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I need help with the math

Casino West at the Riverside Resort will double the payout on the first 20 natural club royals beginning April 1st. The only playable game is NSUD at the dollar level.
   
  The Casino also pays double for natural quad 4s: Four 4s pays $40, and four 4s with a duece pays $150.
   
  Can anyone help me with the ER and Var of this game?

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Casino West at the Riverside Resort will double the payout on the

first 20 natural club royals beginning April 1st. The only playable
game is NSUD at the dollar level.

   
  The Casino also pays double for natural quad 4s: Four 4s pays

$40, and four 4s with a duece pays $150.

   
  Can anyone help me with the ER and Var of this game?

The 2x club royal adds about .5, the quad 4s adds about .1

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Steve Cotten <w8n4godot@...> wrote:

_________________________________________________________________________

paladingaming.net

An extremely, if not perfectly, accurate, way to get the ER is to take
the average of all the values of the games, assuming there are 4
different games, one with each suit. 3 of the 4 games would pay -
.27% and the one with clubs would pay 1.74%. The only way this
wouldn't be completely accurate is if there are hands for which there
is some gain by keeping the club royal draw that there wouldn't be in
the games that would be played with the other suits. I'm still not
sure I said that right, but ace, ten of clubs, queen, jack of hearts
is an example of that kind of hand. Those are so rare that they're of
negligible importance, though.

Didn't they double the payout on the first 20 natural royals,
regardless of suit, last April, or was that 2 years ago?

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Casino West at the Riverside Resort will double the payout on the first 20 natural club royals beginning April 1st. The only playable game is NSUD at the dollar level.
  
The Casino also pays double for natural quad 4s: Four 4s pays $40, and four 4s with a duece pays $150.
  
Can anyone help me with the ER and Var of this game?

---------------------------------
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Steve Cotten wrote:

Casino West at the Riverside Resort will double the payout on the
first 20 natural club royals beginning April 1st. The only playable
game is NSUD at the dollar level.
The Casino also pays double for natural quad 4s: Four 4s pays $40,
and four 4s with a duece pays $150.
Can anyone help me with the ER and Var of this game?

Tom Robertson replied:

An extremely, if not perfectly, accurate, way to get the ER is to
take the average of all the values of the games, assuming there are
4 different games, one with each suit. 3 of the 4 games would pay -
.27% and the one with clubs would pay 1.74%. The only way this
wouldn't be completely accurate is if there are hands for which
there is some gain by keeping the club royal draw that there
wouldn't be in the games that would be played with the other suits.

Not a bad suggestion, Tom. I took a "Q&D" approach that assumes the
player wants to go at this without changing strategy. Not as
accurate, but it might well be a more realistic assumption.

To get an idea of what might be given up without changing strategy for
the double club royal, I looked at an earlier workup of the 8000rf 9/6
DB game that can be found in AC. In that case, if you play the 4000
cr. rf strategy, you give up .33%.

While not a perfect measure of what you sacrifice if you make no
strategy change here for the clubs, I'm quite satisfied with it.
Allow for the lower RF contribution in a wild card game and that
you're only talking about 1 suit vs. all 4 in the example above, and
I'd say that you're looking at giving up less than .07%. Running a
handful of test hands through Winpoker or Frugal hand analysis and you
should be able to get a grip on the strategy changes that would recoup
most of that .07%.

So, using the Deuces Deluxe game template in WinPoker (which
accomodates natural quads), and simply doing a pro rata allocation of
the RF, 5K, and 4K hand occurance to split out 1/4 of the RF hands as
clubs and 1/12 of the quads as naturals (I roughed the 5K with natural
quads as 1/12 * 1/12 of the natural quads), I arrive at an ER of
100.25% and variance of 36.8.

Because of the infrequent occurance of natural quad 4's and the fairly
low bonus relative to that infrequency, the quad bonuses only add
about .07% to the ER. You're getting .46% out of the RF bonus. As
noted, there's up to an additional .07% to be picked up through some
decent strategy changes -- likely involving things like dropping a
deuce when you have 3 club RF cards. (To be honest, I'd expect it's
closer to .04% -- in DBDJ, one of the most frequent strategy change
involves breaking a high pair for any 3 RF ... I wouldn't think there
would be any change nearly as frequent in this NSUD game.)

- Harry

Casino West at the Riverside Resort will double the payout on the

first 20 natural club royals beginning April 1st. The only playable
game is NSUD at the dollar level.

   
  The Casino also pays double for natural quad 4s: Four 4s pays

$40, and four 4s with a duece pays $150.

   
  Can anyone help me with the ER and Var of this game?

I thought I posted it earlier this morning, but it didn't make it...

essentially, about .5% on the club royal, about .1% on the 4s, with
and without the deuce.

have fun...

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Steve Cotten <w8n4godot@...> wrote:

Yes, Tom you are correct. They did the same promotion last year and two
years ago with double royals in all suits. This is an anniversary
celebration for the opening of Casino West, and this promotion is good
only in this casino section, not the entire casino. At least that is
how they have done it in the last two years. They put up a board with a
running count of the double royals hit.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <thomasrrobertson@...>
wrote:

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Didn't they double the payout on the first 20 natural royals,
regardless of suit, last April, or was that 2 years ago?