Thanks to Jean Scott, my bankroll for playing Video Poker has lasted for years. Without her books I wouldn't have had a clue. I've got to be one of her biggest fans 
There's a lot more like me than the naysayers.
I Just Have to Say It
I've got to join in with this sentiment. Before I started reading her books, and Bob Dancer's books, I really didn't have a clue. I was into poker pretty seriously for years, and now looking back I realize how foolish I was not to expand my knowledge a long time ago.
My compliments to someone like Palladin who apparently was smart enough to figure out the score without help from Jean or Bob. From what I have read of Palladin on this board, I know he is obviously very smart also. And I feel his pain, I really do. If I had been smart enough to be in his shoes a couple decades ago, I would probably also be sad about all of this possibly coming to a near end soon. I hope it doesn't, but I can sympathize with his frustration.
But back to the subject, I owe a lot to Jean Scott's educational efforts. Thank you Jean Scott!
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <vpstarr1@...> wrote:
Thanks to Jean Scott, my bankroll for playing Video Poker has lasted for years. Without her books I wouldn't have had a clue. I've got to be one of her biggest fans
I agree. Because of the VP books and software I am able to go into Vegas once or twice a year with everything comped and a couple of hundred bucks in freeplay to get me started. Much better then my first few trips paying for hotels, meals and losing much more. In fact, it now takes quite a bit of bad luck on any given trip for me to lose at all. I wonder why palladin bothers to post at all on a forum dedicated to educating players about VP play. After all isn't the forum itself destroying his plays as much as Jean and Bob.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <vpstarr1@...> wrote:
Thanks to Jean Scott, my bankroll for playing Video Poker has lasted for years. Without her books I wouldn't have had a clue. I've got to be one of her biggest fans
I wonder why palladin bothers to post at all on a forum dedicated to educating players about VP play. After all isn't the forum itself destroying his plays as much as Jean and Bob.
Actually, I think you can learn from all three of them. Paladin is the FIRST guy I want to read on this forum.
Perhaps we should take a vote to get rid of vpfree.
Hey I've got an idea. We could start making posts about how the best thing that ever happened to us was the casinos getting rid of FPDW. It would be like reverse psychology. We all say how great it is that there's no longer any dollar FPDW. The suits read it, and then soon the dollar FPDW machines start popping up everywhere. Don't throw us in the briar patch!
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpearlkc" <EAtkinson@...> wrote:
Document this or retract it.
vpFREE Administrator
···
On 24 Feb 2010 at 4:46, WP SF wrote:
... Look at Dancer, he probably can't play almost anywhere in
Vegas anymore, that's gotta be killing him, because he's a
junkie, so now he's playing the other side, telling the casinos
specifically who are the skilled players ...
(portions redacted at mod request)
VPFree has saved the casinos millions of dollars. There's no getting around it.
You're interested in comps, that's fine. I saw something where I could make
several hundred thousand every year. It's about over now, it's been a great
ride, but it could have lasted a lot longer.
Earl, my man, let me offer you an anecdote from your burg of KC. Used to be all
over Missouri, and a tribal casino near Wichita, All American from quarters to
dollars; Harrahs NKC had it up to $2. Now, some of this is the evolution of VP
players, some of this is the Internet, some of it is the advance in training
software, but mysteriously, the full pay version slowly went away, casino after
casino. But people couldn't stop chattering away online about how wonderful
these games were (although the chatter was absent when discussing the occasional
103% super pay game lol).
There might be a full pay AA in KC for quarters, but it's almost all gone now.
Why should the casino offer a game it's going to lose money on?
See, you can poke the bear so many times before the bear pokes back. The problem
is that there's this prevailing attitude of "the casino won't mind." I swear to
God, people must lose 100IQ points when going into a casino. I must have have
said this countless times, but I guess I have to say it one more time: the
casinos are not charities, they are not here to make you money, make me money,
they are not non-profit organizations. I have no clue whatsoever why people
would think differently? It's really stupid.
Twice in my career as an AP I have watched the Internet (or more precisely the
Internet personalities on these fora who fancied themselves knowledgeable)
destroy profitable situations in both blackjack and machines. Where two years
ago, 1% plays abounded (and five years ago, several 2 and 3% plays as well), .75
these days is gold. We're now looking at lower risk plays for dollars with a low
edge rather than a big EV% and certainty.
A lot of what's happened in VP is both due to the financial crisis and the
current economic situation. The decisions to take HET and Stations private were
poor ones. Regarding the current economic situation, well, it's taken a lot of
live money out of play so holds are down.
Downgrades, no mailings, player account revocations, welcome to local LV poker
2010. And, it's inevitably coming to your town at some point...oh, you live in
KC, it already has.
Now, as to Mr. Earl's question...let me put it this way, I have usually thought
it to be a good idea to insulate myself from the horde of local LV pros. They
can have Vegas. There's enough stuff out there that's acceptable to keep me
busy, but I think I'm going back to the day job next year. Because this deal is
pretty much over.
>
I wonder why palladin bothers to post at all on a forum dedicated to
educating players about VP play. After all isn't the forum itself destroying his
plays as much as Jean and Bob.
>
Actually, I think you can learn from all three of them. Paladin is the FIRST
guy I want to read on this forum.
Perhaps we should take a vote to get rid of vpfree.
Hey I've got an idea. We could start making posts about how the best thing
that ever happened to us was the casinos getting rid of FPDW. It would be like
reverse psychology. We all say how great it is that there's no longer any
dollar FPDW. The suits read it, and then soon the dollar FPDW machines start
popping up everywhere. Don't throw us in the briar patch!
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpearlkc" <EAtkinson@> wrote:
VPFree has saved the casinos millions of dollars. There's no getting around it.
This is better written as "VPFree has saved the casinos and its participants millions of dollars. There's no getting around it."
This is a 2 way club and must be , to provide the meaningful service which it does.
You're interested in comps, that's fine. I saw something where I could make
several hundred thousand every year. It's about over now, it's been a great
ride, but it could have lasted a lot longer.
Would you mind taking pictures of your preposterous claims with some reliable backup witness's like Dancer , Scott , Ski, Paymar, or Hughe's saying - Paladin was correct, this play actually existed , this is exactly the way it was and how it worked. I frankly don't believe most of the a-posteriori war stories , and maintain - hindsight is 20/20 and serves no purpose otherwise.
You fail to mention in your diatribe, the advent of machine and network server based statistical analysis software, that may ( and now does ) have a dramatic effect on whether a slot director keeps or pulls certain machines.
···
----- Original Message ----- From: "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:13 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: I Just Have to Say It
Not sure what makes you think that any of the above mentioned could back up his plays when, in fact, these plays are not in Vegas. He mentions not playing in Vegas many times. You want pictures? You have to be kidding, stories are stories. We all know VP is taking a dive whether Paladin had a great play or not. They dont have a bearing on the discussion.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:13 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: I Just Have to Say It>
> VPFree has saved the casinos millions of dollars. There's no getting
> around it.
This is better written as "VPFree has saved the casinos and its participants
millions of dollars. There's no getting around it."
This is a 2 way club and must be , to provide the meaningful service which
it does.> You're interested in comps, that's fine. I saw something where I could
> make
> several hundred thousand every year. It's about over now, it's been a
> great
> ride, but it could have lasted a lot longer.Would you mind taking pictures of your preposterous claims with some
reliable backup witness's like Dancer , Scott , Ski, Paymar, or Hughe's
saying - Paladin was correct, this play actually existed , this is exactly
the way it was and how it worked. I frankly don't believe most of the
a-posteriori war stories , and maintain - hindsight is 20/20 and serves no
purpose otherwise.
You fail to mention in your diatribe, the advent of machine and network
server based statistical analysis software, that may ( and now does ) have
a dramatic effect on whether a slot director keeps or pulls certain
machines.
I remember the AA thing in KC and used to play the quarter machines at the Isle of Capri on triple points days. Being a recreational player I never had the bankroll for the dollars also available. Anyway, on april 8th 2005 someone posted on the vpfreekc forum that $5.00 AA had been added to some gamemakers at Harrahs nkc. On may 14, a little over a month later, it was posted that there was no more All American at any level. A few weeks after that I was playing my 100 play penny fullpay JOB, a great game for a risk averse comp loving lowroller like me and struck up a conversation with a guy playing next to me in town from St. Louis. Our conversation got around to what had happened to the All American at Harrahs. He told me that a VP team he had seen around St Louis had come into Kansas City and played the $5.00 machines from the time the place opened at 8:00 in the morning until closing. He told me this went on for a few days until the $5.00 was removed one night. I think all the other AA was removed from Harrahs about the same time. This is only a second hand story so who knows?
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
Earl, my man, let me offer you an anecdote from your burg of KC. Used to be all
over Missouri, and a tribal casino near Wichita, All American from quarters to
dollars; Harrahs NKC had it up to $2. Now, some of this is the evolution of VP
Sounds believable. Casino got action they didn't need, and then over-reacted and wiped out everything.
There needs to be a happy medium. A situation "too juicy" is apt to be unstable, and short-lived.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpearlkc" <EAtkinson@...> wrote:
I remember the AA thing in KC and used to play the quarter machines at the Isle of Capri on triple points days. Being a recreational player I never had the bankroll for the dollars also available. Anyway, on april 8th 2005 someone posted on the vpfreekc forum that $5.00 AA had been added to some gamemakers at Harrahs nkc. On may 14, a little over a month later, it was posted that there was no more All American at any level. A few weeks after that I was playing my 100 play penny fullpay JOB, a great game for a risk averse comp loving lowroller like me and struck up a conversation with a guy playing next to me in town from St. Louis. Our conversation got around to what had happened to the All American at Harrahs. He told me that a VP team he had seen around St Louis had come into Kansas City and played the $5.00 machines from the time the place opened at 8:00 in the morning until closing. He told me this went on for a few days until the $5.00 was removed one night. I think all the other AA was removed from Harrahs about the same time. This is only a second hand story so who knows?
It might have had something to do with the fact that some of those $5 machines were super pay (250 quads)and the people playing them had NV driver's licenses, much to the chagrin of the locals who wanted to play the machines.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpearlkc" <EAtkinson@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@> wrote:
> Earl, my man, let me offer you an anecdote from your burg of KC. Used to be all
> over Missouri, and a tribal casino near Wichita, All American from quarters to
> dollars; Harrahs NKC had it up to $2. Now, some of this is the evolution of VP
I remember the AA thing in KC and used to play the quarter machines at the Isle of Capri on triple points days. Being a recreational player I never had the bankroll for the dollars also available. Anyway, on april 8th 2005 someone posted on the vpfreekc forum that $5.00 AA had been added to some gamemakers at Harrahs nkc. On may 14, a little over a month later, it was posted that there was no more All American at any level. A few weeks after that I was playing my 100 play penny fullpay JOB, a great game for a risk averse comp loving lowroller like me and struck up a conversation with a guy playing next to me in town from St. Louis. Our conversation got around to what had happened to the All American at Harrahs. He told me that a VP team he had seen around St Louis had come into Kansas City and played the $5.00 machines from the time the place opened at 8:00 in the morning until closing. He told me this went on for a few days until the $5.00 was removed one night. I think all the other AA was removed from Harrahs about the same time. This is only a second hand story so who knows?
Naaah, I'm making all this up as I go along.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai" <gofaster87@...> wrote:
Not sure what makes you think that any of the above mentioned could back up his plays when, in fact, these plays are not in Vegas. He mentions not playing in Vegas many times. You want pictures? You have to be kidding, stories are stories. We all know VP is taking a dive whether Paladin had a great play or not. They dont have a bearing on the discussion.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@>
> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:13 AM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: I Just Have to Say It
>
>
> >
> > VPFree has saved the casinos millions of dollars. There's no getting
> > around it.
> This is better written as "VPFree has saved the casinos and its participants
> millions of dollars. There's no getting around it."
> This is a 2 way club and must be , to provide the meaningful service which
> it does.
>
> > You're interested in comps, that's fine. I saw something where I could
> > make
> > several hundred thousand every year. It's about over now, it's been a
> > great
> > ride, but it could have lasted a lot longer.
>
> Would you mind taking pictures of your preposterous claims with some
> reliable backup witness's like Dancer , Scott , Ski, Paymar, or Hughe's
> saying - Paladin was correct, this play actually existed , this is exactly
> the way it was and how it worked. I frankly don't believe most of the
> a-posteriori war stories , and maintain - hindsight is 20/20 and serves no
> purpose otherwise.
> You fail to mention in your diatribe, the advent of machine and network
> server based statistical analysis software, that may ( and now does ) have
> a dramatic effect on whether a slot director keeps or pulls certain
> machines.
>
Holy crap, I didn't know there was such a thing. Is that the "super game" thingy you were talking about? That's like almost 3%. How often was there an AA game with 250 for quads? I've never heard of it till now.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
It might have had something to do with the fact that some of those $5 machines were super pay (250 quads)and the people playing them had NV driver's licenses, much to the chagrin of the locals who wanted to play the machines.
The AA play in KC, St Louis, and Topeka KS was a great play and lasted a long time. I still think the main reason these plays disappeared is that some of the players decided to make their living playing AA 40 to 60hours a week. The clueless players would lose 2% or more, but if the AP players play 40 plus hours a week and never allow a ploppy on the machine even the idiot casino execs are going to catch on. This went on for several years at Prairie Band before they pulled the AA.
By the way the $5 AA play at Harrahs KC was announced right here on VP free. I knew local APs or out of town APs would burn this down in no time and take the lower denom plays out at the same time.
I still have my day job because I always knew good plays would not last because too many greedy people refuse to play it slow and make the play last. Dancer and Scott are not to blame it is human nature.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@> wrote:
>
> It might have had something to do with the fact that some of those $5 machines were super pay (250 quads)and the people playing them had NV driver's licenses, much to the chagrin of the locals who wanted to play the machines.Holy crap, I didn't know there was such a thing. Is that the "super game" thingy you were talking about? That's like almost 3%. How often was there an AA game with 250 for quads? I've never heard of it till now.
That used to be all over the place. You just had to look for a Bally's multigame and then try to get on when the Pick'em players weren't playing. The night shift was usually good. Sometimes management would knock the quads down to 200, but a power outage would reset to full pay quads=250 and the game would be on again. Most people wouldn't play the 200 game, it was considered too complicated and too tight.
If you have one of the computer simulators, just set the paytable like this and give it a try, see how you do:
4000-1000-250-40-40-40-15-5-5
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
Holy crap, I didn't know there was such a thing. Is that the "super game" thingy you were talking about? That's like almost 3%. How often was there an AA game with 250 for quads? I've never heard of it till now.
Either some people have real short memories or they're incredibly naive. It seems like we have this discussion about every six months.
FTR, the best stuff I've seen in the past few years hasn't been in the Pacific time zone. Just too much competition.
As far as the AA in Missouri/Kansas. Oh yes, it's not a fairy tale. I personally did quite well on it through the years.
I could go on for quite a while but my time is short. I have a great play in Asia that I've been hustling the past several days (skeptics, feel free to verify the IP address of this post..haha). It's not traditional AP work but it sure is enjoyable.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
Naaah, I'm making all this up as I go along.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai" <gofaster87@> wrote:
>
> Not sure what makes you think that any of the above mentioned could back up his plays when, in fact, these plays are not in Vegas. He mentions not playing in Vegas many times. You want pictures? You have to be kidding, stories are stories. We all know VP is taking a dive whether Paladin had a great play or not. They dont have a bearing on the discussion.
I wonder what burning down a $5.00 AA play in Kansas City would have looked like in 2005. At the begining of the play the player would be armed with a 20 spin bankroll due to the $500, every 2 hour, loss limit mandated by law at the time. I knew higher end table players that would take home high denomination chips when they won to get around this. It seems that unless quads were hit fairly quickly the bankroll would be gone long before the next 20 spins could be purchased. Once a few quads were hit and the 20 spins bought a few times things might have smoothed out. A local may have had a pocket full of tickets to feed the machine but someone from out of town would find the going rough.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kcace1024" <cy4873@...> wrote:
By the way the $5 AA play at Harrahs KC was announced right here on VP free. I knew local APs or out of town APs would burn this down in no time and take the lower denom plays out at the same time.
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: I Just Have to Say It
>
>
> >
> > VPFree has saved the casinos millions of dollars. There's no getting
> > around it
I remember one of the first multi times games at Fiesta and Arizona Charlies. It was 4 play $1 FPDW...You had your campers sit on these machines, holding machines on each side of them for friends. They would put $$ and just hold it. They burned those out in a few weeks.
They were a fun machine to play, kooky graphic, but nice...but once the jungle drums sent out the word they were there...GONE
Wow, that is just huge! 102.97, with 28 variance. No wonder you old timers are so distraught about the current state of vp. They have paved over Paradise.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
If you have one of the computer simulators, just set the paytable like this and give it a try, see how you do:
4000-1000-250-40-40-40-15-5-5
You were asked to either document or RETRACT your previous statement, not redact it. Well, at least it rhymes, huh?
Stay classy, Palladin.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "WP SF" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
(portions redacted at mod request)