vpFREE2 Forums

Have casinos finally had enough?

#1

Enough of putting up with winning VP players? Anyone who has played
VP for very long knows that downgrades and cutbacks are just part of
the game. We always have to be scouting for new opportunities,
because existing opportunities are bound to be removed sooner or
later, with the general trend of things getting tougher as time goes
on. However, just within the last few months, there seems to be a
sudden avalanche of cutbacks and other modifications all designed to
make life more difficult for good VP players. This goes beyond the
normal paytable downgrades (which are also still happening). Just to
name a few of the very recent changes:

1) Several casinos have taken the new year as an opportunity to make
big time cutbacks in bounce back offers.

2) One casino I visit has just changed their card reader display so
that the player really doesn't get much useful information at all
from the display.

3) Another major casino which, until now, still offered actual cash
back for points finally joined just about everyone else and went to
free play only. Very few "cash for points" casinos left anymore.
(I realize this is not a huge deal in the overall scheme of things,
but it still makes the points only worth about 99% or so of face
value - depending on how good a game is available to run them
through).

4) One local casino has apparently instituted a policy of
continually "pin locking" players cards. You have to go to the
players club to get your card "unlocked". It's happened to me
multiple times already in January at this same casino. (Thwarts
spouses from collecting each other's free play.)

5) I have heard of more and more casinos that now require a visit to
the players club to "activate" free play. (Same explanation as #4.)

5) A major national chain is suddenly putting some of their biggest
players on the "no mail" list. They have also cut back on their
mail volume in general.

6) One local casino placed a week-long "gap" in their free play at
the beginning of January, effectively cutting their mailer by 25%.
Could be a one-time thing for the holidays - hopefully.

6) More and more casinos seem to be severely punishing players who
stop in without playing (to collect free play, pick up a comp,
whatever), instead of rewarding players for their overall volume of
play. i.e. the Harrah's "trip" concept is spreading.

So, is this type of thing happening all over the country? Do you
think it is cyclical, or more of a permanent trend of casinos
weeding out anyone who they think might be able to win a few
dollars? Do you think "normal" players notice these cuts? Should I
learn how to play live poker :-)?

EE

#2

Rather than post generalities that do not match my experience will you please name specific casinos doing these things?

···

At 10:34 AM 1/19/2009, you wrote:

Enough of putting up with winning VP players? Anyone who has played
VP for very long knows that downgrades and cutbacks are just part of
the game. We always have to be scouting for new opportunities,
because existing opportunities are bound to be removed sooner or
later, with the general trend of things getting tougher as time goes
on. However, just within the last few months, there seems to be a
sudden avalanche of cutbacks and other modifications all designed to
make life more difficult for good VP players. This goes beyond the
normal paytable downgrades (which are also still happening). Just to
name a few of the very recent changes:

1) Several casinos have taken the new year as an opportunity to make
big time cutbacks in bounce back offers.

2) One casino I visit has just changed their card reader display so
that the player really doesn't get much useful information at all
from the display.

3) Another major casino which, until now, still offered actual cash
back for points finally joined just about everyone else and went to
free play only. Very few "cash for points" casinos left anymore.
(I realize this is not a huge deal in the overall scheme of things,
but it still makes the points only worth about 99% or so of face
value - depending on how good a game is available to run them
through).

4) One local casino has apparently instituted a policy of
continually "pin locking" players cards. You have to go to the
players club to get your card "unlocked". It's happened to me
multiple times already in January at this same casino. (Thwarts
spouses from collecting each other's free play.)

5) I have heard of more and more casinos that now require a visit to
the players club to "activate" free play. (Same explanation as #4.)

5) A major national chain is suddenly putting some of their biggest
players on the "no mail" list. They have also cut back on their
mail volume in general.

6) One local casino placed a week-long "gap" in their free play at
the beginning of January, effectively cutting their mailer by 25%.
Could be a one-time thing for the holidays - hopefully.

6) More and more casinos seem to be severely punishing players who
stop in without playing (to collect free play, pick up a comp,
whatever), instead of rewarding players for their overall volume of
play. i.e. the Harrah's "trip" concept is spreading.

So, is this type of thing happening all over the country? Do you
think it is cyclical, or more of a permanent trend of casinos
weeding out anyone who they think might be able to win a few
dollars? Do you think "normal" players notice these cuts? Should I
learn how to play live poker :-)?

EE

------------------------------------

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#3

Enough of putting up with winning VP players? ... However, just

within the last few months, there seems to be a sudden avalanche of
cutbacks and other modifications all designed to make life more
difficult for good VP players. This goes beyond the normal paytable
downgrades (which are also still happening). Just to name a few of
the very recent changes:

I have an idea of where you play from your posts on bj21.com from a
while ago. I can share with you in Reno, which had some of the best
VP games and benefits at one time, the casinos have continued their
trend of creating a vp wasteland similar to Atlantic City. I quit
the Reno scene three years ago because it was that bad - I only did
because the bounce back was a few thousand a month and it was easy to
set up shop and pick up the welfare checks.

Should I learn how to play live poker :-)?

The golden age of blackjack ended a long time ago and the golden age
of slot wonging and video poker ended in about 2002. I would guess
comp hustling ended shortly afterwards since you needed good games to
generate the action. You just have to realize when the going was
good, you made money when you did and if you were smart and
reinvested your profits in other ventures you would be okay today
(not counting the 40% decline in the stock market of 2008). But if
you think the casinos will continue to give out sizeable free money
for you to take advantage of each week or month for the rest of your
life, then you must be in denial. The casinos are a business and
unless they can be profitable, they too will go out of business (have
you ever since how bad it is in Reno when business is slow?). I
wouldn't be suprised if a number of casinos went out of business this
year or next because of the weak economy.

It was fun while it lasted. Good luck in your next venture, be it
live poker or finding sloppy dealers who expose the hole cards in
table games. Once I won a POM on bj21 and I knew it was time to move
on. To each their own.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eecounter" <eecounter@...> wrote:

#4

Without getting specific, I can confirm that EE's points 1 thru 6
have all taken place in a market below the Mason-Dixon line.

Rather than post generalities that do not match my experience will
you please name specific casinos doing these things?

>Enough of putting up with winning VP players? Anyone who has

played

>VP for very long knows that downgrades and cutbacks are just part

of

>the game. We always have to be scouting for new opportunities,
>because existing opportunities are bound to be removed sooner or
>later, with the general trend of things getting tougher as time

goes

>on. However, just within the last few months, there seems to be a
>sudden avalanche of cutbacks and other modifications all designed

to

>make life more difficult for good VP players. This goes beyond the
>normal paytable downgrades (which are also still happening). Just

to

>name a few of the very recent changes:
>
>1) Several casinos have taken the new year as an opportunity to

make

>big time cutbacks in bounce back offers.
>
>2) One casino I visit has just changed their card reader display so
>that the player really doesn't get much useful information at all
>from the display.
>
>3) Another major casino which, until now, still offered actual cash
>back for points finally joined just about everyone else and went to
>free play only. Very few "cash for points" casinos left anymore.
>(I realize this is not a huge deal in the overall scheme of things,
>but it still makes the points only worth about 99% or so of face
>value - depending on how good a game is available to run them
>through).
>
>4) One local casino has apparently instituted a policy of
>continually "pin locking" players cards. You have to go to the
>players club to get your card "unlocked". It's happened to me
>multiple times already in January at this same casino. (Thwarts
>spouses from collecting each other's free play.)
>
>5) I have heard of more and more casinos that now require a visit

to

>the players club to "activate" free play. (Same explanation as

#4.)

>
>5) A major national chain is suddenly putting some of their biggest
>players on the "no mail" list. They have also cut back on their
>mail volume in general.
>
>6) One local casino placed a week-long "gap" in their free play at
>the beginning of January, effectively cutting their mailer by 25%.
>Could be a one-time thing for the holidays - hopefully.
>
>6) More and more casinos seem to be severely punishing players who
>stop in without playing (to collect free play, pick up a comp,
>whatever), instead of rewarding players for their overall volume of
>play. i.e. the Harrah's "trip" concept is spreading.
>
>So, is this type of thing happening all over the country? Do you
>think it is cyclical, or more of a permanent trend of casinos
>weeding out anyone who they think might be able to win a few
>dollars? Do you think "normal" players notice these cuts? Should

I

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

At 10:34 AM 1/19/2009, you wrote:
>learn how to play live poker :-)?
>
>EE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

#5

This is small minds thinking small. The casinos hurt themselves this way. Any time they take away from your playing hurts them and unless you pay 100% perfectly indirectly helps you (You lose less!) Few of us honestly play above 100% even if machines are available. Many of us play above 100% if comps and goodies are counted in. But to the casino the value of the comps and goodies is a lower cost to them as it is below wholesale while we value it at retail. Allowing for the fact that many comps, points, rewards, benefits, vouchers, etc go unused anything they do to require us to leave a machine hurts them!

···

--- On Tue, 1/20/09, hockeystl <vegasstl@charter.net> wrote:
From: hockeystl <vegasstl@charter.net>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Have casinos finally had enough?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 6:36 AM

            Without getting specific, I can confirm that EE's points 1 thru 6

have all taken place in a market below the Mason-Dixon line.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@.. .> wrote:

Rather than post generalities that do not match my experience will

you please name specific casinos doing these things?

At 10:34 AM 1/19/2009, you wrote:

>Enough of putting up with winning VP players? Anyone who has

played

>VP for very long knows that downgrades and cutbacks are just part

of

>the game. We always have to be scouting for new opportunities,

>because existing opportunities are bound to be removed sooner or

>later, with the general trend of things getting tougher as time

goes

>on. However, just within the last few months, there seems to be a

>sudden avalanche of cutbacks and other modifications all designed

to

>make life more difficult for good VP players. This goes beyond the

>normal paytable downgrades (which are also still happening). Just

to

>name a few of the very recent changes:

>

>1) Several casinos have taken the new year as an opportunity to

make

>big time cutbacks in bounce back offers.

>

>2) One casino I visit has just changed their card reader display so

>that the player really doesn't get much useful information at all

>from the display.

>

>3) Another major casino which, until now, still offered actual cash

>back for points finally joined just about everyone else and went to

>free play only. Very few "cash for points" casinos left anymore.

>(I realize this is not a huge deal in the overall scheme of things,

>but it still makes the points only worth about 99% or so of face

>value - depending on how good a game is available to run them

>through).

>

>4) One local casino has apparently instituted a policy of

>continually "pin locking" players cards. You have to go to the

>players club to get your card "unlocked". It's happened to me

>multiple times already in January at this same casino. (Thwarts

>spouses from collecting each other's free play.)

>

>5) I have heard of more and more casinos that now require a visit

to

>the players club to "activate" free play. (Same explanation as

#4.)

>

>5) A major national chain is suddenly putting some of their biggest

>players on the "no mail" list. They have also cut back on their

>mail volume in general.

>

>6) One local casino placed a week-long "gap" in their free play at

>the beginning of January, effectively cutting their mailer by 25%.

>Could be a one-time thing for the holidays - hopefully.

>

>6) More and more casinos seem to be severely punishing players who

>stop in without playing (to collect free play, pick up a comp,

>whatever), instead of rewarding players for their overall volume of

>play. i.e. the Harrah's "trip" concept is spreading.

>

>So, is this type of thing happening all over the country? Do you

>think it is cyclical, or more of a permanent trend of casinos

>weeding out anyone who they think might be able to win a few

>dollars? Do you think "normal" players notice these cuts? Should

I

>learn how to play live poker :-)?

>

>EE

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>----------- --------- --------- -------

>

>vpFREE Links: http://members. cox.net/vpfree/ Links.htm

>

>Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

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