vpFREE2 Forums

Harrahs-is it worth it, going Diamond

#1

I get to drive in 200 miles to Harrahs Laughlin and went Diamond in a
Day the first week of January. Was it worth it...yes!

I have several offers pending at all times, tourneys, outdoor shows,
cash for gas and merchandise. I have done ten two day offers, about
half on weekends.

Harrahs got 2000 tier points from me in January to go Diamond. For
some reason some VP has been acting like slots at $5/point since
November. Currently my tier points are at 3,400 for the year. They
have not got any significant play from me...just dabbling at
bartops. Maybe 10 hours of $5 table games just for fun. Yet the
mail continues to flow for about $20k for the year.

Offers included the Vegas properties, Reno, Rincon, and New Orleans
for two nights and some other benefit, like Earl Turner tickets. I
have yet to play a dime anywhere but Laughlin.

···

****
What has surprised me is how nice the people are at Harrahs
Laughlin. Housekeeping and anyone you make contact with actually say
hello. The Diamond check-in is fantastic. Starting a 8am you can
check-in. If you are not too picky they can give you a room, but at
least get you going in the system. Just pick-up keys later.

The Diamond Lounge is a blessing, especially if going solo. A little
food and some conversation, usually with someone who got off a
plane. Read a newspaper and watch the game on a plasma TV.

Anyway, Laughlin has playable VP unlike Vegas and other properties.
I am really looking forward to see what happens with the Caesars
properties, hoping my status gets me in the door.

Any queries or comments?

BS

#2

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bluestreak86001" <GRAYTLEEGRAY@a...>
wrote:

I get to drive in 200 miles to Harrahs Laughlin and went Diamond in a
Day the first week of January. Was it worth it...yes!
Any queries or comments?

Hey BStreak:

I have a few comments. You mentioned in your post that you're "looking
forward to see what happens with the Caesars properties" and hope "your
(diamond) status" gets you "in the door." Around the campfire here in
Albuquerque (more like 'around the a/c vent') we're looking at it from
the other direction, discussing whether or not NOW is the time to 'go
diamond' at Harrah's since they unfortunately own everything and will
most surely screw up what we believe is an egalitarian and simple to
use player's club, the Caesars Connection. Word is that they won't
change anything for a year, but the clock has already begun ticking.
Between planning to use up most of our Connection comps and definitely
grabbing our cashback on the next trip, we're thinking about diamonds.

The reason is that we like to stay at Caesars or Bally's/Paris or even
Flamingo so we're eventually going to be Total Rewards inductees. The
debate is whether we believe the bar will be raised soon to gain some
preferred status (diamond). Maybe it will be worth it in the short run
if we're going to have to play there anyway. That's the argument for:
the argument against is that if we don't like Harrah's and haven't
stayed or played with them before why bother now when we have so many
choices, even if it means forsaking properties we've been staying and
playing at for years. There is currently no consensus among those with
whom I have been having this discussion. Mostly we wish the NFL would
hurry up and start.

I appreciate your comments about Laughlin--still one of my favorite
places, even though I've avoided the Harrah's there.

Drew

#3

Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much! I'm an extremely LOW roller, but get all kinds of great mailers from them, probably because I play a good bit of table games. I know I did NOT play VP there last time, probably because the charts on this page said they didn't have anything good! If anyone plays blackjack or table games though, it might be worth playing some there. They treat me better than anyone else on the strip ever has!

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "vpdeuces" <vpdeuces@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:03 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Harrahs-is it worth it, going Diamond

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bluestreak86001" <GRAYTLEEGRAY@a...>
wrote:

I get to drive in 200 miles to Harrahs Laughlin and went Diamond in a
Day the first week of January. Was it worth it...yes!
Any queries or comments?

Hey BStreak:

I have a few comments. You mentioned in your post that you're "looking
forward to see what happens with the Caesars properties" and hope "your
(diamond) status" gets you "in the door." Around the campfire here in
Albuquerque (more like 'around the a/c vent') we're looking at it from
the other direction, discussing whether or not NOW is the time to 'go
diamond' at Harrah's since they unfortunately own everything and will
most surely screw up what we believe is an egalitarian and simple to
use player's club, the Caesars Connection. Word is that they won't
change anything for a year, but the clock has already begun ticking.
Between planning to use up most of our Connection comps and definitely
grabbing our cashback on the next trip, we're thinking about diamonds.

The reason is that we like to stay at Caesars or Bally's/Paris or even
Flamingo so we're eventually going to be Total Rewards inductees. The
debate is whether we believe the bar will be raised soon to gain some
preferred status (diamond). Maybe it will be worth it in the short run
if we're going to have to play there anyway. That's the argument for:
the argument against is that if we don't like Harrah's and haven't
stayed or played with them before why bother now when we have so many
choices, even if it means forsaking properties we've been staying and
playing at for years. There is currently no consensus among those with
whom I have been having this discussion. Mostly we wish the NFL would
hurry up and start.

I appreciate your comments about Laughlin--still one of my favorite
places, even though I've avoided the Harrah's there.

Drew

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#4

Harrahs is hated because
1 Their VP is very bad except for a few isolated places.
2. THey trash any good VP when they take-over a location (eg RIO)
3. They are so big they are driving out competition.
4. They treat their employees very poorly (at least at some locations)
5. The minute you find something you like they will change it...
6. Yes. Their mailers are good and if you use they and don't play it is fine because they will send you more. Then after they stop go find a decent VP machine (if any left) play some and then the mailers start again.
7. other reasons......

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cat Denton" <cat@infinitecreation.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:47 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much! I'm an extremely LOW
roller, but get all kinds of great mailers from them, probably because I
play a good bit of table games. I know I did NOT play VP there last time,
probably because the charts on this page said they didn't have anything
good! If anyone plays blackjack or table games though, it might be worth
playing some there. They treat me better than anyone else on the strip ever
has!

----- Original Message ----- From: "vpdeuces" <vpdeuces@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:03 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Harrahs-is it worth it, going Diamond

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bluestreak86001" <GRAYTLEEGRAY@a...>
wrote:

I get to drive in 200 miles to Harrahs Laughlin and went Diamond in a
Day the first week of January. Was it worth it...yes!
Any queries or comments?

Hey BStreak:

I have a few comments. You mentioned in your post that you're "looking
forward to see what happens with the Caesars properties" and hope "your
(diamond) status" gets you "in the door." Around the campfire here in
Albuquerque (more like 'around the a/c vent') we're looking at it from
the other direction, discussing whether or not NOW is the time to 'go
diamond' at Harrah's since they unfortunately own everything and will
most surely screw up what we believe is an egalitarian and simple to
use player's club, the Caesars Connection. Word is that they won't
change anything for a year, but the clock has already begun ticking.
Between planning to use up most of our Connection comps and definitely
grabbing our cashback on the next trip, we're thinking about diamonds.

The reason is that we like to stay at Caesars or Bally's/Paris or even
Flamingo so we're eventually going to be Total Rewards inductees. The
debate is whether we believe the bar will be raised soon to gain some
preferred status (diamond). Maybe it will be worth it in the short run
if we're going to have to play there anyway. That's the argument for:
the argument against is that if we don't like Harrah's and haven't
stayed or played with them before why bother now when we have so many
choices, even if it means forsaking properties we've been staying and
playing at for years. There is currently no consensus among those with
whom I have been having this discussion. Mostly we wish the NFL would
hurry up and start.

I appreciate your comments about Laughlin--still one of my favorite
places, even though I've avoided the Harrah's there.

Drew

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#5

That some consider Harrah's the big green monster is of no concern to me.
Maybe it should be of no concern to you either. Harrah's properties have
their positives and negatives like any other casino, and as with any other
casino I proceed in a way that I deem serves my self interest. There are
times when I consider it in my self interest to stay or play at a Harrah's
property.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Cat Denton
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:47 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much! I'm an extremely LOW
roller, but get all kinds of great mailers from them, probably because I
play a good bit of table games. I know I did NOT play VP there last time,
probably because the charts on this page said they didn't have anything
good! If anyone plays blackjack or table games though, it might be worth
playing some there. They treat me better than anyone else on the strip ever
has!

#6

Thanks, that makes me feel better! I guess I take what's said on here a little too personally sometimes! However, I am here to learn, and I guess I've learned alot about Harrahs! Thanks to you and Brian for the informative and unabrasive explanation! tee hee!

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "ednar" <ednar@kconline.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

Harrahs is hated because
1 Their VP is very bad except for a few isolated places.
2. THey trash any good VP when they take-over a location (eg RIO)
3. They are so big they are driving out competition.
4. They treat their employees very poorly (at least at some locations)
5. The minute you find something you like they will change it...
6. Yes. Their mailers are good and if you use they and don't play it is fine
because they will send you more. Then after they stop go find a decent VP
machine (if any left) play some and then the mailers start again.
7. other reasons......

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cat Denton" <cat@infinitecreation.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:47 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much! I'm an extremely
LOW
roller, but get all kinds of great mailers from them, probably because I
play a good bit of table games. I know I did NOT play VP there last time,
probably because the charts on this page said they didn't have anything
good! If anyone plays blackjack or table games though, it might be worth
playing some there. They treat me better than anyone else on the strip
ever
has!

----- Original Message ----- From: "vpdeuces" <vpdeuces@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:03 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Harrahs-is it worth it, going Diamond

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bluestreak86001" <GRAYTLEEGRAY@a...>
wrote:

I get to drive in 200 miles to Harrahs Laughlin and went Diamond in a
Day the first week of January. Was it worth it...yes!
Any queries or comments?

Hey BStreak:

I have a few comments. You mentioned in your post that you're "looking
forward to see what happens with the Caesars properties" and hope "your
(diamond) status" gets you "in the door." Around the campfire here in
Albuquerque (more like 'around the a/c vent') we're looking at it from
the other direction, discussing whether or not NOW is the time to 'go
diamond' at Harrah's since they unfortunately own everything and will
most surely screw up what we believe is an egalitarian and simple to
use player's club, the Caesars Connection. Word is that they won't
change anything for a year, but the clock has already begun ticking.
Between planning to use up most of our Connection comps and definitely
grabbing our cashback on the next trip, we're thinking about diamonds.

The reason is that we like to stay at Caesars or Bally's/Paris or even
Flamingo so we're eventually going to be Total Rewards inductees. The
debate is whether we believe the bar will be raised soon to gain some
preferred status (diamond). Maybe it will be worth it in the short run
if we're going to have to play there anyway. That's the argument for:
the argument against is that if we don't like Harrah's and haven't
stayed or played with them before why bother now when we have so many
choices, even if it means forsaking properties we've been staying and
playing at for years. There is currently no consensus among those with
whom I have been having this discussion. Mostly we wish the NFL would
hurry up and start.

I appreciate your comments about Laughlin--still one of my favorite
places, even though I've avoided the Harrah's there.

Drew

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

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Yahoo! Groups Links

#7

Sure this is a good place. And feel free to like Harrah's. I do like them for some stuff. It just gets to be less and less as time goes on. :slight_smile:

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cat Denton" <cat@infinitecreation.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

Thanks, that makes me feel better! I guess I take what's said on here a
little too personally sometimes! However, I am here to learn, and I guess
I've learned alot about Harrahs! Thanks to you and Brian for the informative
and unabrasive explanation! tee hee!

----- Original Message ----- From: "ednar" <ednar@kconline.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

Harrahs is hated because
1 Their VP is very bad except for a few isolated places.
2. THey trash any good VP when they take-over a location (eg RIO)
3. They are so big they are driving out competition.
4. They treat their employees very poorly (at least at some locations)
5. The minute you find something you like they will change it...
6. Yes. Their mailers are good and if you use they and don't play it is
fine
because they will send you more. Then after they stop go find a decent VP
machine (if any left) play some and then the mailers start again.
7. other reasons......

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cat Denton" <cat@infinitecreation.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:47 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much! I'm an extremely
LOW
roller, but get all kinds of great mailers from them, probably because I
play a good bit of table games. I know I did NOT play VP there last time,
probably because the charts on this page said they didn't have anything
good! If anyone plays blackjack or table games though, it might be worth
playing some there. They treat me better than anyone else on the strip
ever
has!

----- Original Message ----- From: "vpdeuces" <vpdeuces@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:03 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Harrahs-is it worth it, going Diamond

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bluestreak86001" <GRAYTLEEGRAY@a...>
wrote:

I get to drive in 200 miles to Harrahs Laughlin and went Diamond in a
Day the first week of January. Was it worth it...yes!
Any queries or comments?

Hey BStreak:

I have a few comments. You mentioned in your post that you're "looking
forward to see what happens with the Caesars properties" and hope "your
(diamond) status" gets you "in the door." Around the campfire here in
Albuquerque (more like 'around the a/c vent') we're looking at it from
the other direction, discussing whether or not NOW is the time to 'go
diamond' at Harrah's since they unfortunately own everything and will
most surely screw up what we believe is an egalitarian and simple to
use player's club, the Caesars Connection. Word is that they won't
change anything for a year, but the clock has already begun ticking.
Between planning to use up most of our Connection comps and definitely
grabbing our cashback on the next trip, we're thinking about diamonds.

The reason is that we like to stay at Caesars or Bally's/Paris or even
Flamingo so we're eventually going to be Total Rewards inductees. The
debate is whether we believe the bar will be raised soon to gain some
preferred status (diamond). Maybe it will be worth it in the short run
if we're going to have to play there anyway. That's the argument for:
the argument against is that if we don't like Harrah's and haven't
stayed or played with them before why bother now when we have so many
choices, even if it means forsaking properties we've been staying and
playing at for years. There is currently no consensus among those with
whom I have been having this discussion. Mostly we wish the NFL would
hurry up and start.

I appreciate your comments about Laughlin--still one of my favorite
places, even though I've avoided the Harrah's there.

Drew

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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Yahoo! Groups Links

#8

Hi Cat:

I certainly don't speak for anyone in the group but myself. We
don't all hate Harrah's but, for reasons well documented in
subsequent posts, they don't work for everyone. If you're getting
good offers from them and enjoy staying there, that's great! You
will certainly have an advantage when the integration of systems is
completed.

I am personally sad to see Caesars under Harrah's management and I
hope they will leave it alone. For what it's worth, almost all the
dealers and other employees I talked to on my last trip to Bally's
seem to think Harrah's will be better for them. It's certainly
better to play where the employees are happy.

Thanks for your posts!

Drew

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cat Denton" <cat@i...> wrote:

Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much!

#9

Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much!

I doubt that vp players actually hate Hurrah's,vp players are always
looking for their favorite vp games of which are lacking at Hurrah's,
so what happens is the information is made known on these types of
forums, knowledge is power, or at least it points you in the right
direction, and most of us have a finite amount of time to be visiting
casinos and looking at all the vp machines in a casino and checking
pay tables, so when some one posts a report on the vp inventoried in
Harrah's it probably saves a vp player a wasted trip, I doubt
seriously if any one on this forum cares where anyone else on this
forum plays and how they spend their money, I suppose it is possible
to play at Harrah's and if they comp your room, food and drink and
give you some cash back to figure out what it is worth dollar wise
and then check the pay table on the vp machine and find out what the
vp machine pays back, then make an informed decision about whether to
play or not, personally I would play at Harrah's if conditions are
right, if they offer something at the minimum 99.54% payback and a
room comp! It is probably to our advantage to reward casinos that
have good machine, if you play them and spend money in there casinos
they might put in more decent machine, if Hurrah/s can make a lot of
money on poor machines, then they won't change for the better, vote
with your dollars.

Al

#10

8. They neeeeeeeeeeever give you a straaaaight answer on how to accumulate points.
ednar <ednar@kconline.com> wrote:Harrahs is hated because
7. other reasons......

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cat Denton" <cat@infinitecreation.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:47 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much! I'm an extremely
LOW
> playing some there. They treat me better than anyone else on the strip
ever
has!

----- Original Message -----
From: "vpdeuces" <vpdeuces@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:03 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Harrahs-is it worth it, going Diamond

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bluestreak86001" <GRAYTLEEGRAY@a...>
wrote:

?

hurry up and start.

I appreciate your comments about Laughlin--still one of my favorite
places, even though I've avoided the Harrah's there.

Drew

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#11

Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much! I'm an

extremely LOW

roller, but get all kinds of great mailers from them, probably

because I

play a good bit of table games. I know I did NOT play VP there

last time,

probably because the charts on this page said they didn't have

anything

good! If anyone plays blackjack or table games though, it might be

worth

playing some there. They treat me better than anyone else on the

strip ever

has!

Cat

Can only really speak about Vegas games but if you play blackjack at
Harrah's in Vegas the only table with decent rules are in the high
limit area. Otherwise you are stuck with a h-17 garbage game.
Now the Rio is a special case. The can bragg having the worst game
in all North America and I would guess the world in their Bikini
Pit. My opinion, any casino that thinks their players are stupid
enough to play blackjack where a natural pays only 1 to 1 has
nothing but utter contempt for their players. Whatever extra comps
you get, you and the other table players as a group are paying
dearly for them and that is why they are making so much money.
I can also add that Harrah's Rincon in San Diego County, CA, has a
poor game compared to several other San Diego and Riverside County
casinos.
What I give them credit for is having world class upper management
and fantastic marketing and it is all designed to take your money
quickly while fostering loyalty.
I would expect they will kill of the good blackjack at Caesar's
within the next few months. Flamingo already has no good blackjack
and Paris is fair at best.
Victoria

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cat Denton" <cat@i...> wrote:

#12

8. They neeeeeeeeeeever give you a straaaaight answer on how to

accumulate points.

ednar <ednar@k...> wrote:Harrahs is hated because
7. other reasons......

I am late to this thread due to being out of town, but Harrahs is very
clear about how to accumulate points.

with all VP machines $10 in coin in = 1 tier credit and 1 base reward
credit, and depending on which location and which machine an unknown
amount of bonus RCs. I dont know about every Harrahs, but every one
that I have been to that has a playable game has worked exactly this
way. (although I do know of some machines that pay double tier points
and some others that pay double cash back.... not for public
distribution) As always casinos vary by local market, and to be sure,
Harrahs is not usually the one that leads the market in great EV
games, but sometimes they are the best game in town.

Happy Royals
Jim

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Robert Romanyshyn <bobfpdw@y...> wrote:

#13

On the other hand, any players that willingly play at these tables
deserve to have their money removed from their wallet, as it would
seem they have "contempt" for said money. Part of a casinos business
is to sell bets. If a place can mark-up the price of their goods or
services without losing sales, wouldn't you do it too?

Smart players will go elsewhere. Fortunately (at least for the
casinos), there are far more not-so-smart players.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Victoria Rosado" <ros4144@y...> wrote:

Can only really speak about Vegas games but if you play blackjack at
Harrah's in Vegas the only table with decent rules are in the high
limit area. Otherwise you are stuck with a h-17 garbage game.
Now the Rio is a special case. The can bragg having the worst game
in all North America and I would guess the world in their Bikini
Pit. My opinion, any casino that thinks their players are stupid
enough to play blackjack where a natural pays only 1 to 1 has
nothing but utter contempt for their players.

Victoria

#14

Yuck! I haven't seen those tables at the Rio, but I certainly wouldn't touch them with a 10-ft. pole, nor would I ever play a 6/5 BJ game.

On the other hand (and I know that many of you will be clutching your chests when you hear this) I do willingly, and with full knowledge of the huge house edge, play 3-card, Caribbean Stud, & Boston 5 for the sheer enjoyment of it! Just because someone chooses to play a negative game now and then doesn't make them stupid. It's like spending money on a show or a fancy dinner or something; it's about comraderie, fun & entertainment value. I certainly would not try to make a living playing these games! ha ha!

However, as far as video poker goes, I'd rather chew off my arm than extend it toward a machine that wasn't full pay! I guess I have sort of a double standard?

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <fromthevault@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 12:07 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

On the other hand, any players that willingly play at these tables
deserve to have their money removed from their wallet, as it would
seem they have "contempt" for said money. Part of a casinos business
is to sell bets. If a place can mark-up the price of their goods or
services without losing sales, wouldn't you do it too?

Smart players will go elsewhere. Fortunately (at least for the
casinos), there are far more not-so-smart players.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Victoria Rosado" <ros4144@y...> wrote:

Can only really speak about Vegas games but if you play blackjack at
Harrah's in Vegas the only table with decent rules are in the high
limit area. Otherwise you are stuck with a h-17 garbage game.
Now the Rio is a special case. The can bragg having the worst game
in all North America and I would guess the world in their Bikini
Pit. My opinion, any casino that thinks their players are stupid
enough to play blackjack where a natural pays only 1 to 1 has
nothing but utter contempt for their players.

Victoria

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#15

Charles

You are so correct it is sad. I think at some time I said that
Harrah's has made a fortune by never underestimating the stupidity
of their clientel, and you basically said the same thing.

A little Bikini Pit math:
Every advanced blackjack book says you will average 4 blackjacks per
hour. This is based upon about 80 hands per hour but many games are
dealt slower and closer to 60 hands. So if we say you will average
3 blackjacks per hour and in my case, my average bet is $100, in one
hour I would get in REAL blackjack 3 naturals paying a total of $450
but if I wanted my dealer to be wearing a bikini I only get $300 for
the same hands. That trade off costs me $150 per hour and I average
20 hours of blackjack on a Vegas trip, so for the priveledge of
seeing what I could see at the pool for FREE, I would pay $150X20 or
$3,000 for seeing at the table. Ridiculous and yet these tables are
constantly played and Harrah's rings their cash register, but I
guess you could say if you are dumb enough to play it you deserve
what you get. It is my hope to convince at least a few people not
to play.

A good single deck game house advantage .18%
A good double deck game house advantage .24%
A good 6 deck shoe game house advantage .26%
Harrah's non high limit shoe advantage .56%
6/5 single deck house advantage 1.45%-1.75%
Bikini pit at the Rio house advantage 2.75% or more than 10 times
worse than a shoe game at MGM's S-17 pits, Caesars, Trop $25 tables,
Luxor, and several other places.
Victoria

On the other hand, any players that willingly play at these tables
deserve to have their money removed from their wallet, as it would
seem they have "contempt" for said money. Part of a casinos

business

is to sell bets. If a place can mark-up the price of their goods

or

services without losing sales, wouldn't you do it too?

Smart players will go elsewhere. Fortunately (at least for the
casinos), there are far more not-so-smart players.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Victoria Rosado" <ros4144@y...>

wrote:

> Can only really speak about Vegas games but if you play

blackjack at

> Harrah's in Vegas the only table with decent rules are in the

high

> limit area. Otherwise you are stuck with a h-17 garbage game.
> Now the Rio is a special case. The can bragg having the worst

game

> in all North America and I would guess the world in their Bikini
> Pit. My opinion, any casino that thinks their players are

stupid

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@y...> wrote:

> enough to play blackjack where a natural pays only 1 to 1 has
> nothing but utter contempt for their players.

> Victoria

#16

Bikini pit at the Rio house advantage 2.75% or more than 10 times
worse than a shoe game at MGM's S-17 pits, Caesars, Trop $25 tables,
Luxor, and several other places.

But...you get to see boobies? That's gotta be worth $25 an hour or so, right?

/eyeroll

#17

Yuck! I haven't seen those tables at the Rio, but I certainly

wouldn't touch

them with a 10-ft. pole, nor would I ever play a 6/5 BJ game.

On the other hand (and I know that many of you will be clutching

your chests

when you hear this) I do willingly, and with full knowledge of the

huge

house edge, play 3-card, Caribbean Stud, & Boston 5 for the sheer

enjoyment

of it! Just because someone chooses to play a negative game now

and then

doesn't make them stupid. It's like spending money on a show or a

fancy

dinner or something; it's about comraderie, fun & entertainment

value. I

certainly would not try to make a living playing these games! ha

ha!

However, as far as video poker goes, I'd rather chew off my arm

than extend

it toward a machine that wasn't full pay! I guess I have sort of a

double

standard?

Playing Caribbean Stud or 3CP, house edge and all is really not the
same as playing the bikini pit. You will find only small
differences between casinos on your games and if you like them play
them. They are social games and go much slower than blackjack, so
your money may also last longer. Also in those games you could get
lucky and hit a huge payout on one hand, hit 4 of a kind or better
and it is like a slot payout. At the bikini pit there is no payout
bigger than 1x1 because if you double it is still the same, just
2x2. Personally it is standard and expected within the casino
business that a game with a large possible payout for a single lucky
hand, should have a larger house edge than a game with no jackpots.
If you look around it is generally true, blackjack, craps and
bacarat have the lowest house edges on table games and no jackpots.
Roullett, 3CP and Carribbean all have payouts similar to jackpots
and bigger edges.
Victoria

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cat Denton" <cat@i...> wrote:

#18

In addition...

Even Keno got downgraded at the Rio after Harrahs bought it.
$1 8-spot used to pay $50,000.00
Now, it only pays $30,000.00

...just one example.

Charles

You are so correct it is sad. I think at some time I said that
Harrah's has made a fortune by never underestimating the stupidity
of their clientel, and you basically said the same thing.

A little Bikini Pit math:
Every advanced blackjack book says you will average 4 blackjacks

per

hour. This is based upon about 80 hands per hour but many games

are

dealt slower and closer to 60 hands. So if we say you will average
3 blackjacks per hour and in my case, my average bet is $100, in

one

hour I would get in REAL blackjack 3 naturals paying a total of

$450

but if I wanted my dealer to be wearing a bikini I only get $300

for

the same hands. That trade off costs me $150 per hour and I

average

20 hours of blackjack on a Vegas trip, so for the priveledge of
seeing what I could see at the pool for FREE, I would pay $150X20

or

$3,000 for seeing at the table. Ridiculous and yet these tables

are

constantly played and Harrah's rings their cash register, but I
guess you could say if you are dumb enough to play it you deserve
what you get. It is my hope to convince at least a few people not
to play.

A good single deck game house advantage .18%
A good double deck game house advantage .24%
A good 6 deck shoe game house advantage .26%
Harrah's non high limit shoe advantage .56%
6/5 single deck house advantage 1.45%-1.75%
Bikini pit at the Rio house advantage 2.75% or more than 10

times

worse than a shoe game at MGM's S-17 pits, Caesars, Trop $25

tables,

Luxor, and several other places.
Victoria

> On the other hand, any players that willingly play at these

tables

> deserve to have their money removed from their wallet, as it

would

> seem they have "contempt" for said money. Part of a casinos
business
> is to sell bets. If a place can mark-up the price of their goods
or
> services without losing sales, wouldn't you do it too?
>
> Smart players will go elsewhere. Fortunately (at least for the
> casinos), there are far more not-so-smart players.
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Victoria Rosado" <ros4144@y...>
wrote:
>
> > Can only really speak about Vegas games but if you play
blackjack at
> > Harrah's in Vegas the only table with decent rules are in the
high
> > limit area. Otherwise you are stuck with a h-17 garbage game.
> > Now the Rio is a special case. The can bragg having the worst
game
> > in all North America and I would guess the world in their

Bikini

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Victoria Rosado" <ros4144@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@y...> wrote:
> > Pit. My opinion, any casino that thinks their players are
stupid
> > enough to play blackjack where a natural pays only 1 to 1 has
> > nothing but utter contempt for their players.
>
> > Victoria

#19

I really think it's a matter of recognizing Harrahs for what they are, and using them to our advantage. I play just enough to keep the free rooms coming and that is all. The majority of my play goes to the casinos who are more generous.

I'll keep this up until they catch on and stop giving me free rooms. So far so good though.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: ednar
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

  Sure this is a good place. And feel free to like Harrah's. I do like them
  for some stuff. It just gets to be less and less as time goes on. :slight_smile:

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Cat Denton" <cat@infinitecreation.com>
  To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

  > Thanks, that makes me feel better! I guess I take what's said on here a
  > little too personally sometimes! However, I am here to learn, and I guess
  > I've learned alot about Harrahs! Thanks to you and Brian for the
  > informative
  > and unabrasive explanation! tee hee!
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "ednar" <ednar@kconline.com>
  > To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
  > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:14 AM
  > Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?
  >
  >
  >> Harrahs is hated because
  >> 1 Their VP is very bad except for a few isolated places.
  >> 2. THey trash any good VP when they take-over a location (eg RIO)
  >> 3. They are so big they are driving out competition.
  >> 4. They treat their employees very poorly (at least at some locations)
  >> 5. The minute you find something you like they will change it...
  >> 6. Yes. Their mailers are good and if you use they and don't play it is
  >> fine
  >> because they will send you more. Then after they stop go find a decent VP
  >> machine (if any left) play some and then the mailers start again.
  >> 7. other reasons......
  >>
  >> ----- Original Message -----
  >> From: "Cat Denton" <cat@infinitecreation.com>
  >> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
  >> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:47 AM
  >> Subject: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?
  >>
  >>
  >>> Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much! I'm an extremely
  >>> LOW
  >>> roller, but get all kinds of great mailers from them, probably because I
  >>> play a good bit of table games. I know I did NOT play VP there last
  >>> time,
  >>> probably because the charts on this page said they didn't have anything
  >>> good! If anyone plays blackjack or table games though, it might be worth
  >>> playing some there. They treat me better than anyone else on the strip
  >>> ever
  >>> has!
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> ----- Original Message -----
  >>> From: "vpdeuces" <vpdeuces@yahoo.com>
  >>> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
  >>> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:03 PM
  >>> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Harrahs-is it worth it, going Diamond
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bluestreak86001" <GRAYTLEEGRAY@a...>
  >>>> wrote:
  >>>>> I get to drive in 200 miles to Harrahs Laughlin and went Diamond in a
  >>>>> Day the first week of January. Was it worth it...yes!
  >>>>> Any queries or comments?
  >>>>
  >>>> Hey BStreak:
  >>>>
  >>>> I have a few comments. You mentioned in your post that you're "looking
  >>>> forward to see what happens with the Caesars properties" and hope "your
  >>>> (diamond) status" gets you "in the door." Around the campfire here in
  >>>> Albuquerque (more like 'around the a/c vent') we're looking at it from
  >>>> the other direction, discussing whether or not NOW is the time to 'go
  >>>> diamond' at Harrah's since they unfortunately own everything and will
  >>>> most surely screw up what we believe is an egalitarian and simple to
  >>>> use player's club, the Caesars Connection. Word is that they won't
  >>>> change anything for a year, but the clock has already begun ticking.
  >>>> Between planning to use up most of our Connection comps and definitely
  >>>> grabbing our cashback on the next trip, we're thinking about diamonds.
  >>>>
  >>>> The reason is that we like to stay at Caesars or Bally's/Paris or even
  >>>> Flamingo so we're eventually going to be Total Rewards inductees. The
  >>>> debate is whether we believe the bar will be raised soon to gain some
  >>>> preferred status (diamond). Maybe it will be worth it in the short run
  >>>> if we're going to have to play there anyway. That's the argument for:
  >>>> the argument against is that if we don't like Harrah's and haven't
  >>>> stayed or played with them before why bother now when we have so many
  >>>> choices, even if it means forsaking properties we've been staying and
  >>>> playing at for years. There is currently no consensus among those with
  >>>> whom I have been having this discussion. Mostly we wish the NFL would
  >>>> hurry up and start.
  >>>>
  >>>> I appreciate your comments about Laughlin--still one of my favorite
  >>>> places, even though I've avoided the Harrah's there.
  >>>>
  >>>> Drew
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
  >>
  >>
  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >
  >
  >
  > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
  >
  >
  > Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    a.. Visit your group "vpFREE" on the web.
      
    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
     vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#20

It will work for years..... Or at least it has. :slight_smile:

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrin" <dtculver@mhcable.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

I really think it's a matter of recognizing Harrahs for what they are, and using them to our advantage. I play just enough to keep the free rooms coming and that is all. The majority of my play goes to the casinos who are more generous.

I'll keep this up until they catch on and stop giving me free rooms. So far so good though.

----- Original Message ----- From: ednar
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

Sure this is a good place. And feel free to like Harrah's. I do like them
for some stuff. It just gets to be less and less as time goes on. :slight_smile:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cat Denton" <cat@infinitecreation.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?

> Thanks, that makes me feel better! I guess I take what's said on here a
> little too personally sometimes! However, I am here to learn, and I guess
> I've learned alot about Harrahs! Thanks to you and Brian for the
> informative
> and unabrasive explanation! tee hee!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ednar" <ednar@kconline.com>
> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?
>
>> Harrahs is hated because
>> 1 Their VP is very bad except for a few isolated places.
>> 2. THey trash any good VP when they take-over a location (eg RIO)
>> 3. They are so big they are driving out competition.
>> 4. They treat their employees very poorly (at least at some locations)
>> 5. The minute you find something you like they will change it...
>> 6. Yes. Their mailers are good and if you use they and don't play it is
>> fine
>> because they will send you more. Then after they stop go find a decent VP
>> machine (if any left) play some and then the mailers start again.
>> 7. other reasons......
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Cat Denton" <cat@infinitecreation.com>
>> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:47 AM
>> Subject: [vpFREE] Boy, y'all guys really hate Harrahs, don't you?
>>
>>> Wow! I didn't realize everyone hated Harrah's so much! I'm an extremely
>>> LOW
>>> roller, but get all kinds of great mailers from them, probably because I
>>> play a good bit of table games. I know I did NOT play VP there last
>>> time,
>>> probably because the charts on this page said they didn't have anything
>>> good! If anyone plays blackjack or table games though, it might be worth
>>> playing some there. They treat me better than anyone else on the strip
>>> ever
>>> has!
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "vpdeuces" <vpdeuces@yahoo.com>
>>> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:03 PM
>>> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Harrahs-is it worth it, going Diamond
>>>
>>>> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bluestreak86001" <GRAYTLEEGRAY@a...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I get to drive in 200 miles to Harrahs Laughlin and went Diamond in a
>>>>> Day the first week of January. Was it worth it...yes!
>>>>> Any queries or comments?
>>>>
>>>> Hey BStreak:
>>>>
>>>> I have a few comments. You mentioned in your post that you're "looking
>>>> forward to see what happens with the Caesars properties" and hope "your
>>>> (diamond) status" gets you "in the door." Around the campfire here in
>>>> Albuquerque (more like 'around the a/c vent') we're looking at it from
>>>> the other direction, discussing whether or not NOW is the time to 'go
>>>> diamond' at Harrah's since they unfortunately own everything and will
>>>> most surely screw up what we believe is an egalitarian and simple to
>>>> use player's club, the Caesars Connection. Word is that they won't
>>>> change anything for a year, but the clock has already begun ticking.
>>>> Between planning to use up most of our Connection comps and definitely
>>>> grabbing our cashback on the next trip, we're thinking about diamonds.
>>>>
>>>> The reason is that we like to stay at Caesars or Bally's/Paris or even
>>>> Flamingo so we're eventually going to be Total Rewards inductees. The
>>>> debate is whether we believe the bar will be raised soon to gain some
>>>> preferred status (diamond). Maybe it will be worth it in the short run
>>>> if we're going to have to play there anyway. That's the argument for:
>>>> the argument against is that if we don't like Harrah's and haven't
>>>> stayed or played with them before why bother now when we have so many
>>>> choices, even if it means forsaking properties we've been staying and
>>>> playing at for years. There is currently no consensus among those with
>>>> whom I have been having this discussion. Mostly we wish the NFL would
>>>> hurry up and start.
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate your comments about Laughlin--still one of my favorite
>>>> places, even though I've avoided the Harrah's there.
>>>>
>>>> Drew
>>>>
>>>> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>
>>> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>
>> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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   a.. Visit your group "vpFREE" on the web.

   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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