I went to the Hilton on 1 day in my week-long November trip. I played
AA and PKM for about 12+ hours. Lost about $600. I figure at 1000
HPH, I put through about $15,000 - $17,500 in one day. I seem to be
their best friend now. I get $200/month (bounce back?) and 3 day
offers, and all the tourny offers. I kind of like the looks of the
Italian tourney offer. I wonder if I can match dates with a Hilton
offer and the Stardust VP tourney offer.
Lurking in Kansas,
dipy911
I went to the Hilton on 1 day in my week-long November trip. I
played
AA and PKM for about 12+ hours. Lost about $600. I figure at 1000
HPH, I put through about $15,000 - $17,500 in one day. I seem to
be
their best friend now. I get $200/month (bounce back?) and 3 day
offers, and all the tourny offers. I kind of like the looks of the
Italian tourney offer. I wonder if I can match dates with a Hilton
offer and the Stardust VP tourney offer.Lurking in Kansas,
dipy911
thanks to all for the advice, I'll probably play on one card for the
majority. Thanks Six
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dipy911" <dipy911@y...> wrote:
I find these discussions of coin-in and corresponding comp offers
particularly helpful and would like to add the following observation,
and hopefully will generate some responses...further enlightenment?
In all my conversations with casino hosts and vip reps I have never
heard them use the concept of coin-in, they always speak in terms of
length of play and average bet. Now the two are closely correlated,
but not exactly the same, clearly fast players are penalized under
the latter play tracking technique. The other, often missed criteria
here, is whether you actually win or lose during a trip seems to have
a major impact on subsequent offers. I believe this would explain the
disparate offers from similar coin-in. Clearly coin-in is the
rational way to comp players...win/loss will wash-out in the long run
and casinos should reward us based on amount of play.
Discussing win/loss in conjunction with coin-in or length of play and
ave. bet will help nail down comp policies. Of course we may be
trying to measure a moving target...
>
> I went to the Hilton on 1 day in my week-long November trip. I
played
> AA and PKM for about 12+ hours. Lost about $600. I figure at
1000
> HPH, I put through about $15,000 - $17,500 in one day. I seem to
be
> their best friend now. I get $200/month (bounce back?) and 3 day
> offers, and all the tourny offers. I kind of like the looks of
the
> Italian tourney offer. I wonder if I can match dates with a
Hilton
> offer and the Stardust VP tourney offer.
>
> Lurking in Kansas,
> dipy911thanks to all for the advice, I'll probably play on one card for
the
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "six_packs_2" <six_packs_2@y...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dipy911" <dipy911@y...> wrote:
majority. Thanks Six
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jaydavidson118"
<jaydavidson118@y...> wrote:
.............. In all my conversations with casino hosts and vip
reps I have never heard them use the concept of coin-in, they
always speak in terms of length of play and average bet.........
============================
Hi Jay,
I have had the opposite experiences. Every host to whom I've
addressed questions regarding necessary play for comps, has phrased
the requirements in terms if coin-in, not hours played. Of course
average bet size must also be considered in calculating coin-in.
However, one could play $1.00, $2.00 or even $5.00 denom. vp so very
slowly that the actual coin-in at risk (to calc the theo loss) would
be much lower then one playing a lower denom at normally fast speed.
Therefore, it would make sense (to me at least) that coin-in should
be the most important aspect of play, from the casino's point of
view.
I don't recall a host ever refusing to enlighten me as to how much
coin-in (at VP) was required for a room comp, a meal comp or full
RFB.
Conversely, the only time that I've heard a host mention length of
time played, combined with average bet size, was in relation to
comps granted for TABLE game play. My husband and my son are
basically BJ players, and this is how their comps are calculated.
================================
<snip>
......... clearly fast players are penalized under the latter play
tracking technique.
Fast players are not penalized if the criteria is coin-
in rather than hours played. They simply fulfill their "obligation"
more quickly.
===============================
The other, often missed criteria here, is whether you actually win
or lose during a trip seems to have a major impact on subsequent
offers. I believe this would explain the disparate offers from
similar coin-in.
Again, I have not found that to be the case. I have
been comped in varying degrees at many casinos. I have also won and
lost both small and much larger amounts. This has rarely, if ever,
to my knowledge, affected any future offer that I received from the
host casino.
There have only been 2 instances that I can recall, where
winning/losing were even remotely connected to comp levels. The
first occured while playing at the Palms, where, after hitting the
$1.00 deuces twice, I was refused a lunch comp by a very rude host
who told me "that I had won enough to buy my own lunch"! The other
instance was many years ago, while staying at the Four Queens. I
hadn't had a winning session in 4 days, and had gone completely in
the tank. A very nice female host, with whom I was discussing this
tale of woe, volunteered some additional meal comps as a "sympathy
gesture".
Other than those 2 instances, I have always received the same kind
of offers, based on my past play, whether I won or lost.
Of course, that is only my experience. Some folks may have different
tales to tell.
In any event, I would also be interested in hearing the experiences
of others, in this regard.
Babe
jaydavidson118 wrote:
The other, often missed criteria
here, is whether you actually win or lose during a trip seems to have
a major impact on subsequent offers. I believe this would explain the
disparate offers from similar coin-in.
I believe casinos have different policies on this. I have a 18.5k net win (two trips) from the LVH for last year and their offers to me have never changed. In fairness I have to say that I do have a very long history with them and they probably want a chance to get their money back. That said, I also know some casinos that if it is your first or second stay with them and you have a big win, there is a good chance they won't offer you anything to get you back.
Bob
I stopped by and played one day at LVH last November.
Played only $1 9/6 job 3 play. Earned exactly 250 points,
$7500 coin-in. I have not gone back.
I receive every month 3 free rooms plus $75 bonus cash.
Also tourneys from time to time.
Dick
Looks like I'm getting the same offer as rcwkent in terms of %
I play $20,000 a day and gt monthly 3 nights, food and $200 cash
coupon - that cash is the same 1% that rcwkent is getting for his/her
play. Interesting to see that more play doesn't get a better offer.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rcwkent" <rcwkent@y...> wrote:
I stopped by and played one day at LVH last November.
Played only $1 9/6 job 3 play. Earned exactly 250 points,
$7500 coin-in. I have not gone back.I receive every month 3 free rooms plus $75 bonus cash.
Also tourneys from time to time.Dick
Oh - almost forgot - the extra play does generate unusual offers in
addition to the normal monthly things. Things like rafting down the
grand canyon, driving a Nascar/Indy car around the track, flying
actual fighter planes - some really neat things. But, I usually can't
attend because of work.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bedioyscans2000"
<bedioyscans2000@y...> wrote:
Looks like I'm getting the same offer as rcwkent in terms of %
I play $20,000 a day and gt monthly 3 nights, food and $200 cash
coupon - that cash is the same 1% that rcwkent is getting for
his/her
play. Interesting to see that more play doesn't get a better offer.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rcwkent" <rcwkent@y...> wrote:
>
>
> I stopped by and played one day at LVH last November.
> Played only $1 9/6 job 3 play. Earned exactly 250 points,
> $7500 coin-in. I have not gone back.
>
> I receive every month 3 free rooms plus $75 bonus cash.
> Also tourneys from time to time.
>
>
>
> Dick
I will be staying at the Hilton in June. When we were in Las Vegas in February, we stayed at the Mirage (had a good deal for some unknown reason) but we went to the Hilton a few times and played a fair amount of $.25 VP. One of the reasons we went there is that we enjoy PKM and they are one of the few places that still has it. When I called the Hilton for a room price for June they gave me what they called the casino rate of $55 per night. I think the regular rate that was shown on their web site for the same time was about twice that amount. According to the vpFree database, the Hilton will offer a free room for $7,500 coin-in per day. My question is that if I go in June and run up the $7,500 per day should I be able to get them to change me from casino rate to a free room? If so, to do so, will I have to talk with a host or will I be able to talk with the Players Club about the rate? Thanks for the help.
Bob
I think you would be best off talking to a Casino host, they will most likely comp the room based on your play, maybe even some food comps. I don't believe that the Players club staff would have the authority to comp a room.
Regards
A.P.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bush
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Hilton offers
I will be staying at the Hilton in June. When we were in Las Vegas in February, we stayed at the Mirage (had a good deal for some unknown reason) but we went to the Hilton a few times and played a fair amount of $.25 VP. One of the reasons we went there is that we enjoy PKM and they are one of the few places that still has it. When I called the Hilton for a room price for June they gave me what they called the casino rate of $55 per night. I think the regular rate that was shown on their web site for the same time was about twice that amount. According to the vpFree database, the Hilton will offer a free room for $7,500 coin-in per day. My question is that if I go in June and run up the $7,500 per day should I be able to get them to change me from casino rate to a free room? If so, to do so, will I have to talk with a host or will I be able to talk with the Players Club about the rate? Thanks for the help.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I hope you are dealing with a Casino Host at the LVH. Your higher level of play will get you more discretionary comps
from your host, than someone getting the smaller amounts of mailed money. You would probably qualify for one of their
levels that gives you LRFB up front. I am under the impression from speaking to people there plus my own experience,
that your host has the ability to give you comps that are about equal to your earned comp dollars.
Regards
A.P.
----- Original Message -----
From: bedioyscans2000
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 3:45 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Hilton offers
Looks like I'm getting the same offer as rcwkent in terms of %
I play $20,000 a day and gt monthly 3 nights, food and $200 cash
coupon - that cash is the same 1% that rcwkent is getting for his/her
play. Interesting to see that more play doesn't get a better offer.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jaydavidson118 wrote
In all my conversations with casino hosts and vip reps I have never
heard them use the concept of coin-in, they always speak in terms of
length of play and average bet.
I've had a surprising number of casino hosts who relate play in
time/avg bet terms. However, in almost all cases it's very apparent
that coin-in is the driving factor in ratings at these casinos.
I think the time/avg. bet discussions are legacy measurements which
carry-over from the days before systems provided precise measurements
(or, are an extension of table rating).
Truth is, my former host at LVH (who retired after 30+ years with Park
Place and predecessor entities ... started at Flamingo and I think
truly knew where Bugsy buried the bodies) related my play in these terms.
- Harry
Albert Pearson wrote:
I think you would be best off talking to a Casino host, they will most
likely comp the room based on your play, maybe even some food comps. I
don't believe that the Players club staff would have the authority to
comp a room.
Right on the money, A.P. This is exactly what I did my first visit.
And trust that the host you approach will be very anxious to help.
They're among the best, even when approached by more modest "rollers".
In my case, I messed up a bit. As I've advised in the past, I learned
you always want to come in "cold" on a requested casino rate. DO NOT
take advantage of one of the hotel marketing offers (these are
typically structured as "3 nights + $50 food + $25 coin, for $xxx",
for something similar).
Because these are handled on the hotel end of the house and not the
casino, converted it over to a comp required the host I approached to
jump through hoops (20 min.!) God bless the guy.
Call player development and book with them at a casino rate (to be
reviewed upon play for a comp). And, if you're a $12K-15K+ a day
player, don't hesitate to approach a host after your very first days
play to take care of this. They'll note the play level and converting
the entire stay on the spot will be a no-brainer.
-----
On the note of food comps. Keep in mind that when coming in under a
casino rate you'll earn food comp credits at the kiosk. And, if
things are as I remember reported, because you aren't coming in under
a room comp to begin with, your accrual rate will be considerably more
generous than guests coming in under a comp offer.
It doesn't hurt to ask about getting your food and beverage charges
comped when you approach the host for the room comp (assuming, of
course, that your charged F/B to the room rather than draw on the
kiosk). However, I'm pretty sure that you'll be required to exhaust
the kiosk first (that's what I recall being reported, though it was
over a year ago and things may have changed).
As Jean Scott advises, "it never hurts to ask". (or words to that
effect 
- Harry