those that play 10 hand DDB. I’m about ready to ask to talk to gaming at my local casino. I don’t know what the results of that would be, but I’m pretty sure if I do, I’m going “all-in” . I will probably have to quit playing at that casino.

While I know this “random” check is supposedly done, but what is “random”, once a day, week month, year?

What is the chance if they only gaffed certain games, that that game would be the one checked. Not very hi, I would expect. Unfortunately, I don’t have hard and fast numbers or records, and what good would that do anyway. I’m pretty sure gaming is going to assume I’m just another befuddled, losing gambler. If you had asked me a year ago, "what do you believe the chances of gaffing are?, I would have answered…“near zero” Ask me that question today, the answer might be considerably higher.

BTW, I was in Vegas recently & played at Ellis Island and a little at South Point, with same results as locally, but certainly not enough play to determine anything.

I hope to get some answers here that may determine my future plans, but I don’t intend to keep up with what’s been going on lately. Thanks in advance for anything you “experts” can do to fill me in on anything you know about results and anything you can tell me about this "testing’ process.

#2

Answers (but for five hands, not ten):

  1. Not good results. There has been a downswing. I do great when I’m on videopoker,com, but I haven’t given serious consideration to the paytable on VP.com vs Sands Bethlehem where I have played it. Next time, I will definitely look for changes. I’m also going to try Atlantic City… just about the same distance for me.

  2. No four of a kinds. Been dealt quick quads on occasion.

Please note I mostly play five hands to try and stretch the budget.

Sands in general seems tighter than it used to be. But that’s very unscientific-- just my experience.

···

On May 29, 2014, at 12:15 PM, dj…@…com [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

I say serious because I may take serious step depending on results.

Question 1. What kind of results have you been getting lately playing QQ?

  1. Have you been getting dealt four-of- a- kinds Lately?

Background - I could fill 10 pages with this, but I’ll try to keep it short. I play 10 - 15 hours/week on full pay, 10 hand 25c DDB QQ in the Midwest. Been doing it for 5 years plus with decent results. Since about July 2013…Not-so-much. I’ve gone about 2 months plus w/o a dealt 4OAK, altho I’ve had a few dealt QQ. Of course that means no four 2,3,4, or Aces. My W’2’s are non existent, very different results than previous years. Most other serious players I’ve talked to…same results.

Now I understand volatility and the implications if the casinos get caught gaffing machines. The way I understand it, machines are checked randomly. I believe gaming can check machines in 2 ways. One being they can check the “seal” on the chip…This would be pretty obvious. Two, they can supposedly also check the “thumbprint” of the chip software, that this is as it should be. I obviously don’t know much about this. My thoughts are it’s probably a number sequence or something that has to match another number sequence. My thinking is: If they are sophisticated enough to produce a “gaffed” chip, they would also have the “test” look pretty close to correct.

There have to be other serious QQ players out there. I’d be particularly interested in those that play 10 hand DDB. I’m about ready to ask to talk to gaming at my local casino. I don’t know what the results of that would be, but I’m pretty sure if I do, I’m going “all-in” . I will probably have to quit playing at that casino.

While I know this “random” check is supposedly done, but what is “random”, once a day, week month, year?

What is the chance if they only gaffed certain games, that that game would be the one checked. Not very hi, I would expect. Unfortunately, I don’t have hard and fast numbers or records, and what good would that do anyway. I’m pretty sure gaming is going to assume I’m just another befuddled, losing gambler. If you had asked me a year ago, "what do you believe the chances of gaffing are?, I would have answered…“near zero” Ask me that question today, the answer might be considerably higher.

BTW, I was in Vegas recently & played at Ellis Island and a little at South Point, with same results as locally, but certainly not enough play to determine anything.

I hope to get some answers here that may determine my future plans, but I don’t intend to keep up with what’s been going on lately. Thanks in advance for anything you “experts” can do to fill me in on anything you know about results and anything you can tell me about this "testing’ process.

#3

dje59@mchsi.com wrote:

I'm about ready to ask to talk to gaming at my local casino. I don't know what the results of that would be, but I'm pretty sure if I do, I'm going "all-in" . I will probably have to quit playing at that casino.

Maybe Nevada is different from your state, but I've contacted Gaming
several times in Nevada, with generally favorable results, and never
had any negative repercussions from the casino. I don't go through
the casino. I contact Gaming directly. I once asked a technician at
Gaming about the randomness of machines and he was very cooperative.
It might not be as much of a step as you think it will be.

#4

The number of hours that you’re talking about for a given set of hands doesn’t really strike me as statistically significant (although I may be wrong). If you can please send me the specific hands that you think should have been dealt outright, I can find the proportions and calculate out the number of statistically significant hands for you. That would be a good start to approaching gaming other than just a “befuddled loser gambler”, as you put it. I don’t know this game, so please send me examples of hands that should have happened but didn’t and I can send you 95% and 99% confidence levels for those hands.

···

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 9:15 AM, dj…@…com [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

I say serious because I may take serious step depending on results.

Question 1. What kind of results have you been getting lately playing QQ?

  1. Have you been getting dealt four-of- a- kinds Lately?

Background - I could fill 10 pages with this, but I’ll try to keep it short. I play 10 - 15 hours/week on full pay, 10 hand 25c DDB QQ in the Midwest. Been doing it for 5 years plus with decent results. Since about July 2013…Not-so-much. I’ve gone about 2 months plus w/o a dealt 4OAK, altho I’ve had a few dealt QQ. Of course that means no four 2,3,4, or Aces. My W’2’s are non existent, very different results than previous years. Most other serious players I’ve talked to…same results.

Now I understand volatility and the implications if the casinos get caught gaffing machines. The way I understand it, machines are checked randomly. I believe gaming can check machines in 2 ways. One being they can check the “seal” on the chip…This would be pretty obvious. Two, they can supposedly also check the “thumbprint” of the chip software, that this is as it should be. I obviously don’t know much about this. My thoughts are it’s probably a number sequence or something that has to match another number sequence. My thinking is: If they are sophisticated enough to produce a “gaffed” chip, they would also have the “test” look pretty close to correct.

There have to be other serious QQ players out there. I’d be particularly interested in those that play 10 hand DDB. I’m about ready to ask to talk to gaming at my local casino. I don’t know what the results of that would be, but I’m pretty sure if I do, I’m going “all-in” . I will probably have to quit playing at that casino.

While I know this “random” check is supposedly done, but what is “random”, once a day, week month, year?

What is the chance if they only gaffed certain games, that that game would be the one checked. Not very hi, I would expect. Unfortunately, I don’t have hard and fast numbers or records, and what good would that do anyway. I’m pretty sure gaming is going to assume I’m just another befuddled, losing gambler. If you had asked me a year ago, "what do you believe the chances of gaffing are?, I would have answered…“near zero” Ask me that question today, the answer might be considerably higher.

BTW, I was in Vegas recently & played at Ellis Island and a little at South Point, with same results as locally, but certainly not enough play to determine anything.

I hope to get some answers here that may determine my future plans, but I don’t intend to keep up with what’s been going on lately. Thanks in advance for anything you “experts” can do to fill me in on anything you know about results and anything you can tell me about this "testing’ process.

#5

I don’t know or remember how often a dealt 4OAK should occur, but I suspect I could go back into one of my Dancer books to find out. It’s a little tuff to say exactly how many hands/ hour, etc I play cuz it depends if there’s points multipliers or I’m building points for a promo, Probably half the time I’m playing at “my” fast level…about 4722 H/Hr. Course that makes dealt hands 1/10 of that or about 450/hr. I haven’t really timed myself when I’m playing slower…probably 2/3rds that. So for arguments sake, at 300 dealt hands/hr, times 12 hours/wk times 8 (at least) weeks since I’ve hit dealt 4OAK…about 29K dealt hands since 4OAK.

#6

OK thanks. The rough number I’m coming up with is 9500 hands. I know there’s some solid math brains on here so I’ll present my approach and you guys can tell me where the holes are:

1 - I’m using numbers from WoO for QQ Double Bonus at: http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/quick-quads/

2 - I’m ignoring pay tables since we are talking about flopped hands here, the pay tables shouldn’t matter. So that gives me:

Aces - 0.00023

2-4 - 0.001205

NOTE: Its unclear whether these are flopped numbers or numbers for drawn hands. It might be the latter, but we can use these for now.

3 - These are mutually exclusive events so we can add them and come up with a combined probability of 0.001435. We will call this our n-proportion value

4 - The formula for significant events is summed as:

(Z-alpha/2) ^ 2 * n * (1-n) / E ^ 2

where Z-alpha represents our distribution and E represents the desired margin of error

5 - From a standard statistic t-table, for 99% distribution we draw a value of 2.576 for the Z-alpha/2 value. We then use an E value of 0.1% = 0.001

6 - That leaves us with: 2.576^20.0014350.998565 / 0.001^2 = 9508.674 or roughly 9500 hands

That number still strikes me as low. I’m going to guess that the numbers from #2 above are for drawn hands, not just flopped. I have a feeling the flopped numbers are much smaller than these. If someone has those, we can re-work using the formula above.

Thanks!

···

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:09 AM, dj…@…com [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

I don’t know or remember how often a dealt 4OAK should occur, but I suspect I could go back into one of my Dancer books to find out. It’s a little tuff to say exactly how many hands/ hour, etc I play cuz it depends if there’s points multipliers or I’m building points for a promo, Probably half the time I’m playing at “my” fast level…about 4722 H/Hr. Course that makes dealt hands 1/10 of that or about 450/hr. I haven’t really timed myself when I’m playing slower…probably 2/3rds that. So for arguments sake, at 300 dealt hands/hr, times 12 hours/wk times 8 (at least) weeks since I’ve hit dealt 4OAK…about 29K dealt hands since 4OAK.

#7

James Beam wrote:

OK thanks. The rough number I'm coming up with is 9500 hands. I know
there's some solid math brains on here so I'll present my approach and you
guys can tell me where the holes are:

1 - I'm using numbers from WoO for QQ Double Bonus at:
http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/quick-quads/

2 - I'm ignoring pay tables since we are talking about flopped hands here,
the pay tables shouldn't matter. So that gives me:
Aces - 0.00023
2-4 - 0.001205
NOTE: Its unclear whether these are flopped numbers or numbers for drawn
hands. It might be the latter, but we can use these for now.

Those are for drawn hands.

3 - These are mutually exclusive events so we can add them and come up with
a combined probability of 0.001435. We will call this our n-proportion value

4 - The formula for significant events is summed as:
(Z-alpha/2) ^ 2 * n * (1-n) / E ^ 2
where Z-alpha represents our distribution and E represents the desired
margin of error

5 - From a standard statistic t-table, for 99% distribution we draw a value
of 2.576 for the Z-alpha/2 value. We then use an E value of 0.1% = 0.001

6 - That leaves us with: 2.576^2*0.001435*0.998565 / 0.001^2 = 9508.674 or
roughly 9500 hands

That number still strikes me as low. I'm going to guess that the numbers
from #2 above are for drawn hands, not just flopped. I have a feeling the
flopped numbers are much smaller than these. If someone has those, we can
re-work using the formula above.

Each 4 of a kind (not including quick quads) is dealt every 54,145
hands. If you want to include dealt quick quads, each 3 of a kind is
dealt every 615.284 hands and every full house is dealt every 108,290
hands, so 222AA and 44422 are dealt every 108,290 hands and 333A2 and
444A3 are each dealt every 40,608.75 hands.

The problem I've always had with this approach is that you're still
left guessing. After you've analyzed your results and determined how
likely they were, you still don't know how likely it is that the
machine is gaffed.

#8

Well, thanks for your help so far. I didn't know where to go to find chance
for 4OAK on flop. So if I read correctly I take 54,145 divided by13 = 4165
for any 4OAK. So my roughly 29,000 hands puts me @ about 7 cycles.
Certainly possible, but still a little suspicious. I've been tracking other
factors.

I'm recording 40% -, 40%+, 100% -, 100%+, 3A -, 3A+, three 2,3,4-, three
2,3,4 +. Odd-, Odd+, as well as 4-to-royal. I'm calling Odd- those hands
where I start w/ 2/R & end up w/ 4/R or other strange looking plays. Odd+
is starting w/ 1pr, ending up w 4OAK, plus other strange occurrences. Of
course this does slow my play somewhat. Most of the other stuff looks
relatively OK, long term. It's the dealt 4OAK. I plan to stick w/ it for
now. I may research how to get ahold of gaming outside casino. Limited
research gave me info on Illinois gaming web site, but couldn't come up w/
phone # or email. I'll investigate further B4 I give up. I am after all
"hooked on QQ".

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 2:30 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Informal, SERIOUS survey on Quick Quads

James Beam wrote:

Each 4 of a kind (not including quick quads) is dealt every 54,145
hands. If you want to include dealt quick quads, each 3 of a kind is
dealt every 615.284 hands and every full house is dealt every 108,290
hands, so 222AA and 44422 are dealt every 108,290 hands and 333A2 and
444A3 are each dealt every 40,608.75 hands.

The problem I've always had with this approach is that you're still
left guessing. After you've analyzed your results and determined how
likely they were, you still don't know how likely it is that the
machine is gaffed.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

Going 29,000 rounds in row without a dealt natural four of a kind will happen about 1 in 1057.5 on a random machine. I wouldn’t call it “rigged” just yet on that fact.

I’m more wanting to know where 9/6 DDB w/QQ is in Illinois for quarters, it’s definitely not listed on VPFree2.

#10

In the spirit of the LVA boards: WHA???

So if not then, when would you consider it to be odd?

···

On May 29, 2014, at 3:28 PM, “tringlom…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Going 29,000 rounds in row without a dealt natural four of a kind will happen about 1 in 1057.5 on a random machine. I wouldn’t call it “rigged” just yet on that fact.

I’m more wanting to know where 9/6 DDB w/QQ is in Illinois for quarters, it’s definitely not listed on VPFree2.

#11

No one knows. That's the problem. I've probably gone more than 10
cycles without hitting a royal on a 4 card draw on a single line
machine. That may be "odd," but what do I do with that information?

···

funny.young.guy@gmail.com wrote:

In the spirit of the LVA boards: WHA???

So if not then, when would you consider it to be odd?

On May 29, 2014, at 3:28 PM, "tringlomane@yahoo.com [vpFREE]" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Going 29,000 rounds in row without a dealt natural four of a kind will happen about 1 in 1057.5 on a random machine. I wouldn't call it "rigged" just yet on that fact.

I'm more wanting to know where 9/6 DDB w/QQ is in Illinois for quarters, it's definitely not listed on VPFree2.

#12

Yeah, the tolerance to say “yeah, it’s rigged” is ill-defined because technically anything can happen on a random machine. But anyone that has strong math background should realize 1 in 1000 isn’t enough. Some unlucky sap has to be 1 in 1000.

I probably start wondering when I hit 1 in a million or more. Or several smaller events in the 5 to 6 digit range.

The strangest thing that ever happened to me wasn’t at video poker, but playing online poker on PokerStars, the most trustworthy site of all online poker. I got dealt 75432 4 times in a stretch of 16 hands. Fortunately for me this was a lowball game, so this was the best possible hand actually.

I did the math on this because I just had to know:

Probability of being dealt 75432 (no flush) in any given hand: 1 in 2548.

Probability of being dealt 75432 (no flush) 4 or more times in exactly 16 hands while only playing 16 hands lifetime: 1 in 23.25 billion.

But in reality, I played many more hands than just 16 in my life, so here are a couple more relevant numbers:

Probability of this ever happening within 300,000 hands (about how many hands I played before “Black Friday”): 1 in 311,849

Probability of this ever happening within 1,000,000 hands: 1 in 93,272

The original hand histories with timestamps can be found here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=36299004&postcount=17

Did I experience something that looks completely rigged? Yep. Do I think PokerStars is rigged? Nope.

#13

I think you’re being quick to dismiss the 29000 samples. It’s not just 1 of 1000, it’s 1 of 1000 of 29000 hands. If you take the summation of those independent trials you’d still have a very very small number

···

On May 29, 2014, at 5:27 PM, “tringlom…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Yeah, the tolerance to say “yeah, it’s rigged” is ill-defined because technically anything can happen on a random machine. But anyone that has strong math background should realize 1 in 1000 isn’t enough. Some unlucky sap has to be 1 in 1000.

I probably start wondering when I hit 1 in a million or more. Or several smaller events in the 5 to 6 digit range.

The strangest thing that ever happened to me wasn’t at video poker, but playing online poker on PokerStars, the most trustworthy site of all online poker. I got dealt 75432 4 times in a stretch of 16 hands. Fortunately for me this was a lowball game, so this was the best possible hand actually.

I did the math on this because I just had to know:

Probability of being dealt 75432 (no flush) in any given hand: 1 in 2548.

Probability of being dealt 75432 (no flush) 4 or more times in exactly 16 hands while only playing 16 hands lifetime: 1 in 23.25 billion.

But in reality, I played many more hands than just 16 in my life, so here are a couple more relevant numbers:

Probability of this ever happening within 300,000 hands (about how many hands I played before “Black Friday”): 1 in 311,849

Probability of this ever happening within 1,000,000 hands: 1 in 93,272

The original hand histories with timestamps can be found here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=36299004&postcount=17

Did I experience something that looks completely rigged? Yep. Do I think PokerStars is rigged? Nope.

#14

The odds of any dealt 4oak is 4,164 to 1. Why would they gaffe a machine when they have an edge on you? They can always lower the paytable if they want. Everyone who plays a lot has good and bad streaks.

#15

No, only the 29,000 initial deals matter. The OP was talking about 29,000 rounds in a row without dealt quads. The chances for that happening to anyone is simply (4164/4165)^29,000 = 0.000945666 = 1 in 1057.4558 That’s it.

If you would rather look at it terms of dealt quad cycles, you can do it this way (closest dealt quad cycle to original poster in bold):

All answers will be close to 1/e^cycles where e = 2.718281828459045

4165 rounds: ~1/e actual 0.3678352736 = 1 in 2.7186082246

8330 rounds: ~1/e^2 actual 0.1353027885 = 1 in 7.3908306791

12495 rounds: ~1/e^3 actual 0.0497691382 = 1 in 20.0927730712

16660 rounds: ~1/e^4 actual 0.0183068446 = 1 in 54.6243781272

20825 rounds: ~1/e^5 actual 0.0067339032 = 1 in 148.5022836427

24990 rounds: ~1/e^6 actual 0.0024769671 = 1 in 403.7195296895

29155 rounds: ~1/e^7 actual 0.0009111159 = 1 in 1097.5552338636

33320 rounds: ~1/e^8 actual 0.0003351406 = 1 in 2983.8226857834

37485 rounds: ~1/e^9 actual 0.0001232765 = 1 in 8111.8448944517

41650 rounds: ~1/e^10 actual 0.0000453455 = 1 in 22052.9282470973

Now all these results above WILL happen at some point on a random video poker machine. So just the 29,000 hands in a row without a dealt quad is not enough proof of anything “rigged”.

Keep in mind I have not considered any of the OP’s other claims at this point in a “rigged” determination. If you lump everything he wrote together, it’s possible the machine is rigged. The casino is well within its right to break multiple states’ laws and risk its future well-being by “rigging” machines. Rob Singer disturbingly emailed me about my previous response and called me an “addict” because I generally trust that casinos generally obey state laws. With the tons of 8/5 and 7/5 DDB that is constantly played in casinos across the country with over half of those players breaking 2 pair with Kings, Queens, or Jacks, why shouldn’t I?

#16

OK, this is exactly the discussion I hoped to get, altho I’d still like to here from other QQ players on their results lately. I’ve had other bad runs in the last 5 or so years (as well as some pretty good ones…3 royals in about 20 minutes of play, 2 on 3 hold, one on 2 hold), but never lasting near as long. My bankroll is still OK, my physiological bankroll…Not so much. Guess I’ll stick w/ it & try to ride it out.

BTW, I’m the only one that is playing this game, this strong at this casino. I have the game pretty well down pat using Dancer strategy along w penalty card notes, etc. The various benefits at this casino, just like all the rest have made this a game where I’m probably lucky to average playing about even odds with almost nonexistent point multipliers, downsized mailers, etc. these days.

Sorry, I won’t be giving away its location…there’s a reason it’s not in VP2. I think the philosophy of this site is it’s OK to keep something to yourself if giving it away will hurt your play. There was a time that this was worth driving to get to, now, not the case, but I don’t want any more completion for machines…there’s already enough nickel players(not full pay BTW) that getting a machine can be a problem.

#17

I don’t understand what insight you hope to gain from having players tell you their results. 90% of the QQ players will be playing on lesser games than what you’re playing on. The skill level of the players is a big unknown. It appears that losers complain more than winners brag (I’m not positive about this — but that’s the way it seems to me) so even if 47 people told you they were losing at QQ what would that tell you?

Even if they did tell you, players report scores differently. Some take out tips. Some don’t. Some include free play as “profit.” Some include it in a separate category. It’s also fair to assume that not everybody here even keeps records and memories aren’t always reliable. And as you said people don’t report everything on vpfree2 — people don’t always report their scores accurately. Maybe they want you to think they lose more (or win more) than they actually do.

For me personally, I play the same game for $1 Ten Play. I’ve had huge swings both ways. That’s the nature of DDB. My basic assumption remains that the games are fair and if I continue to play it accurately under the right promotions, good things will happen to me. That philosophy continues to serve me well.

Bob

···
#18 
 Bob, I was at a seminar recently and you seemed to scoff at those people who play DDB.   I'm surprised you are playing this game, BTW: I was the guy who had jet lag....Rod
···

On Friday, May 30, 2014 4:45 PM, “Bob Dancer bobdance…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com> wrote:

I don’t understand what insight you hope to gain from having players tell you their results. 90% of the QQ players will be playing on lesser games than what you’re playing on. The skill level of the players is a big unknown. It appears that losers complain more than winners brag (I’m not positive about this — but that’s the way it seems to me) so even if 47 people told you they were losing at QQ what would that tell you?

Even if they did tell you, players report scores differently. Some take out tips. Some don’t. Some include free play as “profit.” Some include it in a separate category. It’s also fair to assume that not everybody here even keeps records and memories aren’t always reliable. And as you said people don’t report everything on vpfree2 — people don’t always report their scores accurately. Maybe they want you to think they lose more (or win more) than they actually do.

For me personally, I play the same game for $1 Ten Play. I’ve had huge swings both ways. That’s the nature of DDB. My basic assumption remains that the games are fair and if I continue to play it accurately under the right promotions, good things will happen to me. That philosophy continues to serve me well.

Bob

#19

Thanks, Bob, you were one of the people I was hoping to hear from, so sounds like your results are as normal. I guess I’ll let this be the last word on this. As I stated, it isn’t just that 4OAK’s that bothering me. Last nite was typical results of lately. 15,000+ hands, so 150 or so flops. One (very rare (for me lately) dealt QQ. Of course no dealt 4AOK. Results, pretty good loss. Also had 3/A - no 4th. Previously had 13 B4 one showed up. Not to say I haven’t had A’s. During that run had 1 A, ended up w 4/K…, last nite, held 1, ended up w/4.

Hard to believe they’d take a chance at getting caught, Going to try to contact gaming this week outside of casino. Don’t know how long I’ll keep this up, but it SHOULD be the best deal going around here. I’ll report back on results if anything to report.

#20

This happened at South Point when I was there in April. Playing quarter 5 play I was dealt 4 of a kind 8’s. But I play fast and missed one of the 8’s! An attendant got a suit and they examined the machine and paid me for the 4oak in cash. South Point is class!