vpFREE2 Forums

Harrah's Backrooms and Trespasses 86 year old Great Grandmother

#1

My understanding is that Nevada law allows casinos to "trespass" anyone for no reason, as long as it isn't discriminatory as to race, ethicity, etc. My understanding is that most other states are different.

Therefore, if one is barred in Nevada for a reason that they disagree with, it doesn't really matter, because they don't need a reason.

You can probably challenge the trespass in Nevada courts, and will likely be unsuccessful. In other states, it may not hold up.

Challenging the action by PR via picketing or the papers is probably the only way to beat it; the casino must change its mind, and will likely do so with conditions ("you can come in and play xx and yy, but not VP").

"Barring" was the reason I gave up card-counting / blackjack. Takes the fun out of beating the casino. Personally, I'd only fuss with a casino that barred me if I was a pro. If I had "benefits" coming to me from my play, I would need to accept their players' card conditions, which say they can change or cancel the program at anytime, and can probably do so for individuals as well as everyone. It's like fighting the airlines, where I flew a lot and earned "free upgrades" -- recently went to Geneva Switzerland and my upgrade from coach was miles -- plus $850!!! So much for free -- and could not persuade customer service, with whom I talked for a half hour, that this was bad PR.

When I was playing blackjack, I have gone back to casinos where I was barred, usually months to years later -- and have usually been recognized (and realized it - I am also alert to what's going on, just like them -- and gotten out of the joint before they fussed about it). If you're playing for comps, you need a players card, and that makes it easier for them to enforce the barring.

We may not like Nevada law, almost the entire public thinks it's absurd and unfair, including me -- but that's the law in Nevada nevertheless, and it's not likely to be changed by the legislature or the courts there. It becomes like any other law that we might not personally like -- you have to live with it, or face the consequences. For me, the consequences aren't usually worth the fuss.

--BG

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#2

I don't see why there's all this fuss about anyone being barred or run out or trespassed FROM CASINOS of all places! If you can't go in one then there's plenty of others waiting for you to walk thru their doors.

Nothing lasts forever anywhere and people should be aware of that. Just shrug it off and continue enjoying whatever it is that you like to do. Why some folks need to load up their lives with issues is beyond me. And picketing or crying foul to the media? What a waste of time. If people have nothing more important to do than picket something....

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Barry Glazer <b.glazer@...> wrote:

My understanding is that Nevada law allows casinos to "trespass" anyone for no reason, as long as it isn't discriminatory as to race, ethicity, etc. My understanding is that most other states are different.

#3

I don't see why there's all this fuss about anyone being barred or run out or trespassed FROM CASINOS of all places! If you can't go in one then there s plenty of others waiting for you to walk thru their doors.

In this day and age, good plays are hard to find. Losing even one can make a big difference to today's advantage player. Presumably anyone reading this forum is at least interested in getting good value from their gambling dollar and even that is not so easy to find these days.

Nothing lasts forever anywhere and people should be aware of that. Just shrug it off and continue enjoying whatever it is that you like to do. Why some folks need to load up their lives with issues is beyond me. And picketing or crying foul to the media? What a waste of time. If people have nothing more important to do than picket something....

Yeah, why object. Its better to just bend over and take it.

Its all a matter of degree and highly subjective. If someone
threw an egg at your home, you might choose to simply clean it
up. But if someone were to throw rocks through your windows on
a daily basis, its likely your live and let live approach would
be set aside and replaced by actions intended to alter the
offending behavior. Just where to draw this line is highly
subjective.

Sometimes the principle of an issue will make a seemingly poor
use of time worthwhile.

Casinos have taken their right to trespass undesirables into
realms that are beyond reason. The idea of offering a game
and only allowing the morons to play is reprehensible. And
in some jurisdictions (not controlled by the gaming interests)
the courts have agreed.

When casinos control all aspects of the game, including whom
they wish to send promotional offers, trespassing is not only
overly zealous, its downright stupid.

>
> My understanding is that Nevada law allows casinos to "trespass" anyone for no reason, as long as it isn't discriminatory as to race, ethicity, etc. My understanding is that most other states are different.

And just how would one prove the motivation for trespassing. It
could be argued that any non white, not straight, not "whatever" person who is barred is barred as a result of discrimination.
And conversely, if I, as a casino owner, decided I wanted to
discriminate, I could easily fall back on this law. About the
only way this could go wrong is if I barred ALL members of some
protected group.

What this means is that the law allowing a business to trespass
for any reason is a bad law. Can you imagine a grocery store
being allowed to kick me out for bringing too many coupons?
As long as I behave myself, a business that invites the public
should be required to provide just cause for barring.

And in fact, given the very lame justifications given by
Harrahs in Tunica, it appears that jurisdiction does require
a reason for a trespass. But clearly Harrah's is abusing this situation by focusing on behavior that is essentially harmless and most likely is widespread among other patrons who continue to be invited into Harrah's.

As much as I despise the overly litigious nature of our society,
I would love to see Harrah's lose a large suit here. The reason for this is rooted in the idea that business will ALWAYS base their decisions on the risk-reward balance. As it stands now, business of all kinds take major liberties and even willfully break laws simply because there is little or no punishment to deter them. Draconian penalties for such corporate actions are the ONLY way to make corporations feel inclined to "play nice".

The level of such abuses in this country is very high. If
nobody bothers to take a stand, these things never change.

QZ

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Barry Glazer <b.glazer@> wrote:

#4

<what7do7you7want@...> wrote:

What this means is that the law allowing a business to trespass
for any reason is a bad law. Can you imagine a grocery store
being allowed to kick me out for bringing too many coupons?

That's exactly the case. A grocery store is allowed to refuse you service if they so choose. It's illegal only if the refusal is based on race, religion, etc etc.

Off-hand, when someone does the difficult and risk-filled work of creating and running a business, I'd say they deserve a lot of latitude in how they run it, as long as they don't do stuff like assault, theft, or lying.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

#5

The right to refuse service goes back to 16th century English law. A man's home is his castle, and by extension so is his business.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "RandomStu" <sresnick2@...> wrote:

<what7do7you7want@> wrote:
> What this means is that the law allowing a business to trespass
> for any reason is a bad law. Can you imagine a grocery store
> being allowed to kick me out for bringing too many coupons?

#6

But I don't think the grocery store is going to pressure the 86 year old coupon clipper into going into the milk cooler so they can then intimidate her while demanding ID and other personal information before stating she's no longer welcome to shop at their store....

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "RandomStu" <sresnick2@...> wrote:

<what7do7you7want@> wrote:
> What this means is that the law allowing a business to trespass
> for any reason is a bad law. Can you imagine a grocery store
> being allowed to kick me out for bringing too many coupons?

That's exactly the case. A grocery store is allowed to refuse you service if they so choose. It's illegal only if the refusal is based on race, religion, etc etc.

#7

Well, actually grocery stores HAVE done that, or rather close to that. So
have drug stores and mass merchandisers..they have not allowed couponers to
shop in their store as they are "habitual" coupon users.

Lisa

<what7do7you7want@...> wrote:

What this means is that the law allowing a business to trespass
for any reason is a bad law. Can you imagine a grocery store
being allowed to kick me out for bringing too many coupons?

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