I had a report that there are Five Dollar 9/6 JoB there. They are not listed in vpFREE2. Can someone confirm one way or another.
------------------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
UPDATED TAX BOOK
(Download 2015 eBook now)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I believe the machines pay 500 bets on a RF.
---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <queenofcomps@...> wrote :
I had a report that there are Five Dollar 9/6 JoB there. They are not listed in vpFREE2. Can someone confirm one way or another.
------------------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
UPDATED TAX BOOK
(Download 2015 eBook now)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In addition to the shorted Royal the theo sucks and is barely more than the EV now. A far cry from the initial inventory when there was full pay Jacks as well as NSUD with theos over 4%.
SB
---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <harry.porter@...> wrote :
I believe the machines pay 500 bets on a RF.
—In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com mailto:vpF…@…com, <queenofcomps@…> wrote :
I had a report that there are Five Dollar 9/6 JoB there. They are not listed in vpFREE2. Can someone confirm one way or another.
------------------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/ http://queenofcomps.com/
http://jscott.lvablog.com/ http://jscott.lvablog.com/
UPDATED TAX BOOK
(Download 2015 eBook now)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"In addition to the shorted Royal the theo sucks and is barely more than the EV now. A far cry from the initial inventory when there was full pay Jacks as well as NSUD with theos over 4%."
Sorry. Please explain the difference(s) between "theo" and EV. Thanks.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aprvp wrote: "Sorry. Please explain the difference(s) between "theo" and EV. Thanks."
EV is the computer perfect average return.
But real people don't play computer perfect in the casino environment, even Bob Dancer has admitted to making play mistakes.
Theo is the theoretical hold of a machine including the effect of play mistakes, so real theo is always greater than the computer perfect hold. Originally the game manufacturers told the casinos what the theos where, but today sometimes the casinos pull numbers out of thin air, so sometimes "casino theo" is less than the computer perfect hold, even though that's mathematically impossible.
9-6 Jacks computer perfect hold is 0.456% while its theo is probably something like a 2% hold, maybe 1% if players are using smartphones and playing slow.
Harrahs, Caesars, whatever, uses ADT (average daily theoretical) and time on the machine to determine marketing offers, not coin in. Loveman may have even written a paper on the concept for all I know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
NOTI said: "Harrahs, Caesars, whatever, uses ADT (average daily theoretical) and time on the machine to determine marketing offers, not coin in."
Now, I know that I have been here long enough to (perhaps) know better, but I will show my gross ignorance and ask anyway....
What the the difference (if any ???) between ADT and (ordinary) theo.
..... bl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bl wrote: "What the the difference (if any ???) between ADT and (ordinary) theo."
ADT = theo / days-played, so obviously if you put all your play in on one day, you get the best ADT. Conversely if you play a little bit everyday, or get "tripped" or "tracked" in the casino while picking up that "free" teeshirt, like a local or frequent tourist, you have a lousy ADT.
Google https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=average+daily+theoretical+(casino+industry)
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=average+daily+theoretical+(casino+industry)
Google https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=average+daily+theoretical+(casino+industry) Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly wha...
View on www.goog... https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=average+daily+theoretical+(casino+industry)
Preview by Yahoo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you.
I guess the answer was obvious and I just did not see the forest for the trees. Apologies!
..... bl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maybe another chance to show my naïveté (sp?) Or, maybe I am just picking nits?
...
NOTI said: "Harrahs, Caesars, whatever, uses ADT (average daily theoretical) and time on the machine to determine marketing offers, not coin in."
I do not understand how any "comp" cannot, in some manner, shape or form, depend, ultimately, upon "coin-in". Unless one puts some money through the machine, how can one ever be comp'ed at all? And, I would think that, the more money that one puts through a machine, the more comp's one might be eligible for.
I do understand comp's being dependent upon the particular game that one is playing, but one still has to put in something to get comp'ed. A $10,000 coin-in 9/6 JOB will "earn" less comp's than $10,000 through a 7/5 JOB machine. But, then, again, $10,000 coin-in on 9/6 JOB will earn more comp's than $1,000 coin-in on the same 9/6 JOB machine. Or, is there something else that I may not be seeing?
..... bl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
NOTI wrote: "Harrahs, Caesars, whatever, uses ADT (average daily theoretical) and time on the machine to determine marketing offers, not coin in."
I understand the concept of ADT, but the "and time on the machine" ( I presume number of hours on a individual day) and the "not coin in" part, I don't understand.
According to one of the links you provided, it said that the casino thinks it has a better shot at winning your money if the patron plays longer hours on one given day at a lower denom than if he played at much higher denom for a shorter period of time. (He did not seem to address paytables). It does not make sense to me that I could go and play quarters for 10 hours, putting through 10K, and get better marketing offers than playing 40K for two hours at $5 denom.
I appreciate your posts, and would like to understand this further. I came across the "time on machine" concept for the first time last year at a non-Vegas, non-CZR property.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tiki wrote: "It does not make sense to me that I could go and play quarters for 10 hours, putting through 10K, and get better marketing offers than playing 40K for two hours at $5 denom."
Most casino marketing doesn't make business sense, at least to me. And I've never been to business school while Loveman is a graduate of Harvard Business School, go figure.
Just for completeness, I think tiki was referring to this paper on patron analytics from the Venetian:
http://support.sas.com/resources/papers/proceedings11/379-2011.pdf
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bl wrote: "Unless one puts some money through the machine, how can one ever be comp'ed at all?"
There are lots of no play required deals, you just have to ask and look around. Check out whitejeeps latest post for some ideas.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is what I am talking about. Boyd properties go by this..time in keno lounge, time on machine, and etc. Not amount spent. I spend little, but rewards are great.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From:"tikithecat73lakeworth@yahoo.com [vpFREE]" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date:Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:07 AM
Subject:[vpFREE] Re: Horseshoe Cincinnati
NOTI wrote: "Harrahs, Caesars, whatever, uses ADT (average daily theoretical) and time on the machine to determine marketing offers, not coin in."
I understand the concept of ADT, but the "and time on the machine" ( I presume number of hours on a individual day) and the "not coin in" part, I don't understand.
According to one of the links you provided, it said that the casino thinks it has a better shot at winning your money if the patron plays longer hours on one given day at a lower denom than if he played at much higher denom for a shorter period of time. (He did not seem to address paytables). It does not make sense to me that I could go and play quarters for 10 hours, putting through 10K, and get better marketing offers than playing 40K for two hours at $5 denom.
I appreciate your posts, and would like to understand this further. I came across the "time on machine" concept for the first time last year at a non-Vegas, non-CZR property.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Noti, the link you gave led to Google, which provided this about the subject of time played: www.viceloungeonline.com/.../how-much-are-you-worth-to-the-casino
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]