vpFREE2 Forums

Hit Rate Percentages - Complete Narrarative

#1

This has been bugging us: We find very little information written on this issue, if it is an issue.

We know that choosing the best VP paytables at any given casino that has the best paytables is the best way to obtain the highest percentage of return on your bankroll.

Here is the issue. Do casinos have the ability/technology to change chips in the machines that produce different percentage of hit rates even though the paytable remains the same?

Example: A VP machine has chip XX inserted. A player plays 5000 hands of JoB 9/6 and has the following results with correct play: RF- 0 or 0.00%; SF- 1 or 0.00%; Quads- 10 or 0.20%; FH- 58 or 1.20%; Flush- 53 or 1.10%; Str8- 56 or 1.10%; Trips- 387 or 7.70%; 2 pair- 633 or 12.70%; JoB- 1053 or 21.10%; No Win- 2,749 or 55%. Note: these results were taken from a 9/6 JoB game played on-line with perfect play using auto play. The play was compared with VPW and it matched exactly for correct play of basic, intermediate and advanced hands.

The casino decides after calculating win/loss percentages that the machine(s) with chip XX inserted has too high of a hit rate percentage and thus their loss rate is too high. They replace chip XX with chip YY which has a lower hit rate percentage based on a random number generator programmed in the chip just for this purpose. The paytable remains the same, but the non-win rate increases for the same number of hands played correctly.

So, if in fact there is such a as a chip that is programmed with a lower hit rate percentage, how do we know the casinos are not using them to make the up the difference of revenue loss during the economic crunch Vegas is now going thru?

We are curious to know how many serious VP players would answer one of the following choices:

1. Yes, definitely agree with your theory and here is why…
2. Agree somewhat, but need more information.
3. Maybe, but not sure.
4. Definitely not, but can not prove it.
5. Definitely not and here is the reason why…
6. Have no idea and I wish you would not have even mentioned it….now I have something else to worry about!
Thanks to all who take the time to read and respond, Kathy and Chuck

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#2

You might want to take a look at the Nevada gaming regulation which is also similar to the policies in many other states:

http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_access_112008

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#3

This has been bugging us: We find very little information written on this issue, if it is an issue.

We know that choosing the best VP paytables at any given casino that has the best paytables >is the best way to obtain the highest percentage of return on your bankroll.

Here is the issue. Do casinos have the ability/technology to change chips in the machines >that produce different percentage of hit rates even though the paytable remains the same?

Yes and no. See below.

[snip]

So, if in fact there is such a as a chip that is programmed with a lower hit rate percentage, how >do we know the casinos are not using them to make the up the difference of revenue loss >during the economic crunch Vegas is now going thru?

The chips (ROMs) used in the machine are marked and numbered. Changing
them is said to
be detectable and doing so is logged and reported. The regs are clear
that in NV, the only
ROMs that are to be used are ones that are certified as meeting
regulations, which is that the
card deal be random and from a standard card deck. If the ROM meets
regulations, it can't
do anything but the expected return. Creating such ROMs would be very
expensive if you
don't have access to the original code running in them. Reverse
engineering the code
functions and putting your own in it would require a lot of special
hardware and a good
software lab. I know how to do it in theory.

However, there was at least one case of an insider from a VP machine
company, who had
access to the original code and the machines to make the ROMs, working
with a company
that had machines in gas stations and grocery stores. He made chips
that, IIRC, would
not allow draws to royals. It was detected by NV Gaming Commission and
a number of
people went to jail.

It's one thing for a small company to pull off such a scam, where most
of the staff are
insiders, and another for a big organization, like a corporate casino.
The money flow would
be detectable to auditors for one thing - corporations are big on
control of payments.

We are curious to know how many serious VP players would answer one of the following >choices:

1. Yes, definitely agree with your theory and here is why…

[snip]

So, I guess that I answer 1. But I'd say it is unlikely at a big
casino with brand name
machines. Now as for a pit boss having a dealer on staff that is a
mechanic that can
be used to help with the hold ..... well, I think I saw it happening
once a few years ago
at a now-closed strip casino. But using a mechanic doesn't leave
physical evidence
behind.

Edmund

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On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Kathy <kc42223@yahoo.com> wrote:

#4

You may be interested in reading one of my previous messages, 91724. I
discuss how to change the paytable on my Gameking MGMD machine. On a
MGMD machine like the Gameking for instant, all of the games are on one
40 pin chip. There are checksums on the chip that can be used to verify
whether the chip has been changed or not.

Dennis
vp-connoisseur

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#5

chips in the machines that produce different percentage of hit rates
even though the paytable remains the same?

Absolutely. It's been done for a legal fact. Case 1: The American Coin
Scandal.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Kathy <kc42223@...> wrote:

Here is the issue. Do casinos have the ability/technology to change