vpFREE2 Forums

I got scammed on Ultimate X

#1

Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.

Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.

Decided I had to do something:
1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
2. Posted this.
3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.

NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.

···

Sent from my iPad

#2

Why would you leave your own multipliers on the screen and not play the next
hand?

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
Glenn Chee
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 9:52 AM
To: vpFree
Subject: [vpFREE] I got scammed on Ultimate X

Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.

Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of
bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool
I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X.
He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have
to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to
switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left
a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned
American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I
got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.

Decided I had to do something:
1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
2. Posted this.
3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their
Security.

NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active
multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that
works.
Sent from my iPad

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@...> wrote:

Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.

Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.

Decided I had to do something:
1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
2. Posted this.
3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.

NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
Sent from my iPad

#4

yes, you did the right thing notifying security. New facial recognition systems, can ID any scammer or 86d player within 30 seconds. I was with a scammer friend of mine at the D, and within 30 seconds on entering 2 security guards came over and pointed to the door. They left me alone when I pulled a Judas and said "Im not with him ".

···

-----Original Message----- From: vpplayer88
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 9:53 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: I got scammed on Ultimate X

I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@...> wrote:

Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.

Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.

Decided I had to do something:
1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
2. Posted this.
3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.

NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
Sent from my iPad

#5

<<yes, you did the right thing notifying security. New facial recognition
systems, can ID any scammer or 86d player within 30 seconds. I was with a
scammer friend of mine at the D, and within 30 seconds on entering 2
security guards came over and pointed to the door. They left me alone when I
pulled a Judas and said "Im not with him ".>>

I think you mean you pulled a Peter, Thomas. :slight_smile:

Cogno

#6

What was he trying to accomplish?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:

I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@> wrote:
>
> Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.
>
> Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.
>
> Decided I had to do something:
> 1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
> 2. Posted this.
> 3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.
>
> NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
> Sent from my iPad
>

#7

The scammer was trying to generate multipliers on the ultimate x, making it a +ev play for himself. In my opinion, this is no different than an advantage player playing a high progressive vp or slot machine. Some ploppy has to build it up and you take in the ev because of it.

The original poster was the one scammed because he believed someone lying to him in a casino. For whatever reason, instead of just learning his lesson, he wants to get this other person banned.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@...> wrote:

What was he trying to accomplish?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:
>
> I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@> wrote:
> >
> > Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.
> >
> > Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.
> >
> > Decided I had to do something:
> > 1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
> > 2. Posted this.
> > 3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.
> >
> > NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
>

#8

"This guy didn't do anything wrong" WHAT?! You must have a very strange moral compass to say that pulling this scam is not "wrong".

An AP who finds an abandoned playable Ult X game is a completely different creature from a slimeball who lies to get someone off the machine.

--Dunbar

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:

I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@> wrote:
>
> Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.
>
> Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.
>
> Decided I had to do something:
> 1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
> 2. Posted this.
> 3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.
>
> NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
> Sent from my iPad
>

#9

I don't think so. Both people are exploiting weaknesses in the ploppy, either in terms of knowledge or bankroll or time.

It's an active passive distinction I don't believe in. If you let somebody drown by not throwing them a life vest I think it's morally equivalent to throwing them overboard without a vest in the first place. I believe in consequentialism so only the final outcome matters. In either case ploppy loses money and ap makes money.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dunbar_dra" <h_dunbar@...> wrote:

"This guy didn't do anything wrong" WHAT?! You must have a very strange moral compass to say that pulling this scam is not "wrong".

An AP who finds an abandoned playable Ult X game is a completely different creature from a slimeball who lies to get someone off the machine.

--Dunbar

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:
>
> I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@> wrote:
> >
> > Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.
> >
> > Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.
> >
> > Decided I had to do something:
> > 1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
> > 2. Posted this.
> > 3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.
> >
> > NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
>

#10

If you left multipliers on the machine when you left that is YOUR business. Why didn't you play them off? How exactly did you get scammed? You choose when to play and when to quit. If someone else chooses to play because you didn't want to how is that wrong?

Just because there is a multiplier left on the machine, it is no guarantee that you will win that hand. Better odds yes, but not certain.

Abandoned multiplers are only good for ONE hand.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:

The scammer was trying to generate multipliers on the ultimate x, making it a +ev play for himself. In my opinion, this is no different than an advantage player playing a high progressive vp or slot machine. Some ploppy has to build it up and you take in the ev because of it.

The original poster was the one scammed because he believed someone lying to him in a casino. For whatever reason, instead of just learning his lesson, he wants to get this other person banned.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
>
>
> What was he trying to accomplish?
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:
> >
> > I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.
> > >
> > > Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.
> > >
> > > Decided I had to do something:
> > > 1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
> > > 2. Posted this.
> > > 3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.
> > >
> > > NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> >
>

#11

vpplayer88-

So if you are walking past an available ultimate X machine ($1 denom) and the screen shows a game with 12X on all ten lines for the next hand what do you do?

-keep walking?

- put $50 in and play a hand at 5 coins/line?

or

- Call a slot attendant and have him check the players card log in the hopes of tracking the poor guy down who abandoned so much EV?
Perhaps even cap the machine till you can get this guy back here?

After all if you don't teach this guy (playing $100/pull) about EV, the end result is the same as hustling him out of multipliers right?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <@...> wrote:

I don't think so. Both people are exploiting weaknesses in the ploppy, either in terms of knowledge or bankroll or time.

It's an active passive distinction I don't believe in. If you let somebody drown by not throwing them a life vest I think it's morally equivalent to throwing them overboard without a vest in the first place. I believe in consequentialism so only the final outcome matters. In either case ploppy loses money and ap makes money.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dunbar_dra" <h_dunbar@> wrote:
>
>
>
> "This guy didn't do anything wrong" WHAT?! You must have a very strange moral compass to say that pulling this scam is not "wrong".
>
> An AP who finds an abandoned playable Ult X game is a completely different creature from a slimeball who lies to get someone off the machine.
>
> --Dunbar
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:
> >
> > I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.
> > >
> > > Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.
> > >
> > > Decided I had to do something:
> > > 1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
> > > 2. Posted this.
> > > 3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.
> > >
> > > NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> >
>

#12

If you left multipliers on the machine when you left that is YOUR business.
Why didn't you play them off? How exactly did you get scammed? You choose
when to play and when to quit. If someone else chooses to play because you
didn't want to how is that wrong?

Just because there is a multiplier left on the machine, it is no guarantee
that you will win that hand. Better odds yes, but not certain.

Abandoned multiplers are only good for ONE hand.

---Exactly!! I've heard about the scam numerous times and been approached.
My same question was why would anyone leave big multipliers on the screen
for the next hand for someone else to play?? Unless you just didn't
understand the game at all and got duped. but really?? I know Glenn is a
smart player. Just seemed odd to me.

Scot

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
the7thwarrior
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:08 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] I got scammed on Ultimate X

#13

So, causing a situation ( lying to get a person to do something they normally would not do, generate multipliers and leave them ) is the same as finding a situation ( abandoned multipliers)? So, lifting someone's wallet, dropping it on the ground and then picking it up and keeping it is the same as finding a wallet on the ground? I don't know how you make those 2 equal.

And your man overboard situation is even a further stretch. Throwing the person overboard and causing their death is a criminal offense. Not jumping to save them is not a criminal offense. Huge difference.

Causing a situation and not fixing a situation are way, way different.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:

I don't think so. Both people are exploiting weaknesses in the ploppy, either in terms of knowledge or bankroll or time.

It's an active passive distinction I don't believe in. If you let somebody drown by not throwing them a life vest I think it's morally equivalent to throwing them overboard without a vest in the first place. I believe in consequentialism so only the final outcome matters. In either case ploppy loses money and ap makes money.

#14

I play them. Read the posts again. I'm supporting the scammer.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "maclarenv12" <ahduff@...> wrote:

vpplayer88-

So if you are walking past an available ultimate X machine ($1 denom) and the screen shows a game with 12X on all ten lines for the next hand what do you do?

-keep walking?

- put $50 in and play a hand at 5 coins/line?

or

- Call a slot attendant and have him check the players card log in the hopes of tracking the poor guy down who abandoned so much EV?
Perhaps even cap the machine till you can get this guy back here?

After all if you don't teach this guy (playing $100/pull) about EV, the end result is the same as hustling him out of multipliers right?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I don't think so. Both people are exploiting weaknesses in the ploppy, either in terms of knowledge or bankroll or time.
>
> It's an active passive distinction I don't believe in. If you let somebody drown by not throwing them a life vest I think it's morally equivalent to throwing them overboard without a vest in the first place. I believe in consequentialism so only the final outcome matters. In either case ploppy loses money and ap makes money.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dunbar_dra" <h_dunbar@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > "This guy didn't do anything wrong" WHAT?! You must have a very strange moral compass to say that pulling this scam is not "wrong".
> >
> > An AP who finds an abandoned playable Ult X game is a completely different creature from a slimeball who lies to get someone off the machine.
> >
> > --Dunbar
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.
> > > >
> > > > Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.
> > > >
> > > > Decided I had to do something:
> > > > 1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
> > > > 2. Posted this.
> > > > 3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.
> > > >
> > > > NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
> > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#15

Yes stealing a wallet and not returning a wallet both have the same effects, they are morally the same in my book.

This is morality not criminality. It's a statement about whether something should be illegal, not whether it already is.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "johnnyzee48127" <greeklandjohnny@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:

> I don't think so. Both people are exploiting weaknesses in the ploppy, either in terms of knowledge or bankroll or time.
>
> It's an active passive distinction I don't believe in. If you let somebody drown by not throwing them a life vest I think it's morally equivalent to throwing them overboard without a vest in the first place. I believe in consequentialism so only the final outcome matters. In either case ploppy loses money and ap makes money.
>

So, causing a situation ( lying to get a person to do something they normally would not do, generate multipliers and leave them ) is the same as finding a situation ( abandoned multipliers)? So, lifting someone's wallet, dropping it on the ground and then picking it up and keeping it is the same as finding a wallet on the ground? I don't know how you make those 2 equal.

And your man overboard situation is even a further stretch. Throwing the person overboard and causing their death is a criminal offense. Not jumping to save them is not a criminal offense. Huge difference.

Causing a situation and not fixing a situation are way, way different.

#16

Someone who plays off found multipliers is an Advantage Player. Someone who scams a niaeve VP player is an A-Hole.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:

The scammer was trying to generate multipliers on the ultimate x, making it a +ev play for himself. In my opinion, this is no different than an advantage player playing a high progressive vp or slot machine. Some ploppy has to build it up and you take in the ev because of it.

The original poster was the one scammed because he believed someone lying to him in a casino. For whatever reason, instead of just learning his lesson, he wants to get this other person banned.

#17

You nailed it on the head. Advantage VP does not involve talking someone into doing something which which they would normally not do. You might as well be a panhandler.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid@...> wrote:

Someone who plays off found multipliers is an Advantage Player. Someone who scams a niaeve VP player is an A-Hole.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:
>
> The scammer was trying to generate multipliers on the ultimate x, making it a +ev play for himself. In my opinion, this is no different than an advantage player playing a high progressive vp or slot machine. Some ploppy has to build it up and you take in the ev because of it.
>
> The original poster was the one scammed because he believed someone lying to him in a casino. For whatever reason, instead of just learning his lesson, he wants to get this other person banned.
>

#18

Well in one case you found money (EV) and the other case you talked someone into leaving EV which they may not have done on their own.

More importantly I don't like the lost bus ticket thing when I am having a drink, the sexy girl that insists I teach her how to play blackjack or whatever game or now the VP professor offering lessons. I know some of you feel that is part of the entertainment, I do not. But as long as they find people they will be back.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "maclarenv12" <ahduff@...> wrote:

vpplayer88-

So if you are walking past an available ultimate X machine ($1 denom) and the screen shows a game with 12X on all ten lines for the next hand what do you do?

-keep walking?

- put $50 in and play a hand at 5 coins/line?

or

- Call a slot attendant and have him check the players card log in the hopes of tracking the poor guy down who abandoned so much EV?
Perhaps even cap the machine till you can get this guy back here?

After all if you don't teach this guy (playing $100/pull) about EV, the end result is the same as hustling him out of multipliers right?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I don't think so. Both people are exploiting weaknesses in the ploppy, either in terms of knowledge or bankroll or time.
>
> It's an active passive distinction I don't believe in. If you let somebody drown by not throwing them a life vest I think it's morally equivalent to throwing them overboard without a vest in the first place. I believe in consequentialism so only the final outcome matters. In either case ploppy loses money and ap makes money.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dunbar_dra" <h_dunbar@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > "This guy didn't do anything wrong" WHAT?! You must have a very strange moral compass to say that pulling this scam is not "wrong".
> >
> > An AP who finds an abandoned playable Ult X game is a completely different creature from a slimeball who lies to get someone off the machine.
> >
> > --Dunbar
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't like the idea of calling security because you fell for the oldest trick in the book. This guy didn't do anything wrong. It's not a scam I would pull because I don't have any charisma but I don't have any moral issues with it.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chee <TedChee@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hope there are casino lurkers reading this so they can bounce these guys.
> > > >
> > > > Scene: Palms playing 10-play quarter VP. Guy comes over from other side of bank to show me how to turn on $500 bonus feature on Ultimate X. Like a fool I follow him to other side where there are two empty seats for Ultimate X. He has me play all the games leaving multipliers with the line that you have to switch every few hands in order to turn on multiplier & you have to switch machines. The gist is I didn't believe him but I went with it & left a lot of multipliers active. He seemed to know how to play & mentioned American Casino Guide so I suckered for it. I realized I was scammed when I got on another forum & someone reported a similar scam involving old ladies.
> > > >
> > > > Decided I had to do something:
> > > > 1. Called Palms Security & gave them all the details of when, where & who.
> > > > 2. Posted this.
> > > > 3. Will be actively looking for this at other casinos & alert their Security.
> > > >
> > > > NB Ultimate X is a video poker game where you can "vulture" active multipliers. I'll leave it to the rest of the forum to explain how that works.
> > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#19

I think it depends on what you do with the wallet upon finding it. If you clean out the cash and toss it in the trash, I think it's no different than taking it out of someone's pocket.

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: greeklandjohnny@aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 19:18:48 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: I got scammed on Ultimate X

      --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:

I don't think so. Both people are exploiting weaknesses in the ploppy, either in terms of knowledge or bankroll or time.

It's an active passive distinction I don't believe in. If you let somebody drown by not throwing them a life vest I think it's morally equivalent to throwing them overboard without a vest in the first place. I believe in consequentialism so only the final outcome matters. In either case ploppy loses money and ap makes money.

So, causing a situation ( lying to get a person to do something they normally would not do, generate multipliers and leave them ) is the same as finding a situation ( abandoned multipliers)? So, lifting someone's wallet, dropping it on the ground and then picking it up and keeping it is the same as finding a wallet on the ground? I don't know how you make those 2 equal.

And your man overboard situation is even a further stretch. Throwing the person overboard and causing their death is a criminal offense. Not jumping to save them is not a criminal offense. Huge difference.

Causing a situation and not fixing a situation are way, way different.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#20

I had a scam artist try this on me at the HRH and I played along. After awhile I was down about 50 and told the guy thanks for the help.
I went back to my old machine and I saw him try to convince a woman to play along.
I went to security to get him tossed and he had left the premises by then.
He wore a hat and sunglasses, so I'm guessing he didn't want to be id'd by security.
Security did take a report.
I also had to alert security on Saturday at the HRH when a 25 yo man with a skateboard in his arms constantly circled the casino looking for left tickets.

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: gilrus47@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 20:25:18 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: I got scammed on Ultimate X

      You nailed it on the head. Advantage VP does not involve talking someone into doing something which which they would normally not do. You might as well be a panhandler.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid@...> wrote:

Someone who plays off found multipliers is an Advantage Player. Someone who scams a niaeve VP player is an A-Hole.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:

>

> The scammer was trying to generate multipliers on the ultimate x, making it a +ev play for himself. In my opinion, this is no different than an advantage player playing a high progressive vp or slot machine. Some ploppy has to build it up and you take in the ev because of it.

>

> The original poster was the one scammed because he believed someone lying to him in a casino. For whatever reason, instead of just learning his lesson, he wants to get this other person banned.

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]