vpFREE2 Forums

Hit a Royal in CO.

#1

I hit a Royal Friday at Fortune Valley in Central City, CO.
on the $1 DW NSU triple point Friday, $4K payout. (which I couldn't collect due to lack of anything with me that showed a SSN.)
I was dealt 4-to-it and didn't do any of my usual 4-to-it rituals which have never worked anyway (such as "praying and really really meaning it" Bob Dancer)flirting with the sweet old lady playing for 5 cents beside me, cussing the machine like a sailor, or any other usual antics.
I was to tired from playing the Noon 80 + 80 NL Holdem Tourney at the Golden Gates (7.5 Hours) which I finished 6th in and cashed $465 in. I just went to Fortune Valley to pickup my $50 cash mailing and have a Steak at the Cedar Grille with another $50.00 mailout coupon (Excellent crab stuffed Filet btw.)
I had only played 2200 points (triple) when it hit, I had put in my usual 300 and was up 165 when it hit, thus $465 the same amount I had just cashed in the holdem Tourney, very twilight zoney and my first royal since I started playing for dollars. I have played lots of fridays and need to tally things up to make sure I'm ahead, which I believe I am as I keep a pretty good log.

I would upload a picture but I'm apparently to technologically clueless.

#2

Is proof of SSN a requirement to collect $1200+ payout? Is this limited to Colorado?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "befstk" <mkemp@...> wrote:

I hit a Royal Friday at Fortune Valley in Central City, CO.
on the $1 DW NSU triple point Friday, $4K payout. (which I couldn't collect due to lack of anything with me that showed a SSN.)

#3

The SSN requirement for $1,200 payouts is a federal requirement. Payouts of that size are reported to the IRS and included in income on the 1040, offset of course by losses.

···

--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 9:17 PM

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "befstk" <mkemp@...> wrote:

I hit a Royal Friday at Fortune Valley in Central City, CO.
on the $1 DW NSU triple point Friday, $4K payout. (which I couldn't collect due to lack of anything with me that showed a SSN.)

Is proof of SSN a requirement to collect $1200+ payout? Is this limited to Colorado?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

I've never had to show proof of a SSN to collect a W2G payout - just a drivers license with photo. But on further review, I believe that when you sign up for a players club, they ask for an SSN, so it should be on file with the casino.

They do ask for an SSN when you hit, and they're collecting your info. I assume they check the number you give against their records when they leave you to prepare the W2G. And recently, they have been asking to repeat the full SSN when the verifier comes over. Previously, they just requested the last 4 digits.

So what happened to the $4K? Did you eventually collect it?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "befstk" <mkemp@...> wrote:

I hit a Royal Friday at Fortune Valley in Central City, CO.
on the $1 DW NSU triple point Friday, $4K payout. (which I couldn't collect due to lack of anything with me that showed a SSN.)

#5

You should not have to produce an actual Social Security card to get paid, and I'm guessing the typical casino player does not normally carry their SS card with them. You do generally have to produce a valid government photo ID, such as an unexpired drivers liscence, or passport. The casino will ask you for your SSN verbally (or you can write it down for them) because it is needed for the W2-G, and there is another federal form (not the W2-G) to sign where you declare that the SSN you verbally provided to the casino is indeed your actual SS number.

This is the way I've seen it work for taxables in every casino where I've ever hit a $1200+ jackpot. If a casino holds your money until you can produce physical proof of your social security number, it just sounds like a sneaky way to collect interest on your money for a while until you can get your SS card and come back.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, NC Wanderer <larbo929@...> wrote:

The SSN requirement for $1,200 payouts is a federal requirement. Payouts of that size are reported to the IRS and included in income on the 1040, offset of course by losses.

#6

(REPLY)
I live 100 + miles from the casino so I will take my SS card and collect it this Friday (triple point day) as I have more $50 mailouts to cash again. I figured no immediate payout then no tips either (under the no tickky no laundry rule), although I do tip the restroom cleaner guy and the machine cleaner/trash pickup around the machine lady on a regular basis in addition to cocktail girls, ultimate club bartender, buffet staff (even omelet guy) and other wait staff and housekeeping when comped a room.
The Casino Hosts at FV are top notch compared to most of the other Blackhawk/ Central City Casino's I only play tournament poker at.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "guruperf" <guruperf@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "befstk" <mkemp@> wrote:
>
> I hit a Royal Friday at Fortune Valley in Central City, CO.
> on the $1 DW NSU triple point Friday, $4K payout. (which I couldn't collect due to lack of anything with me that showed a SSN.)

I've never had to show proof of a SSN to collect a W2G payout - just a drivers license with photo. But on further review, I believe that when you sign up for a players club, they ask for an SSN, so it should be on file with the casino.

They do ask for an SSN when you hit, and they're collecting your info. I assume they check the number you give against their records when they leave you to prepare the W2G. And recently, they have been asking to repeat the full SSN when the verifier comes over. Previously, they just requested the last 4 digits.

So what happened to the $4K? Did you eventually collect it?

#7

Here's the deal, if you do not produce a government issued document with you TIN (an individuals TIN is there SS number) then the casino must withhold taxes. From the W2-G instructions:

Withholding
Regular gambling withholding (25%) does not apply to winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines. However, if the recipient of reportable gambling winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines does not provide a TIN, you must backup withhold at the rate of 28%. That is, if the winnings are at least $1,200 from bingo or slot machines or $1,500 from keno, 28% backup withholding applies to the amount of the winnings reduced at the option of the payer, by the amount wagered.

I think the refused to pay without the SS number to avoid the paperwork associated with withholding on a payout that otherwise does not require withholding.

···

--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 9:17 PM

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "befstk" <mkemp@...> wrote:

I hit a Royal Friday at Fortune Valley in Central City, CO.
on the $1 DW NSU triple point Friday, $4K payout. (which I couldn't collect due to lack of anything with me that showed a SSN.)

Is proof of SSN a requirement to collect $1200+ payout? Is this limited to Colorado?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Here's the deal, if you do not produce a government issued document
with you TIN (an individuals TIN is there SS number) then the casino
must withhold taxes.

Which government-issued document did you have in mind? The social security
card that says "not valid for ID" on it?

Signing a W9 form is proof of your SSN.

Cogno

#9

For awhile I carried a photocopy of my card since the gov. recommends NOT keeping the original on your person. Nobody pressed me to produce it, so I didn't think about it anymore, until the OP wrote about it again that is...

Eric

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@...> wrote:

> Here's the deal, if you do not produce a government issued document
> with you TIN (an individuals TIN is there SS number) then the casino
> must withhold taxes.

Which government-issued document did you have in mind? The social security
card that says "not valid for ID" on it?

Signing a W9 form is proof of your SSN.

Cogno

#10

I have to disagree with NC Wanderer who interprets the government reportinf rules to require the production of a government document with an individuals social security number on it. You must, of course, provide a social security number and a picture id when you hit a slot jackpot of $1,200.00 or more.

I have received many W-2 G's for jackpots of $1,200.00 or more and have never produced a government document with my social security number on it. I don't even know where my social security card is.

···

________________________________
From: NC Wanderer <larbo929@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:54:49 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.

Here's the deal, if you do not produce a government issued document with you TIN (an individuals TIN is there SS number) then the casino must withhold taxes. From the W2-G instructions:

Withholding
Regular gambling withholding (25%) does not apply to winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines. However, if the recipient of reportable gambling winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines does not provide a TIN, you must backup withhold at the rate of 28%. That is, if the winnings are at least $1,200 from bingo or slot machines or $1,500 from keno, 28% backup withholding applies to the amount of the winnings reduced at the option of the payer, by the amount wagered.

I think the refused to pay without the SS number to avoid the paperwork associated with withholding on a payout that otherwise does not require withholding.
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo. com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 9:17 PM

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "befstk" <mkemp@...> wrote:

I hit a Royal Friday at Fortune Valley in Central City, CO.
on the $1 DW NSU triple point Friday, $4K payout. (which I couldn't collect due to lack of anything with me that showed a SSN.)

Is proof of SSN a requirement to collect $1200+ payout? Is this limited to Colorado?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

Wrong. A casino does not have to withhold income tax, just because a
customer cannot produce a government issued document with their TIN.

A customer can "provide a TIN" in ways other than producing a "government
issued document with your TIN." Writing the number on the attendant's note
pad, whispering the number in the attendant's ear, or completing a W-9 form
are all valid ways of "providing a TIN" to the casino.

Curtis

···

On 4/29/09, NC Wanderer <larbo929@yahoo.com> wrote:

Here's the deal, if you do not produce a government issued document with
you TIN (an individuals TIN is there SS number) then the casino must
withhold taxes. From the W2-G instructions:

Withholding
Regular gambling withholding (25%) does not apply to winnings from bingo,
keno, or slot machines. However, if the recipient of reportable gambling
winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines does not provide a TIN, you must
backup withhold at the rate of 28%. That is, if the winnings are at least
$1,200 from bingo or slot machines or $1,500 from keno, 28% backup
withholding applies to the amount of the winnings reduced at the option of
the payer, by the amount wagered.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#12

Wrong. If you cannot produce your SS card, a voter registration with your SS number or similar govenment issue document the casino is required to withhold, see Instructions for Forms W-2G and 5754, Certain Gambling Winnings & Statement by Person(s) Receiving Gambling Winnings . Many Players Club now get proof of SS# when you register or hit your first taxable and will accept picture ID after that.

But don't worry, if the casino screws up, they are liable for penalties, not the player.

···

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 3:28 PM

Here's the deal, if you do not produce a government issued document
with you TIN (an individuals TIN is there SS number) then the casino
must withhold taxes.

Which government-issued document did you have in mind? The social security
card that says "not valid for ID" on it?

Signing a W9 form is proof of your SSN.

Cogno

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#13

Correction, the requirement is for two forms of identification which can be a driver’s license, social security card, or voter registration as explained below:

Box 9
This is required information. Enter the TIN of the person
receiving the winnings. For an individual this will be the social
security number (SSN) or individual taxpayer identification
number (ITIN). If the winner fails to give you a TIN, backup
withholding applies. See Withholding on this page.

Boxes 11 and 12
As verification of the name, address, and TIN of the person
receiving the winnings, enter the identification numbers from
two forms of identification. The identification may be from a
driver’s license, social security card, or voter registration. Enter
the number and the state or jurisdiction. In some instances, the
number may be the same number as in box 9.

···

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, NC Wanderer <larbo929@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: NC Wanderer <larbo929@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 9:54 AM

Here's the deal, if you do not produce a government issued document with you TIN (an individuals TIN is there SS number) then the casino must withhold taxes. From the W2-G instructions:

Withholding
Regular gambling withholding (25%) does not apply to winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines. However, if the recipient of reportable gambling winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines does not provide a TIN, you must backup withhold at the rate of 28%. That is, if the winnings are at least $1,200 from bingo or slot machines or $1,500 from keno, 28% backup withholding applies to the amount of the winnings reduced at the option of the payer, by the amount wagered.

I think the refused to pay without the SS number to avoid the paperwork associated with withholding on a payout that otherwise does not require withholding.
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo. com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 9:17 PM

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "befstk" <mkemp@...> wrote:

I hit a Royal Friday at Fortune Valley in Central City, CO.
on the $1 DW NSU triple point Friday, $4K payout. (which I couldn't collect due to lack of anything with me that showed a SSN.)

Is proof of SSN a requirement to collect $1200+ payout? Is this limited to Colorado?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

Correction, the requirement is for two forms of identification which can be a driver’s license, social security card, or voter registration as explained below:
Â
Box 9 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
This is required information. Enter the TIN of the person
receiving the winnings. For an individual this will be the social  Â
security number (SSN) or individual taxpayer identification        Â
number (ITIN). If the winner fails to give you a TIN, backup          Â
withholding applies. See Withholding on this page. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
Â
Boxes 11 and 12 Â Â Â Â
As verification of the name, address, and TIN of the person      Â
receiving the winnings, enter the identification numbers from    Â
two forms of identification. The identification may be from a      Â
driver’s license, social security card, or voter registration. Enter           Â
the number and the state or jurisdiction. In some instances, the            Â
number may be the same number as in box 9. Â Â Â Â

From: NC Wanderer <larbo929@...>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 9:54 AM

Here's the deal, if you do not produce a government issued document with you TIN (an individuals TIN is there SS number) then the casino must withhold taxes. From the W2-G instructions:
Â
Withholding   Â
Regular gambling withholding (25%) does not apply to winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines. However, if the recipient of  reportable gambling winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines does not provide a TIN, you must backup withhold at the rate of 28%. That is, if the winnings are at least $1,200 from bingo or slot machines or $1,500 from keno, 28% backup withholding applies to the amount of the winnings reduced at the option of the payer, by the amount wagered.           Â

I think the refused to pay without the SS number to avoid the paperwork associated with withholding on a payout that otherwise does not require withholding.

From: Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo. com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 9:17 PM

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "befstk" <mkemp@> wrote:
>
> I hit a Royal Friday at Fortune Valley in Central City, CO.
> on the $1 DW NSU triple point Friday, $4K payout. (which I couldn't collect due to lack of anything with me that showed a SSN.)

Is proof of SSN a requirement to collect $1200+ payout? Is this limited to Colorado?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, NC Wanderer <larbo929@...> wrote:

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, NC Wanderer <larbo929@...> wrote:
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Bonnie Williams <tonkabw@yahoo. com> wrote:

#15

Sorry,for some reason my response didn't post correctly. Living here in San Diego,I carry my passport with me,even though I don't go to Mexico often. I checked my SS card and it clearly states: " Do not carry this card with you ". I suppose I can bring a photocopy with me again, although I do not like having My SS# in my wallet. I'll stop short of a tatoo.

Eric

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, NC Wanderer <larbo929@...> wrote:

Correction, the requirement is for two forms of identification which can be a driver’s license, social security card, or voter registration as explained below:

#16

Well, most of us on this list have hit many taxable jackpots all over the
country and never been required to produce an ID with a SSN on it. So either
you misunderstand the instructions for form W-2G or all of the major casino
companies in the US misunderstand them. Which do you think is more likely?

Cogno

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf
Of NC Wanderer
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:17 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.

Wrong. If you cannot produce your SS card, a voter registration with
your SS number or similar govenment issue document the casino is
required to withhold, see Instructions for Forms W-2G and 5754, Certain
Gambling Winnings & Statement by Person(s) Receiving Gambling
Winnings . Many Players Club now get proof of SS# when you register or
hit your first taxable and will accept picture ID after that.

But don't worry, if the casino screws up, they are liable for
penalties, not the player.

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 3:28 PM

> Here's the deal, if you do not produce a government issued document
> with you TIN (an individuals TIN is there SS number) then the casino
> must withhold taxes.

Which government-issued document did you have in mind? The social
security
card that says "not valid for ID" on it?

Signing a W9 form is proof of your SSN.

Cogno

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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#17

I like the tatoo idea!

···

--- On Thu, 4/30/09, rosemontwestwood <rosemontwestwood@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: rosemontwestwood <rosemontwestwood@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Hit a Royal in CO.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 10:45 AM

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, NC Wanderer <larbo929@.. .> wrote:

Correction, the requirement is for two forms of identification which can be a driver’s license, social security card, or voter registration as explained below:

Sorry,for some reason my response didn't post correctly. Living here in San Diego,I carry my passport with me,even though I don't go to Mexico often. I checked my SS card and it clearly states: " Do not carry this card with you ". I suppose I can bring a photocopy with me again, although I do not like having My SS# in my wallet. I'll stop short of a tatoo.

Eric

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#18

<<If the winner fails to give you a TIN, backup
withholding applies.>>

"Give" means to tell them what it is, not to produce a document with it on it.

<<most of us on this list have hit many taxable jackpots all over the
country and never been required to produce an ID with a SSN on it. >>

This is correct. The most you might have to do beyond telling them your # is to sign a W9 form which declares this is your SS#. I have heard of a couple small Indian casinos that required proof, mainly because the employees had not been briefed sufficiently on this subject.

···

________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/

#19

Re Boxes 11 and 12, verification of the TIN can be done by federal form W-9,
Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw9.pdf

Nowhere on the W-9 form does it say anything about having to provide a
document containing a TIN. The signature on the form is certification that
the TIN is accurate. No document is necessary.

I just looked at all my W-G's for 2008. On all of them, but one, box 12
either had my TIN or the letters "SS" entered. In the other case, it was
left blank. It appears to me that all of the casinos accepted the signed
W-9 as verification of my TIN - regardless of what is written in the W-2G
instructions.

Curtis

···

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:49 AM, NC Wanderer <larbo929@yahoo.com> wrote:

Correction, the requirement is for two forms of identification which can
be a driver’s license, social security card, or voter registration as
explained below:

Box 9
This is required information. Enter the TIN of the person
receiving the winnings. For an individual this will be the social
security number (SSN) or individual taxpayer identification
number (ITIN). If the winner fails to give you a TIN, backup
withholding applies. See Withholding on this page.

Boxes 11 and 12
As verification of the name, address, and TIN of the person
receiving the winnings, enter the identification numbers from
two forms of identification. The identification may be from a
driver’s license, social security card, or voter registration. Enter

the number and the state or jurisdiction. In some instances, the

number may be the same number as in box 9.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]