vpFREE2 Forums

Hard Rock $1 and $2 NSUD Spin Poker in new high limit lounge - 1 machine

I was at the Hard Rock a few times over the weekend
and noticed a $1/$2 Spin Poker machine that had NSUD
on it in the new high limit lounge next to the
sportsbook. Everytime I was there, it was the only
machine being played in the lounge and it was being
played by some recognizable faces.

The 5X points on Friday probably didn't hurt either.

Please add this game to the Hard Rock listing although
I have a feeling it isn't going to be around much
longer.

Bill
Palms Moderator

···

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<<I was at the Hard Rock a few times over the weekend
and noticed a $1/$2 Spin Poker machine that had NSUD
on it in the new high limit lounge next to the
sportsbook.>>

It is not NSUD - it is a 9-15 rather than 10-16. Unless they changed it after Feb. 29th???

···

________________
Jean $�ott
http://queenofcomps.com/

New blog taking the place of
Frugal Fridays. Go to
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/
and click on "Frugal Vegas."

Hey, Bill...I checked out ALL the multilines in the lounge, and they
were all ugly ducks. As it was, none of the upgrades took place until
early Sat morning, when Morgans Hotel Group became the sole operator
of the HR.

Vegas being Vegas, if you could play this with a .5% card, you'd never
see the game.

Now, Bill, I'm curious. Would you play this, if, say, only the $2
denom were NSUD? You see where I'm going with this, right?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Wild Bill <wcimo@...> wrote:

I was at the Hard Rock a few times over the weekend
and noticed a $1/$2 Spin Poker machine that had NSUD
on it in the new high limit lounge next to the
sportsbook. Everytime I was there, it was the only
machine being played in the lounge and it was being
played by some recognizable faces.

The 5X points on Friday probably didn't hurt either.

Please add this game to the Hard Rock listing although
I have a feeling it isn't going to be around much
longer.

On a trip to the Hard Rock last night, went to check out the status of
this play and it has been downgraded to 15/9/4/4.

It has been very interesting since I posted this play. I have
received private email from people thanking me, from big players who
want to "cut" me in on plays if I share with them and keep it quiet,
and other big players who are pissed that I outed a play because this
is how they make their living. Some of the big players you would be
familiar with and some I don't know and neither do any of my VP
friends. So there are lurkers out there who come out when the sun is
shining brightly.

My intent is to keep plays public if and when I find them. Others
have shared their plays with the group and me so I will do the same.

Bill
Palms Moderator

The play lasted, what?, a week?, after you outed it. Was that your
intention?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "wcimo" <wcimo@...> wrote:

My intent is to keep plays public if and when I find them.

My intent is not to end a play but to share so that
everybody gets the same information and opportunity.

Bill
Palms Moderator
--- nightoftheiguana2000

···

<nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "wcimo" <wcimo@...>
wrote:
> My intent is to keep plays public if and when I
find them.

The play lasted, what?, a week?, after you outed it.
Was that your
intention?

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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1) I don't believe the play ever existed, and Mr. Bill had a
hallucination. Since I checked out the same machines that Mr. Bill
did, if it wasn't his hallucination, it must have been mine. But,
gentle reader, do read on/...

2) I know the amateurs and wannabes are jealous of the professionals,
and this is their way of getting even with those who actually can make
money playing machines. Assuming the play did exist (see above),
consider this a victory for you.

3) Many of those with Mr. Bill's mindset just never ever consider that
in 99.9% of the circumstances, the casino never intended to put in
such a game. All such a post does is wise up the casino, many suits
read VPFree.

4) There will always be one in every crowd. You just can't convince
these folk that their approach is absolutely the wrong one. Thank God
most of those "ones" live in Vegas, or someplace where I have very
little equity invested.

4a) Most of those with the same mindset as Mr. Bill saved the casinos
countless sums of money in the 90s by giving them a decent enough
tutorial in protecting blackjack games via posting on sites like BJ21.
I see the same thing happening here. Slot ops suits in the larger
casinos make over $100K/year, before profit sharing. Let them figure
out on their own where the holes are in the casino, ok?

5) Since virtually everyone here, save for a handful of members, are
quarter and dollar players, I see no purpose in outing a play most
would consider too risky for their bankroll. Again, see (2).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "wcimo" <wcimo@...> wrote:

On a trip to the Hard Rock last night, went to check out the status of
this play and it has been downgraded to 15/9/4/4.

It has been very interesting since I posted this play. I have
received private email from people thanking me, from big players who
want to "cut" me in on plays if I share with them and keep it quiet,
and other big players who are pissed that I outed a play because this
is how they make their living. Some of the big players you would be
familiar with and some I don't know and neither do any of my VP
friends. So there are lurkers out there who come out when the sun is
shining brightly.

My intent is to keep plays public if and when I find them. Others
have shared their plays with the group and me so I will do the same.

My turn to respond...

You are correct, this is not a play that I would play
- too many dollars on a spin for my gaming bankroll.

No hallucination on my part. If you asked a me a few
years ago, I couldn't have told you the difference
between paytables or even what a paytable is. I
verified the information at least three times over the
past weekend. Next time, I guess I will use my camera
phone for thee of little faith.

I'm hardly jealous of the pros. I think it is great
if you can make a living at something you enjoy doing.

I agree that it was a mistake or they would have had
it on every machine but again my belief is that this
board is for sharing information with everybody - not
just those who can profit the most from it.

If the Hard Rock benefitted from it, then good for
them. If somebody hit some royals or deuces, good for
them.

Since you didn't like that I exposed this play to the
world, should I just have released this information to
you and the handful of lurkers who want to cut me in

···

on it? Hardly fair to the rest of the group. --- paladingamingllc <paladingamingllc@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "wcimo" <wcimo@...>
wrote:
>
> On a trip to the Hard Rock last night, went to
check out the status of
> this play and it has been downgraded to 15/9/4/4.

>
> It has been very interesting since I posted this
play. I have
> received private email from people thanking me,
from big players who
> want to "cut" me in on plays if I share with them
and keep it quiet,
> and other big players who are pissed that I outed
a play because this
> is how they make their living. Some of the big
players you would be
> familiar with and some I don't know and neither do
any of my VP
> friends. So there are lurkers out there who come
out when the sun is
> shining brightly.
>
> My intent is to keep plays public if and when I
find them. Others
> have shared their plays with the group and me so I
will do the same.

1) I don't believe the play ever existed, and Mr.
Bill had a
hallucination. Since I checked out the same machines
that Mr. Bill
did, if it wasn't his hallucination, it must have
been mine. But,
gentle reader, do read on/...

2) I know the amateurs and wannabes are jealous of
the professionals,
and this is their way of getting even with those who
actually can make
money playing machines. Assuming the play did exist
(see above),
consider this a victory for you.

3) Many of those with Mr. Bill's mindset just never
ever consider that
in 99.9% of the circumstances, the casino never
intended to put in
such a game. All such a post does is wise up the
casino, many suits
read VPFree.

4) There will always be one in every crowd. You just
can't convince
these folk that their approach is absolutely the
wrong one. Thank God
most of those "ones" live in Vegas, or someplace
where I have very
little equity invested.

4a) Most of those with the same mindset as Mr. Bill
saved the casinos
countless sums of money in the 90s by giving them a
decent enough
tutorial in protecting blackjack games via posting
on sites like BJ21.
I see the same thing happening here. Slot ops suits
in the larger
casinos make over $100K/year, before profit sharing.
Let them figure
out on their own where the holes are in the casino,
ok?

5) Since virtually everyone here, save for a handful
of members, are
quarter and dollar players, I see no purpose in
outing a play most
would consider too risky for their bankroll. Again,
see (2).

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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So, if the internet eliminates all advantage play, you don't have a
problem with that? If you were a casino manager, and you were made
aware that a certain internet blog claims there is an advantage play
(a loss to the casino) in your casino, what would you do?

In a lot of ways, video poker players, just like blackjack players
before them, are their own worst enemies. They seem to be of the
opinion that casinos really don't mind if they can beat the casino. I
remember novice blackjack players being incredulous that casinos could
actually bar them once they learned how to correctly count cards, or
novice video poker players being 86'd for using a strategy chart, etc.

You people really need to get a clue, the casino does not want to be
beat, and it will take action to prevent getting beat, both legal and
illegal. If you want to beat the casino, out of either money or comps,
you will have to be discreet about it. Telling all your friends or
publishing a play on the internet is not at all discreet.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Wild Bill <wcimo@...> wrote:

I agree that it was a mistake or they would have had
it on every machine but again my belief is that this
board is for sharing information with everybody - not
just those who can profit the most from it.
If the Hard Rock benefitted from it, then good for
them.

In the case of limited machines, if everybody gets the information,
nobody gets the opportunity.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Wild Bill <wcimo@...> wrote:

My intent is not to end a play but to share so that
everybody gets the same information and opportunity.

In Game Theory, the problem is called "The Prisoner's Dilemma".
http://www.google.com/search?q="Prisoner's+dilemma"
Counter to western individualistic philosophy, the optimal strategy is
obtained only when all players are considered.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

In Game Theory, the problem is called "The Prisoner's Dilemma".
http://www.google.com/search?q="Prisoner's+dilemma"
Counter to western individualistic philosophy, the optimal strategy is
obtained only when all players are considered.

That analogy is flawed. The "Prisoners' Dilemma" dynamic only works

for one iteration. The actual situation of VpFree is analogous to
multiple iterations, where a cooperative strategy is shown to be
optimal for all players.

Then what am I? I am happy when anyone wins...professionals included. I play for fun and perks and stay ahead that way. I really enjoy the free vacations and never expect to earn an income from playing. This is just my fun in life. After raising a large family, I never expected to travel so much and this is a real kick:) Not everyone is jealous or a wannabe, most just want to have some fun.

>
> On a trip to the Hard Rock last night, went to check out the status of
> this play and it has been downgraded to 15/9/4/4.
>
> It has been very interesting since I posted this play. I have
> received private email from people thanking me, from big players who
> want to "cut" me in on plays if I share with them and keep it quiet,
> and other big players who are pissed that I outed a play because this
> is how they make their living. Some of the big players you would be
> familiar with and some I don't know and neither do any of my VP
> friends. So there are lurkers out there who come out when the sun is
> shining brightly.
>
> My intent is to keep plays public if and when I find them. Others
> have shared their plays with the group and me so I will do the same.

1) I don't believe the play ever existed, and Mr. Bill had a
hallucination. Since I checked out the same machines that Mr. Bill
did, if it wasn't his hallucination, it must have been mine. But,
gentle reader, do read on/...

2) I know the amateurs and wannabes are jealous of the professionals,
and this is their way of getting even with those who actually can make
money playing machines. Assuming the play did exist (see above),
consider this a victory for you.

3) Many of those with Mr. Bill's mindset just never ever consider that
  in 99.9% of the circumstances, the casino never intended to put in
such a game. All such a post does is wise up the casino, many suits
read VPFree.

4) There will always be one in every crowd. You just can't convince
these folk that their approach is absolutely the wrong one. Thank God
most of those "ones" live in Vegas, or someplace where I have very
little equity invested.

4a) Most of those with the same mindset as Mr. Bill saved the casinos
countless sums of money in the 90s by giving them a decent enough
tutorial in protecting blackjack games via posting on sites like BJ21.
I see the same thing happening here. Slot ops suits in the larger
casinos make over $100K/year, before profit sharing. Let them figure
out on their own where the holes are in the casino, ok?

5) Since virtually everyone here, save for a handful of members, are
quarter and dollar players, I see no purpose in outing a play most
would consider too risky for their bankroll. Again, see (2).

···

paladingamingllc <paladingamingllc@yahoo.com> wrote: --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "wcimo" <wcimo@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

2) I know the amateurs and wannabes are jealous of the professionals,
and this is their way of getting even with those who actually can

make

money playing machines. Assuming the play did exist (see above),
consider this a victory for you.

This is so, so, so very funny. Jealousy. Right. LOL.

Do you really think that we, the unworthy who put less than $1

million coin-in per session, live in jealous envy of all you bottom-
feeding pros? That there is something ENVIABLE about your lifestyle?
Sure, you make money, but you accomplish NOTHING--you skulk from casino
to casino, hoping to find positive EV plays that have escaped the
casino's detection, sniping and snarling at anyone who you imagine is
threatening your lonely and stressed-out lifestyle. JEALOUS? "Need to
get even"? Here's a news flash--ANYONE with a few functioning brain
cells and some money in his pocket can make money at VP. It just ain't
all that arcane of an art. Rent a PO box, live in a trailer, sign up
for every slot club in existence, and play ndless hours at 0.7% plus
comps, promos, and bounceback. Not all that difficult, and not all that
desirable an existence.

<<That analogy is flawed. The "Prisoners' Dilemma" dynamic only works
for one iteration. The actual situation of VpFree is analogous to
multiple iterations, where a cooperative strategy is shown to be
optimal for all players.>>

Highly inaccurate. Highly.

Cogno

extensive and erudite knowledge of game theory. The optimal strategy
for a collective is cooperation; the optimal strategy for one vs. one
is "tit-for-tat". Perhaps you are confusing the two.

Highly disappointing. Highly.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@...> wrote:

<<That analogy is flawed. The "Prisoners' Dilemma" dynamic only works
for one iteration. The actual situation of VpFree is analogous to
multiple iterations, where a cooperative strategy is shown to be
optimal for all players.>>

Highly inaccurate. Highly.

And here I was hoping that you would thereby enlighten us with your

WHEW! That was a lot of reading (so far at least).

It is amazing what one will read when one gets up a bit early and has
nothing better to do.

<smile> BL

"nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

In Game Theory, the problem is called "The Prisoner's Dilemma".
http://www.google.com/search?q="Prisoner's+dilemma"
Counter to western individualistic philosophy, the optimal
strategy is obtained only when all players are considered.

An optimal strategy has been found for multiple iterations of
Prisoner's Dilema. It's fascinating to consider how it relates to
other games, including the big game of life.

Inflexible cooperation or non-cooperation are both inferior
strategies. Years ago, game theorist thought that the optimal
strategy was "Tit for Tat." You start off cooperating... and then
after that, you always do precisely what the other guy did in the
last iteration. As long as he cooperates, you cooperate. When he
stops cooperating, he's immediately "punished" because you stop too.
He thus "learns" to follow the cooperative strategy that benefits
everyone.

But in fact we now know an even better strategy, known as "Modified
Tit for Tat." It's the exact same as "Tit for Tat"... except that
when you find yourself in a period of non-cooperation, rather than
waiting for the other guy to make the first move, you OCCASIONALLY
cooperate, to test the reaction. If the other guy cooperates on the
next round, then you continue. If he doesn't, you go back to non-
cooperation for a while.

The success of Tit for Tat demonstrates how understanding karma leads
to successful strategizing. The greater success of Modified Tit for
Tat demonstrates that throwing a little causeless compassion into the
mix makes for an even more effective strategy.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html