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Horseshoe refused to help me with machine credit theft by another player

I like the Horseshoe in Tunica, and I've long felt that their slot
attendants and floor managers are among the best in Tunica in terms
of trying to make players happy. They're easy with the comps, helpful
with machine problems, fairly quick on hand pays. But yesterday I had
a bad experience with two of the managers, who I'll call Dan and Bob
(not their real names), that I wanted to pass along and see what
ya'll thought.

To make a long story short, I left my machine with about $70 in
credits on it for about 5 minutes without asking a slot attendant to
watch it. During that time someone cashed it out and took the money.
After I returned and began telling floor manager Dan what had
happened, a fellow player spoke up and said he had seen a middle-
aged, heavy set white-haired lady near the machine. While I continued
to talk to Dan and his supervisor Bob, my fellow player walked
through the VP aisles and found that the lady he had seen was still
there, at the back of the area. I asked Bob to come with me to
approach the lady, to which he readily agreed, to his credit. The
lady claimed that she had never been near my machine, that she had
only been on the row where she now was at the other end of the VP
area. My fellow VP player said he was 95% certain it was the same
lady he had seen hovering near my machine.

Here's the crux – I asked Bob and Dan to have the "eye-in-the-sky"
films reviewed for the last 5 minutes, to see who cashed out my
machine and where they went after they did it. They refused to do
this, and further stated that there was nothing illegal in someone
taking the credits from an "abandoned" machine (I had my chair leaned
up against the machine, had an open water bottle next to it and my
usual litter in the coin tray – cigarettes and lighter, strategy
cards, notebook and pen). They said that they did not condone the
practice, and that if they noticed it happening they would have
interfered "just because we don't want that kind of person in our
casino" but that they were not going to get involved in making one
guest give money back to another guest who had abandoned it.

(Note: I also later learned, from personnel at another casino who I
told about the incident, that they could have checked my machine for
the voucher number and then checked the cage to see if the voucher
had been cashed yet - remember this was less than 5 minutes after the
theft. If it had not been cashed they could have voided it. If it had
been cashed they would have additional, better quality film of who
the person was, including probably level facial shots and not just
the view from above.)

Now, the loss of $70 isn't really a big deal. I would most likely
have lost it on that machine in another 30 minutes anyway, and as
things turned out it probably saved me several hundred dollars (I was
chasing a one-machine-progressive and after losing my seat was unable
to get back on, and judging by the meter the dern thing swallowed
another couple thousand before finally giving up the royal). But I
have to say that I had previously taken apparently unfounded comfort
in the existence of the surveillance inside casinos. And I was
especially shocked by Dan and Bob's attitude and their refusal to
help when, if my fellow player was correct in identifying the lady,
the solution was clearly within their power. Now, I don't think they
acted individually or on a whim – it was pretty clear that they were
following long held management policies, as there was no hesitation
or discussion or disagreement in what the two of them told me.
Abandoned credits are fair game and the casino's films are not for
the player's protection, only for the casino's – apparently that is
Horseshoe's policy.

Do you think the Horseshoe was right in what they did? Would most
other casinos act the same way? Would it do any good to contact the
gaming commission? (Bob stated that the commission would refuse to
get involved for losses under $500.) Would the same policy apply if
it had been a pick-pocket?

I'm posting this on several boards because I think my experience may
help others avoid trouble in the future, by relieving you of any mis-
placed faith you may have in the surveillance system, so sorry for
the multiple posts if you read the same boards I do. I usually don't
multi-post like this but this case seemed an exception.

Whether it's right or not your experience is just about what any other
casino would do. Only in rare circumstances have I heard of them doing much
more.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: blaw57 [mailto:bla…@…com]
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 5:49 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Horseshoe refused to help me with machine credit theft by
another player

I like the Horseshoe in Tunica, and I've long felt that their slot
attendants and floor managers are among the best in Tunica in terms
of trying to make players happy. They're easy with the comps, helpful
with machine problems, fairly quick on hand pays. But yesterday I had
a bad experience with two of the managers, who I'll call Dan and Bob
(not their real names), that I wanted to pass along and see what
ya'll thought.

To make a long story short, I left my machine with about $70 in
credits on it for about 5 minutes without asking a slot attendant to
watch it. During that time someone cashed it out and took the money.
After I returned and began telling floor manager Dan what had
happened, a fellow player spoke up and said he had seen a middle-
aged, heavy set white-haired lady near the machine. While I continued
to talk to Dan and his supervisor Bob, my fellow player walked
through the VP aisles and found that the lady he had seen was still
there, at the back of the area. I asked Bob to come with me to
approach the lady, to which he readily agreed, to his credit. The
lady claimed that she had never been near my machine, that she had
only been on the row where she now was at the other end of the VP
area. My fellow VP player said he was 95% certain it was the same
lady he had seen hovering near my machine.

Here's the crux - I asked Bob and Dan to have the "eye-in-the-sky"
films reviewed for the last 5 minutes, to see who cashed out my
machine and where they went after they did it. They refused to do
this, and further stated that there was nothing illegal in someone
taking the credits from an "abandoned" machine (I had my chair leaned
up against the machine, had an open water bottle next to it and my
usual litter in the coin tray - cigarettes and lighter, strategy
cards, notebook and pen). They said that they did not condone the
practice, and that if they noticed it happening they would have
interfered "just because we don't want that kind of person in our
casino" but that they were not going to get involved in making one
guest give money back to another guest who had abandoned it.

(Note: I also later learned, from personnel at another casino who I
told about the incident, that they could have checked my machine for
the voucher number and then checked the cage to see if the voucher
had been cashed yet - remember this was less than 5 minutes after the
theft. If it had not been cashed they could have voided it. If it had
been cashed they would have additional, better quality film of who
the person was, including probably level facial shots and not just
the view from above.)

Now, the loss of $70 isn't really a big deal. I would most likely
have lost it on that machine in another 30 minutes anyway, and as
things turned out it probably saved me several hundred dollars (I was
chasing a one-machine-progressive and after losing my seat was unable
to get back on, and judging by the meter the dern thing swallowed
another couple thousand before finally giving up the royal). But I
have to say that I had previously taken apparently unfounded comfort
in the existence of the surveillance inside casinos. And I was
especially shocked by Dan and Bob's attitude and their refusal to
help when, if my fellow player was correct in identifying the lady,
the solution was clearly within their power. Now, I don't think they
acted individually or on a whim - it was pretty clear that they were
following long held management policies, as there was no hesitation
or discussion or disagreement in what the two of them told me.
Abandoned credits are fair game and the casino's films are not for
the player's protection, only for the casino's - apparently that is
Horseshoe's policy.

Do you think the Horseshoe was right in what they did? Would most
other casinos act the same way? Would it do any good to contact the
gaming commission? (Bob stated that the commission would refuse to
get involved for losses under $500.) Would the same policy apply if
it had been a pick-pocket?

I'm posting this on several boards because I think my experience may
help others avoid trouble in the future, by relieving you of any mis-
placed faith you may have in the surveillance system, so sorry for
the multiple posts if you read the same boards I do. I usually don't
multi-post like this but this case seemed an exception.

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I agree with the other replies that you did something fairly stupid.
That said, that the casino had it within its power to help with the
problem and rectify things, but refused to, is unconscionable.

The casino lets in anybody and everybody. It employs sophisticated
surveillance equipment and an army of guards to protect itself, and
(by extension) its good customers from those people who they wish
weren't in the building in the first place: thieves and cheats. So to
a certain extent, that the customer is exposed to the undesirable
element is the casino's fault, and the casino's problem to solve. Look
at it this way--if you had been stabbed or shot by a casino patron,
wouldn't you consider the casino at least somewhat responsible?

I think you should have called the police, told them that someone (the
other player who identified the woman who stole your credits) had seen
a person stealing your property, and that casino personnel had
identified but refused to apprehend that person. I don't know how far
you would have gotten (company town), but it would have been your best
move.

As an aside, how much more vigorous would the casino would have been
if they thought the woman had ripped THEM off for $70!!!??? They'd
have had her downstairs in a windowless office quicker than you can
say "selective enforcement".

I think that the money amount is irrelevant; you should inform the
casino in no uncertain terms that since they have made it abundantly
clear that they don't give a rat's ass about YOU, nor will they lift a
finger to help you, even when it's well within their power to do so,
you are going to vote with your feet, and not dignify them with your
presence any more.

If they've got any brains at all, you will receive an obseqious
apology, buffet comps for the next five years, and the casino manager
will be forced to shine your shoes with his tongue. Naked. On the
showroom stage as a warm-up act.

by another player

To make a long story short, I left my machine with about $70 in
credits on it for about 5 minutes without asking a slot attendant to
watch it.

One of the absolute best benefits of TITO is that you no longer have to

get anyone to watch your machine and you can take a potty break whenever
you need to. Just hit the cash out button and take the ticket with you.
Come back and insert it again if you like. We hear these stories every
so often and I'm still amazed that we expect the casino to somehow
protect our money in a machine when we abandon it.

Regards,
Scot

···

-----Original Message-----
From: blaw57 [mailto:bla…@…com]
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 5:49 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Horseshoe refused to help me with machine credit theft

This (leaving a TITO voucher in a machine) has happened to me more times
than I care to admit. The last time was a few months ago at Santa Fe
Station. When we arrived, we wanted to eat at the Mexican restaurant. They
were full, so they gave me a pager and said it would be at least 20-30
minutes. I went to the bank of FPDW, put in my voucher (from a few days
earlier), put in my slot card to double-check my starting balance, and then
the damn pager went off. I hadn't even played one hand! Well, I remembered
to retrieve my slot card, but not the voucher. About 5 minutes in the
restaurant, I thought "sh*t, I didn't cash out my voucher!" I went back to
the machine, where there was some low-life playing keno (!) and asked him if
there had been any money on the machine when he had sat down to play. Of
course, he said no. Not much I can do, is there? My experience with this
is that we REALLY have to be careful when we leave a machine (for any
reason) to take the voucher. I've complained at various casinos. No one
has had any sympathy for me. This has been discussed before. I've learned
"tough sh*t" is the best you can expect from a casino. Lesson (hopefully)
learned by now.
-- Steve in LV

This is not related to the theft issue, but the TITO discussion brought it to mind:

I'm still surprised (and a little annoyed) to see people bringing numerous tickets up to the cashier. The cashier then has to total them all up with a calculator or adding machine, then do the payout. Jeez, how long will it take for people to realize they can run them all through a machine and bring ONE ticket to the cashier?

carlos

One of the absolute best benefits of TITO is that you no longer have to

get anyone to watch your machine and you can take a potty break whenever
you need to. Just hit the cash out button and take the ticket with you.
Come back and insert it again if you like. We hear these stories every
so often and I'm still amazed that we expect the casino to somehow
protect our money in a machine when we abandon it.

Regards,
Scot

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

Scot Krause <krauseinvegas@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

blaw57 wrote:

I like the Horseshoe in Tunica ...

Since this is a VP forum, I figure you were probably playing VP instead of regular slots. What were you playing at Horseshoe, what was the pay table, and about where were those machines located? I ask because it seems to me that Horseshoe in Tunica is a veritable VP wasteland, although I'm not sure about some of the paybacks on some of the wild games. Anyway, all I play there now is quarter blackjack at the bar; because it gives no bonus for full-coin, there's no reason to play more than single coin, although I'll play full coin occasionally just for the hell of it, especially if I "feel" lucky for the next hand. Most of my family played tables, so when I wasn't watching them I spent several hours at the bar drinking free coronas for fifty cents each (tip), and lost less than five dollars but still managed to earn a comp for the dinner buffet.

Cheers.

Bill Velek

This is not related to the theft issue, but the TITO discussion

brought it to mind:

I'm still surprised (and a little annoyed) to see people bringing

numerous tickets up to the cashier. The cashier then has to total
them all up with a calculator or adding machine, then do the payout.
Jeez, how long will it take for people to realize they can run them
all through a machine and bring ONE ticket to the cashier?

If they limit their play to machines of the same denomination, yes.
But switching denominations can result in TITOs spit out in the left
over amount which isn't a multiple of that machine's denomination. So
if you collect a handful of these spillover TITO tickets the only way
to resolve it based on your advice would be to go to the lowest
denomination machine to feed them all in. Unfortunately in a busy
casino those are probably all occupied and the cashier line is
probably shorter at this time anyway.

Your comments did raise a good point regarding the original post's $70
theft. It was suggested that the culprit could be nabbed at the
cashier by the ticket ID. Not true if the thief was savvy enough to
launder the ticket through another machine first. Even if the TITO
system was sophisticated enough to flag ticket laundering without play
this could still be defeated, simply play just one hand. There is no
way to differentiate the thief in this scenario from a legitimate vp
player who sat down at a new game, played one hand, didn't like it and
left. The only surefire way to catch the thief is via the eye-in-the-sky.

The original poster could have spared himself a lot of grief by simply
mentioning to the reluctant managers that he would immediately summon
the police unless they cooperate. A crime was commited on their
premises and they are under obligation to further its resolution and
not obstruct. Unless they post a disclaimer to the contrary in plain
sight they have to conform with prevailing casino norms which is to
allow players reasonable bathroom breaks. A bathroom break taken with
card in the machine, credits in the machine, personal property in the
coin tray, and the chair tilted against the machine unambiguously
means that the machine is in use and not "abandoned". The chair tilt
alone is a universally understood symbol that means "in use". Even
first time visitors comprehend there's something up with such a
machine and therefore they ought not to play it. Ideally yes, all
casino patrons would be honest and the casino would have no need for
security, but we all live in the real world. If the casino can't take
the heat it should stay out of the kitchen.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Carlos Lebron <calebr0n@y...> wrote:

carlos

Scot Krause <krauseinvegas@w...> wrote:

>One of the absolute best benefits of TITO is that you no longer have to
get anyone to watch your machine and you can take a potty break whenever
you need to. Just hit the cash out button and take the ticket with you.
Come back and insert it again if you like. We hear these stories every
so often and I'm still amazed that we expect the casino to somehow
protect our money in a machine when we abandon it.

Regards,
Scot

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What were you playing at Horseshoe, what was the pay
table, and about where were those machines located? I ask because

it

seems to me that Horseshoe in Tunica is a veritable VP wasteland,
although I'm not sure about some of the paybacks on some of the

wild

games.

Yes, Horseshoe is a VP wasteland at the stated paytables, but they
have a lot of progressives (thorughout the casinos, not just on the
VP games), and since they are such a wasteland no knowledgeable VP
player will play there. As a result, perhaps, the progressives seem
to get to very high levels more often than at casinos. I was playing
the solo-progressive quarter machine in front of the cage.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:

I think its better to just use some common sence and take the ticket with you to the mens room. There are plenty of "credit thiefs" lurking around Atlantic City, adn the casinos cant toss them out unless they cause a ruckus or start panhandling or something.

   I agree the casino should have helped you out, but its just better to avoid those problem's in the first place.

Ned C.

The Wild Joker

Your comments did raise a good point regarding the original post's $70
theft. It was suggested that the culprit could be nabbed at the
cashier by the ticket ID. Not true if the thief was savvy enough to
launder the ticket through another machine first. Even if the TITO
system was sophisticated enough to flag ticket laundering without play
this could still be defeated, simply play just one hand. There is no
way to differentiate the thief in this scenario from a legitimate vp
player who sat down at a new game, played one hand, didn't like it and
left. The only surefire way to catch the thief is via the eye-in-the-sky.

The original poster could have spared himself a lot of grief by simply
mentioning to the reluctant managers that he would immediately summon
the police unless they cooperate. A crime was commited on their
premises and they are under obligation to further its resolution and
not obstruct. Unless they post a disclaimer to the contrary in plain
sight they have to conform with prevailing casino norms which is to
allow players reasonable bathroom breaks. A bathroom break taken with
card in the machine, credits in the machine, personal property in the
coin tray, and the chair tilted against the machine unambiguously
means that the machine is in use and not "abandoned". The chair tilt
alone is a universally understood symbol that means "in use". Even
first time visitors comprehend there's something up with such a
machine and therefore they ought not to play it. Ideally yes, all
casino patrons would be honest and the casino would have no need for
security, but we all live in the real world. If the casino can't take
the heat it should stay out of the kitchen.

carlos

Scot Krause <krauseinvegas@w...> wrote:

>One of the absolute best benefits of TITO is that you no longer have to
get anyone to watch your machine and you can take a potty break whenever
you need to. Just hit the cash out button and take the ticket with you.
Come back and insert it again if you like. We hear these stories every
so often and I'm still amazed that we expect the casino to somehow
protect our money in a machine when we abandon it.

Regards,
Scot

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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···

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The Wild Joker wrote:

   I think its better to just use some common sence and take the ticket with you to the mens room. There are plenty of "credit thiefs" lurking around Atlantic City, adn the casinos cant toss them out unless they cause a ruckus or start panhandling or something.
   I agree the casino should have helped you out, but its just better to avoid those problem's in the first place.

snip

1. Aside from being easy enough to cash out on a TITO machine, it shows an extreme lack of judgment to not do that or take some other precaution (having the machine locked for instance, or being sure a bartender will watch the machine, etc.).

2. I don't know what the law is in that jurisdiction, but perhaps that was a factor, too. Certainly it would be possible to look at the tapes -- but do they really have the resources to look through their tapes every time someone makes such a request; even if they have the time, it no doubt costs them money to do that, so do they _want_ to bother for small time stuff that was avoidable if the person had taken even a tiny bit of precaution in the first place? On top of that, until the tapes are viewed, are they going to detain a person just on the basis of what another patron says? Everytime they do that, they gamble. How would you feel if you were ready to leave and the casino told you you couldn't go until they had a chance to look at the tapes? How long does it take? If I were innocent, I wouldn't be willing to wait 2 minutes while they looked at the tape; I'd be leaving and then the casino would have the very difficult choice of where to physically restrain me. Now it's one thing when they've already seen the tape and know something went down; it's quite another when they really have no first hand knowledge and they know they could get sued at the drop of a hat. Do they face liability?

3. What could they have done under the law anyway, even if the tapes showed that someone cashed out money that they are going to claim they 'though' was abandoned? And if the accused was from out of state and the amount taken constituted a misdemeanor, what then? Are the police there able to make an arrest? No police officer in Arkansas can make an arrest for a misdemeanor unless the _police_ have actually witnessed the theft themselves, so the most that an officer could do in Arkansas would be to take a police report and turn it over to the prosecutor. If the person is from out of state, I doubt seriously that there would be an extradition. Even if that happened, most jurisdictions entitle a person to a jury trial for this type of offense, and often a jury of 12 and generally they also require unanimous verdicts. If those provisions exist in whatever jurisdiction this occurred, all it would take is one out of 12 people to be persuaded that the poor guy noticed the money in the machine, and people do walk away and forget the money sometimes, and the poor guy just thought he 'found' the money, and he's been through a lot, and we don't want to give him a criminal record, etc., etc., and the game is over. Bottom line: if I were a prosecutor there, I'd tell the victim who lost his money to file a small claims private suit to recover his money and to be more careful in the future. And by the way, as a taxpayer, would you want your prosecutor to spend thousands of dollars of taxpayer money trying to prosecute such a lame case? And yes, it would easily cost that: judge, bailiff, court clerk, court reporter, prosecutor, entire jury pool (there are only 12 who are selected to sit on the jury, but the pool is called -- and paid something -- until it is determined who will serve), plus the cost of the courtroom and incidentals like having the officer(s) there to testify, etc.

Maybe the casino could/should have handled it differently, but the problem was caused in great part by the person who didn't case out. They could have secured their money and still kept their place at the machine.

Bill Velek

···

vp_nbi <nbi@wideopenwest.com> wrote:

I'm posting this on several boards because I think my experience

may

help others avoid trouble in the future, by relieving you of any

mis-

placed faith you may have in the surveillance system, so sorry for
the multiple posts if you read the same boards I do. I usually

don't

multi-post like this but this case seemed an exception.

This is so sad! Someone leaves their money unattended and then
blames the casino for not helping them recover it. To make matters
worse, he tells the world how stupid he is. Face up to what YOU did
and stop trying to blame the casino. I'll bet the staff got a good
laugh from that one.

"but the problem was caused in great part by the person who didn't
case out. They could have secured their money "

I couldn't agree more. I guess I'm from a different place and time,
but if I forgot to cash out, and ran back to a machine and the money
was gone, or someone was playing it, my reaction would be -- well
dipstick you forgot it, you got what you deserved. If I lose a
hundy just walking around, is every casino I wandered through
required to check their tapes to help me find it? Is some slob who
happens upon it a thief? No and No. Grow up and accept
responsibility for your actions. If you make a mistake accept it,
learn from it so you don't repeat it and help others avoid the same
mistake. If this seems overly harsh, answer the following question
honestly to yourself, have you EVER played existing credits on a
machine? The amount does not matter. If you answered yes, then are
you a theif?

There seems to be an awful lot of people getting off on acting the
tough guy part - calling me stupid and giving grow up and get over it
type advice - who have missed the point of my post. Well, that's all
right, that kind of thing is pretty typical on message boards. If it
makes you feel good have at it. I won't waste my time responding.

I never whined about the loss. Certainly I deserved it - I took a
calculated risk and lost. My point all along is that in these
circumstances, where a fellow player/witness helped me find the thief
still in the casino, it was extremely poor business practice for the
Horseshoe to refuse to review their film. There was also the
ancilliary question of the legal status of credits left on a machine.

I think that, for those interested in learning about all the ins and
outs of casino operations and which casinos offer what kind of
customer service, the info that has come out in this series of posts
has been useful. We've seen that some casinos, like the Sams Town in
LV, at least in some cases have gone out of their way to help protect
their players against theft. Should you ever get in this situation,
it is clearly worthwhile to ask for help from the casino, but I guess
you shouldn't be surprised if in many cases you don't get any. I
agree with Dan, it would be extrememly useful to have someone compile
reports of such incidents, and my choice of casino certainly would be
influenced by such info.

I would also like to know more about the exact legal factors
governing such events. For example, if this had been a pickpocket or
purse-snatching under one casino's cameras and I had subsequently
stumbled across the perpetrator in another nearby casino, what could
I do? Could I ask the guards at that casino to hold the person while
evidence was sought from the films at the other casino? Formerly I
might have tried this, but now I would guess that wouldn't work. Or
call the Tunica sheriff's department on a cell phone while trying to
follow the person until they got there? Might work better, but it
seems possibly dangerous.

Anyway, thanks to those who responded thoughtfully and offered useful
information on the subject.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@p...>
wrote:

"but the problem was caused in great part by the person who didn't
case out. They could have secured their money "

I couldn't agree more. I guess I'm from a different place and

time,

but if I forgot to cash out, and ran back to a machine and the

money

was gone, or someone was playing it, my reaction would be -- well
dipstick you forgot it, you got what you deserved. If I lose a
hundy just walking around, is every casino I wandered through
required to check their tapes to help me find it? Is some slob who
happens upon it a thief? No and No. Grow up and accept
responsibility for your actions. If you make a mistake accept it,
learn from it so you don't repeat it and help others avoid the same
mistake. If this seems overly harsh, answer the following question
honestly to yourself, have you EVER played existing credits on a
machine? The amount does not matter. If you answered yes, then

are

···

you a theif?

There seems to be an awful lot of people getting off on acting

the

tough guy part - calling me stupid and giving grow up and get

over it

type advice - who have missed the point of my post. Well, that's

all

right, that kind of thing is pretty typical on message boards. If

it

makes you feel good have at it. I won't waste my time

responding.

I never whined about the loss. Certainly I deserved it - I took a
calculated risk and lost. My point all along is that in these
circumstances, where a fellow player/witness helped me find

the thief

still in the casino, it was extremely poor business practice for

the

Horseshoe to refuse to review their film. There was also the
ancilliary question of the legal status of credits left on a

machine.

  From your description of the events, I don't think any casino
would have handled this differently. You had no substantial
proof that the woman took the money - no one said they saw this,
they only said that she was in the area. The fact that Security
even approached the woman was a major consideration of your
complaint. Once she denied it they would be wrong to pursue
this further since there were no real witnesses and they could be
creating a whole new problem with the woman. They have no
reason to take your word over hers.

As far as the eye-in-the sky is concerned. There may be sections
of the slot floor that are not covered all the time so they might not
have gotten any footage. They also wouldn't want to let anyone
know that they were not covering that section of the floor all the
time. You could have made up the story just to see if that section
was covered by the eye-in-the-sky - security gets lots of stories
from con artists.

As someone who has left slot machines on hundreds of
occasions with hundreds of credits on them, I do sympathize
with your loss. However, if the machine is TITO, take your ticket
unless you have a trustworthy neighbor or a casino employee
agreeing to keep an eye on it for you. A good policy that I use on
video poker is that I always leave a newly dealt hand on the
screen so that the cash out button will not respond if someone
tries to get your ticket or your coins out quickly. I also have one
of those "Machine Temporarily out of Service" signs that I use
in the TITO casinos (like Borgata) where there are no coin
buckets to put on the seat and in the tray.

Sorry about the money, but I think you were expecting too much
from the casino in this situation.

Ned in NYC

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "blaw57" <blaw57@y... wrote:

  From your description of the events, I don't think any

casino

would have handled this differently.

Harrah's reviewed the film in a case I personally witnessed a few
weeks before this incident happened - in that incident I was the
witness who saw the other person hovering, but didn't realize a theft
was happening. Several other posters have described cases where the
casinos went much further out of their way than I was asking.

You had no substantial
proof that the woman took the money - no one said they saw this,
they only said that she was in the area.

I didn't until she denied ever being near the machine. That was all
the other witness said, that he saw he near the machine, and when she
denied that it would have created strong suspicions in any police
officer investigating such a case, if it could be disproved. It would
have been easy to check the truth of her denial on film.

The fact that Security
even approached the woman was a major consideration of your
complaint. Once she denied it they would be wrong to pursue
this further since there were no real witnesses and they could be
creating a whole new problem with the woman.

Actually I made the approach and asked the questions, the supervisor
just came along and listened. And he controlled access to the best
witness, the films from his cameras.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nevadaned" <nevadaned@y...> wrote:

I didn't mean to call you stupid and wasn't trying to play tough
guy. My text was meant as my internal dialog -- I'd call myself
stupid. Also, the other "stuff" is how I try to live my life,
you're free to keep looking for someone to blame. If it were me,
I'd of stopped worrying about it sometime ago and tried to
internalize the lesson. But you keep plugging away; I see you
getting your $70 back some time real soon in the near future.

If your objective is to help the broader world avoid the Shoe, I'm
not so sure that will be effective either.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "blaw57" <blaw57@y...> wrote:

There seems to be an awful lot of people getting off on acting the
tough guy part - calling me stupid

I think the Horseshoe should have tried to help you find out who
stole your credits. It was obvious you were playing the machine by
tilting your chair, and having your personal items in the tray. Plus
you were doing the casino a favor by not tying up a change person to
watch your machine while you were briefly gone. But sadly, this type
of response is all too common.
   Years ago, I was playing 25 cent Double Bonus and could not hit a
quad to save my life. Was down over $300 when I was dealt a pair of
sixes, and played a bit too fast and one did not hold and two more
sixes came up on the first two cards of the redraw. Often a casino
will pay the quad in this spot. ($62.50 less the $3.75 I received
for the trips) So I called over a floorman. He saw the lone 6 held
and realized nobody would hold just that. So he said he would have
to open the machine and check the hand history. He did so and
confirmed I was dealt a pair of 6s. He then said, "Well, it is the
casino policy not to payoff in this situation". So I was not paid.
That is all well and good. I did play too fast and it was my fault.
(and it was the only mistake I had made all night!) But what irked
me was that if this was the casino policy, why did he even go
through the motion to check the hand history to confirm I would have
made the quad if he had no intention of paying me! ARRRRGGGGHHHHH!
Good luck to all. TomSki