vpFREE2 Forums

help needed--Wheel Poker at Silver Legacy

In a message dated 6/2/08 8:25:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
wxmen@sonic.net writes:

···

Wheel Poker just arrived at SL last week and I need to know the best
pay tables (for DDB especially.) I'm booked to stay there in 2 weeks
and don't want to if they have lousy paytables. Can anyone stop in
and help me with this? I'm sorry but I don't know where they are located.

George in SF

****
There was a discussion awhile back on the main board. Bob Dancer chirped in
too revealing that no matter what game the Bonus Wheel has the same frequency
of payoffs. The average was like Bonus, where 423 coins/5 coin bet is the
break even point.

So there are strategy changes to the basic paytables to optimize the ER. It
was pointed out that for wildcard games the bonus feature hurts the overall
payoff, but playing a Jacks or Better style game you can fine tune the stragegy
to help the overall ER.

Down in Laughlin Wheel Poker was only offered in crummy 97-98% versions for
the basic paytables. Good luck in finding a playable version.

BS <BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.<BR> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&
NCID=aolfod00030000000002)</HTML>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There was a discussion awhile back on the main board. Bob Dancer

chirped in too revealing that no matter what game the Bonus Wheel has
the same frequency of payoffs. The average was like Bonus, where 423
coins/5 coin bet is the break even point.

So there are strategy changes to the basic paytables to optimize the

ER. It was pointed out that for wildcard games the bonus feature hurts
the overall payoff, but playing a Jacks or Better style game you can
fine tune the stragegy to help the overall ER.

1. I think people need to understand the conflict of interest between
Dancer and IGT. Dancer is very conflicted in that he gets financially
compensated to write these vp stories in magazines, etc. The saving
grace is IGT is rarely wrong with their vp math so the stats IGT gives
to Dancer so Dancer can share with us is reliable. And, yes these
articles are also conflicted as well but you knew that (think
informacials).

2. I think IGT's current trend of getting people to pay a 6th coin has
worked in altering people's behavior in vp. I would be very curious to
see the math involved in this game -- my concern is paying a fixed cost
on EVERY spin in order to get a bonus prize on the come. Clearly, the
game has a higher bet amount (due to the 6th coin) and higher variance
to get that de minimus higher return. Maybe, I shouldn't say anything
since I might be working with IGT soon.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, GRAYTLEEGRAY@... wrote:

The June 2008 issue of Strictly Slots magazine has a two page Dancer article re Wheel Poker strategy adjustments.&nbsp; One quote:&nbsp; " This puts Bonus Poker Wheel Poker in roughly the same volatility range as regular Triple Double Bonus Poker.&nbsp; Adding the wheel to already high volatility games like Double Double Bonus makes the volatility astronomical."

···

--- On Fri, 6/6/08, fordscks &lt;jason_c_vp@yahoo.com&gt; wrote:

From: fordscks &lt;jason_c_vp@yahoo.com&gt;
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: help needed--Wheel Poker at Silver Legacy
To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 6:18 PM

--- In vpFREE_Reno@ yahoogroups. com, GRAYTLEEGRAY@ ... wrote:
&gt; There was a discussion awhile back on the main board. Bob Dancer
chirped in too revealing that no matter what game the Bonus Wheel has
the same frequency of payoffs. The average was like Bonus, where 423
coins/5 coin bet is the break even point.

&gt; So there are strategy changes to the basic paytables to optimize the
ER. It was pointed out that for wildcard games the bonus feature hurts
the overall payoff, but playing a Jacks or Better style game you can
fine tune the stragegy to help the overall ER.

1. I think people need to understand the conflict of interest between
Dancer and IGT. Dancer is very conflicted in that he gets financially
compensated to write these vp stories in magazines, etc. The saving
grace is IGT is rarely wrong with their vp math so the stats IGT gives
to Dancer so Dancer can share with us is reliable. And, yes these
articles are also conflicted as well but you knew that (think
informacials) .

2. I think IGT's current trend of getting people to pay a 6th coin has
worked in altering people's behavior in vp. I would be very curious to
see the math involved in this game -- my concern is paying a fixed cost
on EVERY spin in order to get a bonus prize on the come. Clearly, the
game has a higher bet amount (due to the 6th coin) and higher variance
to get that de minimus higher return. Maybe, I shouldn't say anything
since I might be working with IGT soon.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Volatility is what can make a game fun and exciting. For those who
are not trying to make a living playing VP it is a reason to gamble a
few times per year. If casinos offered only low volatility games, I
probably wouldn't even gamble. Consider the difference between JOB
and DDB. Getting dealt 2 aces or even 1 ace) in JOB can at best
result in a 125 coin win (big whoop!), while in DDB there is the
potential for 2000. Wheel Poker gives that added excitement where a
dealt ace or 2 can result in a 4000 coin win and any 4oak can result
in a big win. Too bad Wheel Poker doesn't offer JOB...I just might be
able to find JOB interesting enough to play then.

George

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, James Giroud
<chiefponytailguy@...> wrote:

The June 2008 issue of Strictly Slots magazine has a two page Dancer

article re Wheel Poker strategy adjustments.&nbsp; One quote:&nbsp; "
This puts Bonus Poker Wheel Poker in roughly the same volatility range
as regular Triple Double Bonus Poker.&nbsp; Adding the wheel to
already high volatility games like Double Double Bonus makes the
volatility astronomical."

From: fordscks jason_c_vp@...
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: help needed--Wheel Poker at Silver Legacy
To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 6:18 PM

--- In vpFREE_Reno@ yahoogroups. com, GRAYTLEEGRAY@ ... wrote:
&gt; There was a discussion awhile back on the main board. Bob Dancer
chirped in too revealing that no matter what game the Bonus Wheel has
the same frequency of payoffs. The average was like Bonus, where 423
coins/5 coin bet is the break even point.

&gt; So there are strategy changes to the basic paytables to

optimize the

···

--- On Fri, 6/6/08, fordscks jason_c_vp@... wrote:
ER. It was pointed out that for wildcard games the bonus feature hurts
the overall payoff, but playing a Jacks or Better style game you can
fine tune the stragegy to help the overall ER.

1. I think people need to understand the conflict of interest between
Dancer and IGT. Dancer is very conflicted in that he gets financially
compensated to write these vp stories in magazines, etc. The saving
grace is IGT is rarely wrong with their vp math so the stats IGT gives
to Dancer so Dancer can share with us is reliable. And, yes these
articles are also conflicted as well but you knew that (think
informacials) .

2. I think IGT's current trend of getting people to pay a 6th coin has
worked in altering people's behavior in vp. I would be very curious to
see the math involved in this game -- my concern is paying a fixed cost
on EVERY spin in order to get a bonus prize on the come. Clearly, the
game has a higher bet amount (due to the 6th coin) and higher variance
to get that de minimus higher return. Maybe, I shouldn't say anything
since I might be working with IGT soon.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I played wheel poker in Atlantic City and beat it ! Granted, they only have the AC version of bonus poker ( i.e. 6/5 ), but starting with $100, went down to $50 and hit a quad - my bonus spin was 300 coins so cashed out at $150 !!!
Anyway, if your in Reno - a much more exciting game with the high volatility of Wheel, is Super Double Double Bonus found on the 3/5 play "super triple play" machine bank. Its a 99.8% payback roller coaster with a fabulous 6 coin pay schedule. Hows' these apples as found at the Atlantis ?
RF=4000
SF=600
4A/any 234 = 4000
4A/any JQK = 3200
4A= 1600
4JQK/any JQKA=1600
4 234=800
4oak(5-K)=400
FullHouse=40
Flush=25
Straight=20
3oak=15
Jacks+/2pair=5

You can test drive at
http://www.videopoker.com/gamesMember/play/

good luck ....Tom

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "George" <wxmen@sonic.net>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 1:50 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: help needed--Wheel Poker at Silver Legacy

Volatility is what can make a game fun and exciting. For those who
are not trying to make a living playing VP it is a reason to gamble a
few times per year. If casinos offered only low volatility games, I
probably wouldn't even gamble. Consider the difference between JOB
and DDB. Getting dealt 2 aces or even 1 ace) in JOB can at best
result in a 125 coin win (big whoop!), while in DDB there is the
potential for 2000. Wheel Poker gives that added excitement where a
dealt ace or 2 can result in a 4000 coin win and any 4oak can result
in a big win. Too bad Wheel Poker doesn't offer JOB...I just might be
able to find JOB interesting enough to play then.

George

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, James Giroud
<chiefponytailguy@...> wrote:

The June 2008 issue of Strictly Slots magazine has a two page Dancer

article re Wheel Poker strategy adjustments.&nbsp; One quote:&nbsp; "
This puts Bonus Poker Wheel Poker in roughly the same volatility range
as regular Triple Double Bonus Poker.&nbsp; Adding the wheel to
already high volatility games like Double Double Bonus makes the
volatility astronomical."

--- On Fri, 6/6/08, fordscks jason_c_vp@... wrote:

From: fordscks jason_c_vp@...
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: help needed--Wheel Poker at Silver Legacy
To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 6:18 PM

--- In vpFREE_Reno@ yahoogroups. com, GRAYTLEEGRAY@ ... wrote:
&gt; There was a discussion awhile back on the main board. Bob Dancer
chirped in too revealing that no matter what game the Bonus Wheel has
the same frequency of payoffs. The average was like Bonus, where 423
coins/5 coin bet is the break even point.

&gt; So there are strategy changes to the basic paytables to

optimize the

ER. It was pointed out that for wildcard games the bonus feature hurts
the overall payoff, but playing a Jacks or Better style game you can
fine tune the stragegy to help the overall ER.

1. I think people need to understand the conflict of interest between
Dancer and IGT. Dancer is very conflicted in that he gets financially
compensated to write these vp stories in magazines, etc. The saving
grace is IGT is rarely wrong with their vp math so the stats IGT gives
to Dancer so Dancer can share with us is reliable. And, yes these
articles are also conflicted as well but you knew that (think
informacials) .

2. I think IGT's current trend of getting people to pay a 6th coin has
worked in altering people's behavior in vp. I would be very curious to
see the math involved in this game -- my concern is paying a fixed cost
on EVERY spin in order to get a bonus prize on the come. Clearly, the
game has a higher bet amount (due to the 6th coin) and higher variance
to get that de minimus higher return. Maybe, I shouldn't say anything
since I might be working with IGT soon.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links

oops...left out this kicker hand
quad 234/any 234A =1600

···

----- Original Message -----

I played wheel poker in Atlantic City and beat it ! Granted, they only have
the AC version of bonus poker ( i.e. 6/5 ), but starting with $100, went
down to $50 and hit a quad - my bonus spin was 300 coins so cashed out at
$150 !!!
Anyway, if your in Reno - a much more exciting game with the high volatility
of Wheel, is Super Double Double Bonus found on the 3/5 play "super triple
play" machine bank. Its a 99.8% payback roller coaster with a fabulous 6
coin pay schedule. Hows' these apples as found at the Atlantis ?
RF=4000
SF=600
4A/any 234 = 4000
4A/any JQK = 3200
4A= 1600
4JQK/any JQKA=1600
4 234=800
4oak(5-K)=400
FullHouse=40
Flush=25
Straight=20
3oak=15
Jacks+/2pair=5

Sounds like a fun game to play a hundred or 2 in. I'll try it at
Atlantis in August along with Wheel Poker. Thanks.

I played wheel poker in Atlantic City and beat it ! Granted, they

only have

the AC version of bonus poker ( i.e. 6/5 ), but starting with $100,

went

down to $50 and hit a quad - my bonus spin was 300 coins so cashed

out at

$150 !!!
Anyway, if your in Reno - a much more exciting game with the high

volatility

of Wheel, is Super Double Double Bonus found on the 3/5 play "super

triple

play" machine bank. Its a 99.8% payback roller coaster with a

fabulous 6

coin pay schedule. Hows' these apples as found at the Atlantis ?
RF=4000
SF=600
4A/any 234 = 4000
4A/any JQK = 3200
4A= 1600
4JQK/any JQKA=1600
4 234=800
4oak(5-K)=400
FullHouse=40
Flush=25
Straight=20
3oak=15
Jacks+/2pair=5

You can test drive at
http://www.videopoker.com/gamesMember/play/

good luck ....Tom
From: "George" <wxmen@...>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 1:50 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: help needed--Wheel Poker at Silver Legacy

> Volatility is what can make a game fun and exciting. For those who
> are not trying to make a living playing VP it is a reason to gamble a
> few times per year. If casinos offered only low volatility games, I
> probably wouldn't even gamble. Consider the difference between JOB
> and DDB. Getting dealt 2 aces or even 1 ace) in JOB can at best
> result in a 125 coin win (big whoop!), while in DDB there is the
> potential for 2000. Wheel Poker gives that added excitement where a
> dealt ace or 2 can result in a 4000 coin win and any 4oak can result
> in a big win. Too bad Wheel Poker doesn't offer JOB...I just might be
> able to find JOB interesting enough to play then.
>
> George
>
> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, James Giroud
> <chiefponytailguy@> wrote:
>>
>> The June 2008 issue of Strictly Slots magazine has a two page Dancer
> article re Wheel Poker strategy adjustments.&nbsp; One quote:&nbsp; "
> This puts Bonus Poker Wheel Poker in roughly the same volatility range
> as regular Triple Double Bonus Poker.&nbsp; Adding the wheel to
> already high volatility games like Double Double Bonus makes the
> volatility astronomical."
>>
>>
>> From: fordscks jason_c_vp@
>> Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: help needed--Wheel Poker at Silver Legacy
>> To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 6:18 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In vpFREE_Reno@ yahoogroups. com, GRAYTLEEGRAY@ ... wrote:
>> &gt; There was a discussion awhile back on the main board. Bob Dancer
>> chirped in too revealing that no matter what game the Bonus Wheel has
>> the same frequency of payoffs. The average was like Bonus, where 423
>> coins/5 coin bet is the break even point.
>>
>> &gt; So there are strategy changes to the basic paytables to
> optimize the
>> ER. It was pointed out that for wildcard games the bonus feature

hurts

>> the overall payoff, but playing a Jacks or Better style game you can
>> fine tune the stragegy to help the overall ER.
>>
>> 1. I think people need to understand the conflict of interest between
>> Dancer and IGT. Dancer is very conflicted in that he gets financially
>> compensated to write these vp stories in magazines, etc. The saving
>> grace is IGT is rarely wrong with their vp math so the stats IGT

gives

>> to Dancer so Dancer can share with us is reliable. And, yes these
>> articles are also conflicted as well but you knew that (think
>> informacials) .
>>
>> 2. I think IGT's current trend of getting people to pay a 6th

coin has

>> worked in altering people's behavior in vp. I would be very

curious to

>> see the math involved in this game -- my concern is paying a

fixed cost

>> on EVERY spin in order to get a bonus prize on the come. Clearly, the
>> game has a higher bet amount (due to the 6th coin) and higher

variance

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
>> --- On Fri, 6/6/08, fordscks jason_c_vp@ wrote:
>> to get that de minimus higher return. Maybe, I shouldn't say anything
>> since I might be working with IGT soon.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Looks like multi-strike vp would be up your alley -- that game is max
volatility and max vacuum cleaner. As a VP game designer, I can alter
the game to give you max volatility or min volatility. However, at the
end of the day, the **average vp player** wants value for their money
be it entertainment time or excitement for hitting a sizeable jackpot
(which appears to be a fat quad in your case). IGT already turned down
my offer of Million Dollar jackpots for royal flushes (in multiplay
version, i.e. you will get 1 million credits at max play for a ten line
multiply game something NPlay can't do, even with Super Times Pay --
under 10 play, you get 40,000 coins for ten royal flushes and at 10X
STP, you get 400,000 coins -- my game gets you 1,000,000 coins no sweat
and you don't need ten royal flushes on all ten lines without any
multiplier. My game, in theory, can give you vp jackpots like
30,000,000 just like slot machines).

Btw, on $1 progressive 9/6 JOB, I've hit quads at over $220 (reset is
$125) and STFL's easily in the $700 range (reset value of $250) and RF
at $5,600+, etc. I hit that RF jackpot after hitting a STFL for $600
an hour earlier. Just the other night in a neighborhood casino, I took
down a quad jackpot at 39 for 1 (about $195) on a $1 8/5 JOB machine
(STFL were 100 for 1 at reset) within 30 hands. That game had a 1%
meter movement on the three jackpots and sizeable cash back, so it was
a no-brainer. I think at reset, this 8/5 JOB was about 97.8% and I
easily see the STFL get as high as $1,100 -- I recall the STFL was $950
for one bank and $670 for another bank that night.

In Reno area, you can find lots of JOB (maybe at 8/6 or 9/5 or 8/5 pay
table, etc) where they have progressive RF, STFL and quads
respectively. I like the machines in Peppermill (I believe it's 8/6
JOB) where even the Full House is progressive (and I treat the meter
movement as cash back on jackpots that I hit!). Boomtown has a bank of
progressive $1 8/5 Bonus Poker where the quad aces can reach $600 or
more (the breakeven quad aces is $612 with STFL & RF at reset values!).
Boomtown also has progressive quad aces on 8/5 BP at the $0.25 level so
you can cherry pick your machines.

Good luck.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "George" <wxmen@...> wrote:

Volatility is what can make a game fun and exciting. For those who
are not trying to make a living playing VP it is a reason to gamble a
few times per year. If casinos offered only low volatility games, I
probably wouldn't even gamble. Consider the difference between JOB
and DDB. Getting dealt 2 aces or even 1 ace) in JOB can at best
result in a 125 coin win (big whoop!), while in DDB there is the
potential for 2000. Wheel Poker gives that added excitement where a
dealt ace or 2 can result in a 4000 coin win and any 4oak can result
in a big win. Too bad Wheel Poker doesn't offer JOB...I just might be
able to find JOB interesting enough to play then.

George