I see no reason why anyone should play at Hard Rock over the next two months. Horrible video poker. Horrible cash back. No point multipliers. A terrible shopping promotion due to ridiculously high coin in requirements.
Hard Rock LV
why limit it to just the next two months? Is there change afoot?
JW
···
--- On Mon, 10/12/09, vegasvpplayer <vegasvpplayer@gmail.com> wrote:
From: vegasvpplayer <vegasvpplayer@gmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Hard Rock LV
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 11:01 AM
I see no
reason why anyone should play at Hard Rock over the next two
months. Horrible video poker. Horrible cash
back. No point multipliers. A terrible shopping
promotion due to ridiculously high coin in requirements.------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
mailto:vpFREE-fullfeatu...@...com
Ideally, the return of point multipliers and good promotions.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:
why limit it to just the next two months? Is there change afoot?
It seems that those of you who live in Las Vegas have forgotten in a way what the city is meant to represent to the world at large.
I live near Disneyland and therefore I might complain about their high admission, about how certain rides might be closed, and/or about other things - yet Disneyland is an icon that people love to visit from all over the world - and they want to see the "magic" there.
Las Vegas has that same quality to the world at large: a lavish playground with wonderful restaurants, beautiful hotels, shows and gambling. Those of you who have retired in Vegas come to this list and complain, complain, complain about how stupid management is (for not setting their video poker machines at full pay so that the locals can be satisfied); about how they won't give this or that property their business (because they were denied a $10.00 comp or a free buffet); about how stupid other players are who aren't playing perfectly. I understand that you spend lots of hours and lots of your money playing but I find it annoying to hear the constant complaining about a city which is SO much fun to visit, and the serious way in which so many of you act like the management of all these huge casinos have nothing more to worry about than all of you.
Personally, I love to play - I play poker and video poker - and I'll choose the best pay schedules I can whereever I am - but I love coming to Vegas and I'm sorry that those of you who moved there are now so bitter.
Valerie
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I don't think anyone could have said it any better than you Valerie.
I agree with you 100%.
···
________________________________
From: Valerie Pollard <vpollard@socal.rr.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 2:58:48 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Two Things Going On
It seems that those of you who live in Las Vegas have forgotten in a way what the city is meant to represent to the world at large.
I live near Disneyland and therefore I might complain about their high admission, about how certain rides might be closed, and/or about other things - yet Disneyland is an icon that people love to visit from all over the world - and they want to see the "magic" there.
Las Vegas has that same quality to the world at large: a lavish playground with wonderful restaurants, beautiful hotels, shows and gambling. Those of you who have retired in Vegas come to this list and complain, complain, complain about how stupid management is (for not setting their video poker machines at full pay so that the locals can be satisfied); about how they won't give this or that property their business (because they were denied a $10.00 comp or a free buffet); about how stupid other players are who aren't playing perfectly. I understand that you spend lots of hours and lots of your money playing but I find it annoying to hear the constant complaining about a city which is SO much fun to visit, and the serious way in which so many of you act like the management of all these huge casinos have nothing more to worry about than all of you.
Personally, I love to play - I play poker and video poker - and I'll choose the best pay schedules I can whereever I am - but I love coming to Vegas and I'm sorry that those of you who moved there are now so bitter.
Valerie
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http://www.eset…com
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------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would agree 100%, but unfortunately the 100% agreeing full pay tables were recently moved out and replaced with 98.6% agreeing paytables. Damn...everytime we turn around it is something else!!! Go get'em Valerie!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
···
--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Richard Long <carlboy101@yahoo.com> wrote:
I don't think anyone could have said it any better than you Valerie. I agree with you 100%.
"I would agree 100%, but unfortunately the 100% agreeing full pay tables were recently moved out and replaced with 98.6% agreeing paytables. Damn...everytime we turn around it is something else!!! "
Ha! That is so funny - thanks for that. And thanks to those of you who are agreeing with me - I've been thinking about this for a long time and haven't known exactly how I wanted to channel it....didn't want to spout a bunch of negative, hostile stuff *too much*.
Valerie
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Not all of us share your love for sitting in front of a video terminal for hours on end in an unhealthy smokey environment, and accepting negative ev situations in which losing money is inevitable.
Losing money is not something everybody loves, although the casinos are thankful for customers like you.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie Pollard" <vpollard@...> wrote:
It seems that those of you who live in Las Vegas have forgotten in a way what the city is meant to represent to the world at large.
I live near Disneyland and therefore I might complain about their high admission, about how certain rides might be closed, and/or about other things - yet Disneyland is an icon that people love to visit from all over the world - and they want to see the "magic" there.
Las Vegas has that same quality to the world at large: a lavish playground with wonderful restaurants, beautiful hotels, shows and gambling. Those of you who have retired in Vegas come to this list and complain, complain, complain about how stupid management is (for not setting their video poker machines at full pay so that the locals can be satisfied); about how they won't give this or that property their business (because they were denied a $10.00 comp or a free buffet); about how stupid other players are who aren't playing perfectly. I understand that you spend lots of hours and lots of your money playing but I find it annoying to hear the constant complaining about a city which is SO much fun to visit, and the serious way in which so many of you act like the management of all these huge casinos have nothing more to worry about than all of you.
Personally, I love to play - I play poker and video poker - and I'll choose the best pay schedules I can whereever I am - but I love coming to Vegas and I'm sorry that those of you who moved there are now so bitter.
Valerie
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valerie,
Really well said. And while I think the 100% VP camp is living in fantasy land, things have gotten much worse than less than 100% VP. Keep in mind, nobody is yelling at Bellagio for not having 100% games, it is not expected because the people who patronize Bellagio are those tourists you mention. But casinos like Rampart have only one market - locals, so then the issue change - nobody is flying in from Florida to see the Rampart casino or the Marriott attached to it because it looks just like the Marriotts near you.
Also when hotel revenues and gaming revenues were going up double digit, why shouldn't the casinos tighten up, it is supply and demand. But now both those things are falling double digit, so the astute businessperson would loosen up not tighten up, but astute these people are not.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie Pollard" <vpollard@...> wrote:
It seems that those of you who live in Las Vegas have forgotten in a way what the city is meant to represent to the world at large.
I live near Disneyland and therefore I might complain about their high admission, about how certain rides might be closed, and/or about other things - yet Disneyland is an icon that people love to visit from all over the world - and they want to see the "magic" there.
Las Vegas has that same quality to the world at large: a lavish playground with wonderful restaurants, beautiful hotels, shows and gambling. Those of you who have retired in Vegas come to this list and complain, complain, complain about how stupid management is (for not setting their video poker machines at full pay so that the locals can be satisfied); about how they won't give this or that property their business (because they were denied a $10.00 comp or a free buffet); about how stupid other players are who aren't playing perfectly. I understand that you spend lots of hours and lots of your money playing but I find it annoying to hear the constant complaining about a city which is SO much fun to visit, and the serious way in which so many of you act like the management of all these huge casinos have nothing more to worry about than all of you.
Personally, I love to play - I play poker and video poker - and I'll choose the best pay schedules I can whereever I am - but I love coming to Vegas and I'm sorry that those of you who moved there are now so bitter.
Valerie
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"Not all of us share your love for sitting in front of a video terminal for hours on end in an unhealthy smokey environment, and accepting negative ev situations in which losing money is inevitable. Losing money is not something everybody loves, although the casinos are thankful for customers like you
.
Is this in reply to my email? Since it seems not to relate to anything that I said in it. And I do find it perplexing that someone who is on a board for video poker criticizes anyone who loses money, since that is a given in any sort of gambling, 100% payback or not.
I do love the resentful, rude attitude expressed in it though, so entertaining.
In case it was directed at my previous post, I would have to say that the point was that Las Vegas is *more* than sitting in front of a smokey video poker monitor...oh well, can't expect everyone to understand basic, simple writing.
Valerie
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Personally, I love to play - I play poker and video poker - and I'll choose the best pay schedules I can whereever I am - but I love coming to Vegas and I'm sorry that those of you who moved there are now so bitter.
Valerie
...Heck I've never moved to Vegas and I'm still bitter...
MO
Valerie:
While I don't live in LV, I'm afraid your logic is still lost on me, and I suspect most people who play VP regularly. Like I'm not happy when fuel prices increase at my local gas station and I'm not happy when my favorite restaurant raises their prices, I'm not happy when I go to the casino and find that the game I have been playing as a part of my entertainment is going cost more now because of a paytable change or a change in the cashback policy, or comps. In each of these cases I'm paying more and I'm getting less. It don't rationalize that it's ok because the fuel station or restaurant are somehow "special" to me. I'm still simply getting less and paying more.
If I really didn't care what it cost, I would not spend time practicing VP, scouting out VP plays and I certainly wouldn't spend time on this board. That's why this board and this site exist--to help people maximize their VP play. And while I see carping about downgrades, it's not by any means the majority of the traffic here. And when it does happen, not to be unexpected given the point of this board and those here is to maximize their play.
To me LV is still the opportunity to play with the best possible odds driven by the fact that there is competition for the gambling dollar that you really don't find anywhere else. That's what is special to me.
rob
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie Pollard" <vpollard@...> wrote:
It seems that those of you who live in Las Vegas have forgotten in a way what the city is meant to represent to the world at large....
Personally, I love to play - I play poker and video poker - and I'll choose the best pay schedules I can whereever I am - but I love coming to Vegas and I'm sorry that those of you who moved there are now so bitter.
Valerie
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jw776655 wrote:
···
Not all of us share your love for sitting in front of a video terminal for hours on end in an unhealthy smokey environment, and accepting negative ev situations in which losing money is inevitable.
--------
That situation is not exactly being forced on you. No one is making you do that in any shape manner or form except yourself.
Rob wrote
"If I really didn't care what it cost, I would not spend time practicing VP, scouting out VP plays and I certainly wouldn't spend time on this board. That's why this board and this site exist--to help people maximize their VP play."
Hi Rob,
My post was meant very specifically to apply to those posters who continually are complaining about everything in Las Vegas. Your points are well-taken and I agree with you. Sometimes the venue of email can make it difficult to explain things the same as you would in person. This board should exist to discuss strategy and good plays in video poker, as well as a forum for trip reports, etc.
And I also agree with whoever stated that certain casinos (they mentioned the Ramparts) target local players - I wasn't referring to those casinos either, just to be clear. I was referring to the "tourist" casinos that make up what the world sees as "Las Vegas". It finally annoyed me enough after reading so many endless comments about the Venetian, Wynn, etc that I wrote. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but it does get old after a while.
Valerie
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Just another perspective, but I look at the posts as venting in frustration.
And I can emphasize. My local Midwest casinos still have good pay tables
and they comp the things I care about. My Las Vegas strip casinos have made
their pay tables less entertaining AND their comp programs less generous.
If I've got a travel at least 4 hours each way to get less, it's a lot less
enjoyable from the onset. And for a three day trip without some part of the
"magic" still in tact, it becomes pointless to go. Sure, some trips you run
cold. And all of sudden you realize that the nice dinner you had comp'd was
$2000/person instead of its actual cost. But when you add the cost of a
regular vacation to your typical VP session bankroll for Vegas due to the
ability to play balls-to-the-wall for 15 hours at a time, the elasticity
curve of going versus staying becomes a disappointment. And ultimately, I'm
going to stay home or go someplace, gasp, non-gambling oriented. Or spend a
much smaller portion of my bankroll in a three hour day trip at my local
casino - which do have better odds and where the travel overhead isn't a
factor in my experience.
The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that for the non-Vegans, like
myself, every trip that my husband and I take, we tend to have other people
join us. One year, this was over 10 trips to Vegas. And at least one of
those trips included about 30 people. I can't tell you how many "bachelor
parties" I've helped to arrange so the guys can blow off some steam. We make
the most of Vegas when we're there and other people want to see Vegas with
us as their tour guides. But those people tend to think that VP isn't as
much fun as we do, so they play lower EV, typical touristy games and tend to
pay full price for their rooms, etc. By not taking the best possible care
of us, the strip casinos are losing out on their ideal demographic and
highest profit margin customers (bored, slightly inebriated, males 25-50,
with disposable income to blow).
Friends, co-workers, etc. are still asking when the next time we're going to
go to Vegas, but now the answer is more "Eh, don't know. Not really feeling
it lately." It'll take a really great event, a really good clear marketing
offer, or an overall change/reversal in policy to make me want to make Vegas
weekends a priority again. And while I am sure the hidden marketing execs
who read the forum are not going to all of a sudden decide that we're all so
super special that we should be treated like it's the late 90s with
everything being sunshine, lollipops, and endless money growing off of every
tree, they should take a better look at the compound effects of economic
elasticity vs. their product mix vs. market substitutions.
That's just my $2's worth. Until the effects of the current economy and the
rapid growth of Vegas shake out, I'm just going to have to think about
vacation planning and destination choices a little harder than I did last
year, because apparently THERE ARE other places to go on vacation than Las
Vegas. 
Valerie,
Well written and good perspective.
It is important for us to keep updated on changes in VP at the various locations so we can all make informed choices on current conditions.But then armed with the info,we all make our own choices factoring in ALL the things we are looking for in regards to our VP play.It's not just paytables and comps calculations for those of us that are visitors-there are other non-financial,feel-good considerations.Even if we are getting less than optimal whatever-we are doing it with full knowledge and making our choices based on what WE enjoy.
I value the info that comes from the members here.I then use the data in the way that makes the most sense for ME and my objectives when I play VP.
Thanks
Diane
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Gamblers In Training <kc42223@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2009 5:50 pm
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Two Things Going On
--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Richard Long <carlboy101@yahoo.com> wrote:
?
I don't think anyone could have said it any better than you Valerie.? I agree with you 100%.
?
?
I would agree 100%, but unfortunately the 100% agreeing full pay tables were recently moved out and replaced with 98.6% agreeing paytables.? Damn...everytime we turn around it is something else!!!? Go get'em Valerie!!!?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"and accepting negative ev situations in which losing money is inevitable.
Losing money is not something everybody loves, although the casinos are thankful for customers like you."
And they're plenty thankful to those who find and play full pay VP and still lose consistently.
"And they're plenty thankful to those who find and play full pay VP and still lose consistently."
I think there can be a certain mindset which makes you feel "protected" in some way when you're playing a full pay machine....you know you're getting the best odds so perhaps you feel that you can play longer or more. However, that darn element of luck can change everything as we all know. And as some mathmatically inclined have stated here, those odds are based on the long run anyway, and the long run is a much longer run than most of us will make. Of course if you're lucky enough to hit lots of full houses and flushes than it's all for the better...but that's not always the case.
So I would agree, the casinos are thankful also for those who shovel money into full pay machines as well, and just hope they don't get lucky.
Valerie
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Other than Bob Dancer, who almost always plays perfectly, most players have a significant error rate on real machings in a real environment (quite different from the simulator programs) which they forget to take into account and which generally eliminates any potential overlay.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie Pollard" <vpollard@...> wrote:
So I would agree, the casinos are thankful also for those who shovel money into full pay machines as well, and just hope they don't get lucky.