vpFREE2 Forums

How to account for free play?

#1

I've seen a few posts from people reporting on their results for the
year, often breaking things down by Won/Loss on VP; Cashback; and
sometimes ascribing a value to comps.

I'm curious if there's a standard that most people follow in
accounting for free play, where you need to run the free play through
the machine once before you can cash it out?

Let's say you've gotten an offer of $100 of free play at a specific
casino:
a) do most people record this as $100 of cashback?
b) or do you keep track of the hands you've played to run the $100
once through the machine and then record the amount on the credit
meter as a "win" in a VP session?
c) or is there some other practice that is typical?

I realize that each person can choose to do anything they wish-- I'm
just curious if there is a "standard" used by most people who utilize
quite a bit of free play.

--Steve

#2

Assuming that I normally play in the place that gives me the free
play, I consider it as its cash value - $100 of free play is $100 that
don't have to come out of my pocket but otherwise would have to.

JBQ

···

On 1/19/06, steve_vp_player <steveww48@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm curious if there's a standard that most people follow in
accounting for free play, where you need to run the free play through
the machine once before you can cash it out?

#3

We don't keep an accounting of our free play. We record our
profit or loss at a particular casino, and whatever we may realize
in any free play increases our profit or reduces our loss.

vpFae

···

On 20 Jan 2006 at 1:56, steve_vp_player wrote:

I'm curious if there's a standard that most people follow in
accounting for free play, where you need to run the free play through
the machine once before you can cash it out?

#4

If I just play the free play through and quit I count what I cash out for.
If I use the free play on something I am going to play anyway, then I use
the free play amount no matter how I actually do.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
steve_vp_player
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] How to account for free play?

I've seen a few posts from people reporting on their results for the
year, often breaking things down by Won/Loss on VP; Cashback; and
sometimes ascribing a value to comps.

I'm curious if there's a standard that most people follow in
accounting for free play, where you need to run the free play through
the machine once before you can cash it out?

Let's say you've gotten an offer of $100 of free play at a specific
casino:
a) do most people record this as $100 of cashback?
b) or do you keep track of the hands you've played to run the $100
once through the machine and then record the amount on the credit
meter as a "win" in a VP session?
c) or is there some other practice that is typical?

I realize that each person can choose to do anything they wish-- I'm
just curious if there is a "standard" used by most people who utilize
quite a bit of free play.

--Steve

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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#5

I treat it as if it were cashback, although I identify it as "free
play" in my records. So $100 in free play would get entered as a $100
credit. Then, at the end of the session during which I use the free
play, I record the win/loss as if I had put $100 of my own cash into
the machine. This way I can separate results of actual VP play from
that which includes cash back and/or free play. I regard comps
as "extra gravy" and don't bother to keep track of them.

Artmo

#6

I always record what I actually earned with my free play and count that. If I turn $100 into $80, I count $80; if I turn the $100 into $500, I count $500. Lainie

steve_vp_player <steveww48@yahoo.com> wrote: I've seen a few posts from people reporting on their results for the
year, often breaking things down by Won/Loss on VP; Cashback; and
sometimes ascribing a value to comps.

I'm curious if there's a standard that most people follow in
accounting for free play, where you need to run the free play through
the machine once before you can cash it out?

Let's say you've gotten an offer of $100 of free play at a specific
casino:
a) do most people record this as $100 of cashback?
b) or do you keep track of the hands you've played to run the $100
once through the machine and then record the amount on the credit
meter as a "win" in a VP session?
c) or is there some other practice that is typical?

I realize that each person can choose to do anything they wish-- I'm
just curious if there is a "standard" used by most people who utilize
quite a bit of free play.

--Steve

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

Of course, accounting practices should be based on who we're reporting to. If we're reporting to ourselves, then complexity that we apply is a matter of choice; if you need the statistics, then you must do the work to generate the statistics.

If one is reporting to the IRS, let's realize that it serves no purpose, other than obfuscation, to have a complicated accounting system. I bring to you an example, from my personal experience.

A coworker at Sandia National Labs, a retired colonel, had invested in 80 acres. Whenever he visited the property he wrote down the day and time of the visit, and the odometer reading on his car. At the end of the year he sent all these stats to the IRS, and itemized his deductions accordingly. Simultaneously I had 30 apartment units. Well, apartments require visits for all sorts of reasons: rent collection, fixing leaky faucets, cleaning furnaces etc. At the time the IRS permitted a 10 cents/mile credit for car usage needed for businesses. The 30 apartment units were an average of 5 miles away, and hence the roundtrip was 10 miles. At 10 cent/mile, this came to exactly $1 per trip for car expense. Of course there would be side trips to pick up repair materials, but in the interest of simplicity, I was willing to handle all travel in the following manner: assume one trip, on average, is made to each apartment unit each week. This allows $30/week in car expense allowance. Times 52, to make it annualized, came to $1,560/year. I submitted all of the above to the IRS each year, and took a charge of $1,560/year accordingly. It was quick and easy, it was what the IRS wanted, and it was what I wanted. I was audited, and everything passed muster, including the car charges. It happened only once...

The lesson is that reporting, though important, can be simplified regarding gambling winning and losing. This helps both the IRS and you! Why complicate the thing? Now, since I've not had the problem of reporting net winnings, I encourage everyone to recommend simplified, yet reasonable, reporting systems that solve the problem! How about that?

Dave

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Randy C
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:33 PM
  Subject: RE: [vpFREE] How to account for free play?

  If I just play the free play through and quit I count what I cash out for.
  If I use the free play on something I am going to play anyway, then I use
  the free play amount no matter how I actually do.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
  steve_vp_player
  Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57 PM
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [vpFREE] How to account for free play?

  I've seen a few posts from people reporting on their results for the
  year, often breaking things down by Won/Loss on VP; Cashback; and
  sometimes ascribing a value to comps.

  I'm curious if there's a standard that most people follow in
  accounting for free play, where you need to run the free play through
  the machine once before you can cash it out?

  Let's say you've gotten an offer of $100 of free play at a specific
  casino:
  a) do most people record this as $100 of cashback?
  b) or do you keep track of the hands you've played to run the $100
  once through the machine and then record the amount on the credit
  meter as a "win" in a VP session?
  c) or is there some other practice that is typical?

  I realize that each person can choose to do anything they wish-- I'm
  just curious if there is a "standard" used by most people who utilize
  quite a bit of free play.

  --Steve

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

    _____

  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  * Visit your group "vpFREE <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE> "
  on the web.
    
  * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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  * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
  <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.

    _____

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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  SPONSORED LINKS Online gambling Outdoor recreation Recreation software
        Gambling

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    a.. Visit your group "vpFREE" on the web.
      
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Everyone defines a 'session' diferently. I define a 'session' as one year.
This is my simplified reporting system.

I keep track of my wins and losses for the entire year on a spreadsheet.
Then, on December 31st, I have my session win or loss amount.

BTW, I've never had a winning 'session.'

<SNIP>

The lesson is that reporting, though important, can be simplified regarding

gambling winning and losing. This helps both the IRS and you! Why
complicate the thing? Now, since I've not had the problem of reporting net
winnings, I encourage everyone to recommend simplified, yet reasonable,
reporting systems that solve the problem! How about that?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

On 1/20/06, David Kitzinger <dkitzinger1@comcast.net> wrote:

#9

that. If I turn $100 into $80, I count $80; if I turn the $100 into
$500, I count $500. Lainie

I do the same.

Don the Dentist

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@y...> wrote:

I always record what I actually earned with my free play and count

#10

I always record what I actually earned with my free play and count
that. If I turn $100 into $80, I count $80; if I turn the $100 into
$500, I count $500. Lainie

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@y...> wrote:

===============================================
In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dds2124" <dds6@c...> wrote:

I do the same.

Don the Dentist

==================================================
And Babe makes three!

#11

<<I define a 'session' as one year.
This is my simplified reporting system.>>

Might work until you get audited - would NEVER pass an audit without a more detailed diary.

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

#12

<<Everyone defines a 'session' diferently. I define a 'session' as one
year.
This is my simplified reporting system.>>

That is the only definition of session that has definitively been disallowed
by the IRS.

Cogno

#13

I record FP in much the same way I record BB or CB. I then treat it as
money in on a machine. I want to record the slot club benefit and track it,
and I don't want to confuse that benefit with play results.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
dds2124
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:06 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: How to account for free play?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@y...> wrote:

I always record what I actually earned with my free play and count

that. If I turn $100 into $80, I count $80; if I turn the $100 into
$500, I count $500. Lainie

I do the same.

Don the Dentist

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#14

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@y...>

wrote:

I always record what I actually earned with my free play and

count

that. If I turn $100 into $80, I count $80; if I turn the $100

into

$500, I count $500. Lainie

I do the same.

Don the Dentist

==================================================
And Babe makes three!

How do you keep track of the play.

···

In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dds2124" <dds6@c...> wrote:

#15

Hi Dick,

I keep track by counting the number of hands that I must play to run
the FP through ONCE. Then I cash out the ticket and put it in my
wallet.

For example, if I am playing single-line dollars, and I am taking
down the FP $100 at a time, I know that I must play 20 hands before
cashing out.

I then take down another $100, count down 20 hands again, and repeat
the process.

After I have played all the FP (on one or more machines) I total the
amount that I have collected on all the tickets, and compare that
with original amount that I received. At that point, if I had been
awarded $300 FP, and I now had $400, my net win would be $400. If
only $200 remained, my net win would $200, etc.

Last month at the GN, I had $350 in FP. I used $175 and my husband,
playing on my card, used $175. We played side-by-side on single line
25c BP for about 45 minutes. We each took down $25.00 FP per
machine. Sometimes we downloaded a 2nd $25.00 of FP into the same
machine, but always cashed out a ticket after playing 20 hands.
When we counted up our tickets after the FP was used up, we each had
tickets totalling $177.50! An amazing coincidence.

My husband was lucky enough to run his FP money into a nice trip
profit (including a royal). The FP gave him the only stake needed
and he went home with a nice win. Moi, OTOH, was a dud. I quickly
lost my FP profit followed by some of my own bankroll. However, as
a family, we came out ahead and had a lovely, fully comped trip
during the CES, when it was impossible to find a room under $500!

-Babe-

···

=======================================
Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@y...> wrote:

I always record what I actually earned with my free play and count
that. If I turn $100 into $80, I count $80; if I turn the $100
into $500, I count $500.

Lainie

"dds2124" <dds6@c...> wrote:
  
I do the same.

Don the Dentist

jackessiebabe@y...> wrote:

And Babe makes three!

"deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@y...> wrote

How do you keep track of the play.