vpFREE2 Forums

Info when you cash a ticket

#1

Can't imagine what the IRS would do with such information, except perhaps to use it to check a return to see if ANY gambling activity is reported. The fact that a given individual cashed a TITO ticket gives absolutely no information as to whether they won or lost, and the IRS has already (as I understand it) decided that even casino-issued win-loss summaries at end of year are not "evidence" of gambling wins/losses, although they might be persuasive. Such win-loss statements, if shared with the IRS, MIGHT be of more use to them.

If, of course, one is gambling, one is required to report the results of one's activity on your return, so if you document that you played by cashing a ticket but don't have any gambling activity on your return, you might be subject to audit, and perhaps even fraud charges for failure to report income. Perhaps the kiosks that redeem TITO tickets are a better choice, but I'm sure once the ticket is printed, IF the casino wanted to give info to the IRS, they can do so no matter how the ticket is cashed.

I suppose one could argue that one left their card in a machine and forgot it (I am pretty sure I lost a card yesterday that way), and that the activity on the TITO was not their own (no such luck, when I returned, the card was gone) -- but you still have left a trail that you've played, even if you say you just left a card in the machine.

--BG

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================

1c. Re: Info when you cash a ticket
Posted by: "tomflush" tomflush@nyc.rr.com
ny_urban_cowboy
Date: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:59 pm ((PDT))

> Wow, very interesting. Hopefully this has caught a few
would be thieves
> along the way. <
Yeah, like maybe this information is gathered and
sent straight to the IRS,
since casino's also have your Social Security number.

#2

Not everyone who gambles is required to report gambling activity on their return. The IRS only wants to know about WINNINGS. Most people lose you know. These big giant gambling casinos don't exist because people are winning. Although that is the illusiion they wish to portray. VERY few people who enter the casino actually come out ahead for the year. Most of them are posting on this board, LOL.

1

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Barry Glazer <b.glazer@...> wrote:

Can't imagine what the IRS would do with such information, except perhaps to use it to check a return to see if ANY gambling activity is reported. The fact that a given individual cashed a TITO ticket gives absolutely no information as to whether they won or lost, and the IRS has already (as I understand it) decided that even casino-issued win-loss summaries at end of year are not "evidence" of gambling wins/losses, although they might be persuasive. Such win-loss statements, if shared with the IRS, MIGHT be of more use to them.

If, of course, one is gambling, one is required to report the results of one's activity on your return, so if you document that you played by cashing a ticket but don't have any gambling activity on your return, you might be subject to audit, and perhaps even fraud charges for failure to report income. Perhaps the kiosks that redeem TITO tickets are a better choice, but I'm sure once the ticket is printed, IF the casino wanted to give info to the IRS, they can do so no matter how the ticket is cashed.

I suppose one could argue that one left their card in a machine and forgot it (I am pretty sure I lost a card yesterday that way), and that the activity on the TITO was not their own (no such luck, when I returned, the card was gone) -- but you still have left a trail that you've played, even if you say you just left a card in the machine.

--BG

> 1c. Re: Info when you cash a ticket
> Posted by: "tomflush" tomflush@...
> ny_urban_cowboy
> Date: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:59 pm ((PDT))
>
>
>
> > Wow, very interesting. Hopefully this has caught a few
> would be thieves
> > along the way. <
> Yeah, like maybe this information is gathered and
> sent straight to the IRS,
> since casino's also have your Social Security number.
>

#3

Everyone who gambles is supposed to report wins and losses, even if they are a net loser for the year. But probably people who don't get W2G's or 1099's or generate SAR's tend to forget this and get away with it, for now. But I think as soon as you get your first W2G, and don't report it, you'll get a challenge letter from the IRS. And if you report winnings less than your W2G's or 1099's, you'll also likely get a challenge letter.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc419.html

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "the7thwarrior" <Judy@...> wrote:

Not everyone who gambles is required to report gambling activity on their return. The IRS only wants to know about WINNINGS. Most people lose you know. These big giant gambling casinos don't exist because people are winning. Although that is the illusiion they wish to portray. VERY few people who enter the casino actually come out ahead for the year. Most of them are posting on this board, LOL.

1
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Barry Glazer <b.glazer@> wrote:
>
> Can't imagine what the IRS would do with such information, except perhaps to use it to check a return to see if ANY gambling activity is reported. The fact that a given individual cashed a TITO ticket gives absolutely no information as to whether they won or lost, and the IRS has already (as I understand it) decided that even casino-issued win-loss summaries at end of year are not "evidence" of gambling wins/losses, although they might be persuasive. Such win-loss statements, if shared with the IRS, MIGHT be of more use to them.
>
> If, of course, one is gambling, one is required to report the results of one's activity on your return, so if you document that you played by cashing a ticket but don't have any gambling activity on your return, you might be subject to audit, and perhaps even fraud charges for failure to report income. Perhaps the kiosks that redeem TITO tickets are a better choice, but I'm sure once the ticket is printed, IF the casino wanted to give info to the IRS, they can do so no matter how the ticket is cashed.
>
> I suppose one could argue that one left their card in a machine and forgot it (I am pretty sure I lost a card yesterday that way), and that the activity on the TITO was not their own (no such luck, when I returned, the card was gone) -- but you still have left a trail that you've played, even if you say you just left a card in the machine.
>
> --BG
> ================
>
>
> > 1c. Re: Info when you cash a ticket
> > � � Posted by: "tomflush" tomflush@
> > ny_urban_cowboy
> > � � Date: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:59 pm ((PDT))
> >
> >
> >
> > > Wow, very interesting. Hopefully this has caught a few
> > would be thieves
> > > along the way. <
> > Yeah, like maybe� this information is gathered and
> > sent straight to the IRS,
> > since casino's also have your Social Security number.
> >
>

#4

<<Not everyone who gambles is required to report gambling activity on their return. The IRS only wants to know about WINNINGS.>>

Sorry, but this is very dangerous misinformation. From "Tax Help for Gamblers":
"Many people think they understand the gambling-income concept. "Hey, I'd be glad to report income for a year in which I actually won money gambling, but that hasn't happened yet." What they don't understand is that the IRS is not talking about one net win-or-loss figure at the end of the tax year, but win/loss figures for individual gambling sessions. They say: You cannot net out your gambling for the year. You must add up all the winning sessions and all the losing sessions separately. To emphasize this, the IRS puts this, in plain non-technical easy-to-understand language, in the instructions that come with your tax forms: You cannot reduce your gambling winnings by your gambling losses and report the difference."

True, most casual gamblers do not report their gambling action. But if you ever get even one W-2G, you appear on the IRS radar - and will have to start reporting your gambling action. This can cause the uninformed a lot of grief - that is why I wrote the tax book, to help you know the facts and how to navigate those rough IRS waters!!!!

···

________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

Just curious as to how that adds up to a DIFFERENT number than totaling the
year and then adding or subtracting? I am not doubting you at all just
saying that the IRS seems to want MORE paperwork rather than less? Idiotic…

Lisa

<<Not everyone who gambles is required to report gambling activity on their
return. The IRS only wants to know about WINNINGS.>>

Sorry, but this is very dangerous misinformation. From "Tax Help for
Gamblers":
"Many people think they understand the gambling-income concept. "Hey, I'd be
glad to report income for a year in which I actually won money gambling, but
that hasn't happened yet." What they don't understand is that the IRS is not
talking about one net win-or-loss figure at the end of the tax year, but
win/loss figures for individual gambling sessions. They say: You cannot net
out your gambling for the year. You must add up all the winning sessions and
all the losing sessions separately. To emphasize this, the IRS puts this, in
plain non-technical easy-to-understand language, in the instructions that
come with your tax forms: You cannot reduce your gambling winnings by your
gambling losses and report the difference."

True, most casual gamblers do not report their gambling action. But if you
ever get even one W-2G, you appear on the IRS radar - and will have to start
reporting your gambling action. This can cause the uninformed a lot of grief
- that is why I wrote the tax book, to help you know the facts and how to
navigate those rough IRS waters!!!!

···

________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

Lisa, that's a great question and on the surface it does not make sense why they want it done that way. My advice is to pick up a copy of the book. I did a few years ago and think it's a must read for anyone who enjoys gambling. My friends make fun of me whenever I log my win/loss every time I leave a table/machine but they simply don't understand the potential tax issues.

Previously I only played blackjack so while I may have one thousands at a time there was never any government forms to fill out, however now I am on my quest for my first royal flush and I know that I will be filling out a form eventually...which will mark the first year that I will have to report my gambling wins/losses.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <viajo1964@...> wrote:

Just curious as to how that adds up to a DIFFERENT number than totaling the
year and then adding or subtracting? I am not doubting you at all just
saying that the IRS seems to want MORE paperwork rather than less? Idiotic…

Lisa

<<Not everyone who gambles is required to report gambling activity on their
return. The IRS only wants to know about WINNINGS.>>

Sorry, but this is very dangerous misinformation. From "Tax Help for
Gamblers":
"Many people think they understand the gambling-income concept. "Hey, I'd be
glad to report income for a year in which I actually won money gambling, but
that hasn't happened yet." What they don't understand is that the IRS is not
talking about one net win-or-loss figure at the end of the tax year, but
win/loss figures for individual gambling sessions. They say: You cannot net
out your gambling for the year. You must add up all the winning sessions and
all the losing sessions separately. To emphasize this, the IRS puts this, in
plain non-technical easy-to-understand language, in the instructions that
come with your tax forms: You cannot reduce your gambling winnings by your
gambling losses and report the difference."

True, most casual gamblers do not report their gambling action. But if you
ever get even one W-2G, you appear on the IRS radar - and will have to start
reporting your gambling action. This can cause the uninformed a lot of grief
- that is why I wrote the tax book, to help you know the facts and how to
navigate those rough IRS waters!!!!
________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

The IRS doesn't necessarily want more paperwork - they just want more tax money!

As an educational exercise (assuming you're not already dealing with large W2-G amounts), take your most recent 1040 form, add say $200,000 to the line for gambling winnings on the front page of the form, and deduct the same $200,000 as an itemized deduction. Recalculate you tax liability. Pay careful attention to the various line items that are affected, limited, or deleted entirely by your suddenly much higher "income". You'll see why netting out is not allowed.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <viajo1964@...> wrote:

Just curious as to how that adds up to a DIFFERENT number than totaling the
year and then adding or subtracting? I am not doubting you at all just
saying that the IRS seems to want MORE paperwork rather than less? Idiotic…

#8

<<As an educational exercise (assuming you're not already dealing with large W2-G amounts), take your most recent 1040 form, add say $200,000 to the line for gambling winnings on the front page of the form, and deduct the same $200,000 as an itemized deduction. Recalculate you tax liability. Pay careful attention to the various line items that are affected, limited, or deleted entirely by your suddenly much higher "income". You'll see why netting out is not allowed.>>

This was a good example. Another one, for someone who perhaps has fewer W-2G's AND does not ordinarily itemize, may be even more illuminating. Perhaps a dollar player may get 3 or 4 royals a year - or use any number you want as your gambling income - and then see how that hurts!!!!

···

________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

Jean is right on. I believe that many taxpayers who have over $ 10,000 per
year in gambling winnings with corresponding losses on schedule A don’t
realize that they are paying more in income taxes as a result of this stupid
reporting method. It has impacted exemption allowances, itemized deductions,
making workers pay etc. over the past several years. In addition, it impacts
social Medicare costs for retirees. The greater the amount of W2-G winnings
the more impact on ones tax liability.

The sad part is that we are paying more income tax then non-gamblers who
have the same disposable income. What do you think would happen if stock
traders had to report cost on schedule A rather than just reporting the net
gain on stock sales? Talk about discrimination!

···

_____

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
Jean Scott
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 10:54 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Info when you cash a ticket

<<As an educational exercise (assuming you're not already dealing with large
W2-G amounts), take your most recent 1040 form, add say $200,000 to the line
for gambling winnings on the front page of the form, and deduct the same
$200,000 as an itemized deduction. Recalculate you tax liability. Pay
careful attention to the various line items that are affected, limited, or
deleted entirely by your suddenly much higher "income". You'll see why
netting out is not allowed.>>

This was a good example. Another one, for someone who perhaps has fewer
W-2G's AND does not ordinarily itemize, may be even more illuminating.
Perhaps a dollar player may get 3 or 4 royals a year - or use any number you
want as your gambling income - and then see how that hurts!!!!
________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]